Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hello, all. My name is John, and I’m a new poster to this forum But many of you know my wife Diane, who posts under the username Maximutt. Our dog is an almost nine year old Lab/Husky mix Max, who was diagnosed with osteosarcoma became a Tripawd just before Thanksgiving of 2008. He was in remission for almost a year, but now the lung mets have appeared, and the last round of chemo had no effect. We’ve made the decision to stop his treatments and just let him be a happy dog for as long as he has left.
But things aren’t going quite like we expected. Although Max had a great time at a recent Tripawd gathering the Saturday after Christmas in Santa Barbara, he hasn’t been well since then. He was eating ravenously prior to the last dose of chemo, but now he turns away from foods he normally would have wolfed down. We have to entice him with cooked ground beef, chicken breasts, and cottage cheese. Dog food is completely out of the picture at this point. And there are some mornings that we have to convince him to eat at all. We’re starting to worry about what we’re going to do if he loses interest in even these things. Why have his tastes changed so dramatically in such a short span of time?
He’s also been running a bit of a fever since last Monday (two days after the Santa Barbara gathering). His lower eyelids started to droop at that time as well, and though the fever broke a few days ago, they’re still drooping. His gums are still nice and pink, but it’s obvious he’s not feeling 100%.
The biggest problem is that we don’t know if this is the result of the cancer’s buildup, the chemo, or some unrelated fever issue. Our vet’s best guess is “maybe” to any of them. We spent the last year reading about symptoms on this forum, where the dog would start wheezing, coughing or panting excessively as the mets grew. That’s what we thought would be the symptoms, aside from tiring out sooner than he used to, Max is doing none of those things. He still gets excited and energetic as soon as he thinks we’re going for a walk or out to play (although each play period is shorter than the last). But then our vet told us that each dog is different, and it may well be that Max won’t show the particular symptoms we thought we’d see.
So that’s our biggest issue at the moment. We were so convinced that we’d have a ton of warning and buildup of symptoms before the end, and now we find ourselves looking at him and wondering if he’s going to go any day now just because he isn’t showing the normal signs of the last stages. I think we could cope with it one way or another if we knew whether this is just a temporary stumbling block that he’ll get over or if it’s the beginning of the end. But the uncertainty is very difficult. We both work day shifts, and we’re getting nervous about leaving him.
So for all of you who are going or have gone through this, what were your experiences with similar situations?
John & Diane
I have nothing to add that will help with your questions, but having one of the remaining November 2008 tripawds, I feel the need to offer you support as you fight through this. Many good thoughts from us to you.
Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul. Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.
Hi John
Of course everyone knows and loves Maximutt! He is famous! (And some of us who were in SB last week also met you).
I won't speak to your main questions, since Tazzie did not have lung mets. But I bet Yoda and Tika and Batgirl (formerly known as Caira Sue) will pipe up. Your story sounds a bit reminiscent of chemo related issues such as infections, mentioned by Oslo and a few others.
So I have a couple of questions for you. When exactly was the last chemo? Is there any chance his blood counts got low enough to get an infection, and was Max put on antibiotics after he got the fever? Did he go to the vet when he got the fever?
Susan of Tazzie
Hi Susan. Max's last chemo treatment (Vincristine) was on December 15. His doctor also had us start giving him Fosamax every day at that point, hoping that it would discourage cancer from spreading anywhere else in his bones. He started losing interest in his food a few days later, which we initially wrote of as a side-effect of chemo. But when it didn't improve, we called the hospital and asked if the Fosamax might have something to do with it. They said it was possible that such high doses could be affecting his appetite, so we stopped giving it to him on Xmas eve.
Blood counts have been mostly good, excepting an elevated white blood cell count last Monday when Di took him in to have the fever checked. The vet put him on antibiotics Monday, which we gave him until New Year's day. We know antibiotics can make a dog feel bad even as they're curing the infection, so we stopped them once the fever broke.
Hi Maxidad
Did you finish the full course of antibiotics the vet gave to Max? It sounds like he was only on them for 4 days, and normally it is essential to run the antibiotics for 7 to 10 days. If you took him off early, an infection might have taken hold. (Sorry, I am probably stating the obvious.) I am hoping Oslo is back in town, for he has a bit of experience fighting chemo-related infections that were a bit hard to kick. It has only been two weeks since you stopped that heavy chemo regime, so certainly it might be related to chemo.
Did they do scans to check for mets anywhere else such as the liver or the bones?
Susan
I'm sorry that you and Maximutt are going through all this right now... I know it must be so scary. We all would freak over any new symptom... is this the end? So, I can't really give you any great advice... As your vet said... his symptoms may be due to many different things, not necessarily the cancer. So, it could be just an infection after the chemo and low WBC's... Stay on the antibiotics until they're finished.
In the meantime... just love him, spoil him... none of us ever really knew when the end was near... until it was upon us. Then you have some like Raven, who seemed to be at death's door, and miraculously came back... So just hang in there...
My thoughts and prayers are with you... hoping that Maximutt bounces back from his latest setback... Sending you all a big fat hug!!!!
Angel Jake's Mom
Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!
Hi John - I'm so sorry to hear of the symptoms that Max is having. I can only echo what Marguerite said about loving him, spoiling and just treasuring your moments...we just never know and things happen suddenly and sometimes not so suddenly. Zeus was never diagnosed with lung mets and he had been a 17 month survivor! I did not expect to lose Zeus 5 days after I took him in for rehydration because he had been vomiting...I did not expect him to be in renal failure. It's reinforcement of one of the many lessons they try to teach us crazy humans - to live in the moment.
You are in our thoughts and our prayers....please know that we are thinking about you and sending you (((hugs)))
Love Heather and Spirit Zeus
Heather and Spirit Zeus - Our life changing journey…from the earth to the heavens…one day at a time…always together
So sorry to hear Max is feelig down. It is upsetting how quickly things can take a turn for the worse with advanced cacer care for these amazing dogs. But the turns go both ways, and Max is truly amazing.
Coughing and wheezing were some of the very last symptoms Jerry exhibited. We had plenty of good days to go along with the bad near the end of his crazy roller coaster ride. You ask if Max is in the final stages. I say no, not until his badd days outnumber the good.
As far as advice goes, I can only recommend reviewing some of these posts from we contemplated the same thing during our last couple months with Jerry:
What’s on the Menu Tonight, Ma?
Stop the Presses: I’m Feeling Pretty Good Today!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Sorry to hear about Max's problems. Vincristine is usually a pretty benign chemo drug and since his WBC count was high, not low then that is probably not the cause of his fever. He could have just caught a virus, but I would expect upper respiratory signs (runny eyes, nose, cough). Did they repeat chest xrays? Some dogs with lung mets are more prone to pneumonia which can cause fever, anorexia, and lethargy. It is also possible that the cancer is also causing a fever. Is he on an NSAID like Metacam? Unless he is on prednisone for his lung mets then a drug like Metacam might make him feel better.
As far as when it is time, you have to let your gut guide you. Usually the dog will tell you when he is ready. If he is still enjoying walks or interacting with the family then that is a positive sign. I hope that he will rebound and feel better soon!
Pam
Diane, John, and Max,
While words have never come easily, they are extremely difficult just now, so please be tolerant if I sometime drift. As one of the most recent to experience this, and because of the relationship that Max and Cherry shared, I must reply to your posting. I will base this solely on my experience with Spirit Cherry.
Unfortunately, there is no flag that will pop-up, a timer that workes like those turkey timers used at Thanksgiving, or (as Shanna talks about) an expiration date stamped on their but. I am not attempting to be flippent here, but trying to be realistic. Besides, in the bigger picture, I am not sure that I wanted to have such a clear indication.
Just a week before Cherry's Three Day Celebration, her condition definately crashed. She freightened the puddin out of me. In a reply posted from Cherry's perspective "Just because I had a hard time standing, my legs were shaking both standing and lying down, had extreme diarrhea, was eating about 10% of my normal amount and vomiting,...". It was NOT her time to cross just then. She bounced back, had a tremendous three day celebration and continued in such excellent condition for nearly six more weeks. My discription that I posted on Cherry's TriPawd Journey web site of her trip on December 16th "we went to the local Dairy Queen across town for an outing. All the way across town, she was bouncing around the back seat, her voice of excitement in full force, and smiles that would warm any heart." I am using exact quotes both because I have real difficulty finishing thoughts, and because I do not want my memory to taint the facts in any way. Thirteen days later Cherry crossed over the Rainbow Bridge and you can read for youself what I was specifically observing in my posting Cherry's Christmas 2009 under Share-Your-Story. I wrote that and posted it just for such times like this.
Cherry's last downturn was first signaled by a loss of appetite, but she had many such drops in her appetite so very often during her more than thirteen month TriPawd Journey. From the Dairy Queen trip onward, she ate slightly less than the day before. During the last, she lived off of Soy Milk, Hill's Pescription Diet hypoallergenic treats, hard cooked eggs, and pumpkin pie ice cream. Remember my matra of remembering to treat the spirit as well as the body and how it was during Cherry's rides in the truck that she first ate food that was offered during her months of chemotherapy? Well, on her last day, it was during one of these trips that she ate her last solid food - those treats. She ate all six of the treats that I had brought along.
Also during this time and much more of a concern to me at the time, Cherry appeared to loose most of her strength. She had a very hard time standing. I would carry her out to the side yard, stratle her, place my feet in a position to stop her rear legs from sliding outward so that she could toilet. After a few minutes, she was always able to make the effort to return into the house or she would poop if necessary. She did develop diarea the last three days. Again, this is all thanks to that detailed journal that I have kept - it does prevent the memory from pulling tricks. Really labored breathing did not occur until the last three days. Our vet (and Emily's very good friend) confirmed just how bad the lungs sounded before we allowed Cherry to cross over.
I am not sure that I am really helping to answer your question. For us, the tired look in Cherry's eyes told us all we needed. This is why I asked Jim and Rene to not use her Christmas photo as a background banner. If you look hard, it will be in their eyes.
I have asked Spirit Cherry to tell Max that just because his amputation followed her by a few days, he does not have to follow her across the Rainbow Bridge. Much as I did when Cherry had her bad spell just before her three day celebration, I will pray that Max has just caught a "bug" and will bounce back. I am sure that during the nearly two hours that it has taken me to write this, there have been many more postings but trust me that this has been a labor of love for your family, Cherry's memory and this wonderful community.
Spirit Cherry's Dad
You said that you could deal with it better if you knew it was a temporary stumbling block. My advice: Treat it like a temporary stumbling block!
Raven has taught me to do this, and even then, he has to keep on teaching me this. The vets all said that he only would live a few days after a visit to the ER 5 weeks ago. During that span, he has done the exact things you describe and rallied. I am so fatigued from the roller coaster ride that I put myself through that I try to not make anything of it anymore when he has bad spells. Honestly, they were so bad and had lasted for a week sometimes that I had the vet on the way to euthanize here at home twice now. Once, my vet had other emergencies and couldn't make it and Raven was 100% better the next day for some reason. And the other time, the vet actually told me it wasn't time yet after he asked me some questions. Like: Does he push through his lethargy if company comes or for something that really excites him like going for a car ride? He was obviously still mobil, as he ran to the vet wagging. He wasn't incontinent or soiling himself. He wasn't in any pain that couldn't be managed, or having trouble breathing. But I was panicked for non-traditional signs because they were not normal for him: The lower eyelids drooping, lethargy, some vomiting, weakness. But, in waiting them out and trying some treatments (for Raven, he gets dexamethasone (a steroid) and b-vitamins as needed and they really boost him up back to normal), he has surprised everyone and recovers to practically a point that you'd never know he's as sick as we know he is on the inside.
I honestly thought that each day was his last, and that was a month ago. So, don't put yourself through that. I truly think that I won't "think" that it is time, I will KNOW that it is time. Until I have that surety, I'm going to just keep assuming that its just a bad day and he'll recover, because so far he always does. 🙂 It may be a bit of denial, but then my frame of mind is much happier and he picks up on that!
I want to comment also that any antibiotics need to be used for 7-10 days minimum to be of any use at all. Yes, they can cause nausea and diarrhea, which may be why he becomes anorexic. What works for Raven with this is the vet prescribed Prilosec (or Pepcid A/C) and metoclopramide (a gut motility drug that helps with nausea), he is on these for life, in addition to two antibiotics for life (because of the infected liver nodules he's got). The drugs help with nausea. I also add yogurt and ProBios (a probiotic you can buy at the feed store for horses that I have on hand, but you can buy other brands at the pet store too). These replace the good beneficial gut bacteria that the antibiotics kill off. I don't feed them in the same meal as the antibiotic or they will cancel each other out a bit. So, I feed some yogurt with ProBios in between meals with the antibiotics. He now has a great appetite again and his eyelids don't hang. 🙂
Prayers to you and for Max. I hope this is some food for thought for you to discuss with your vet. But mostly, try not to read too much into his bad days, it really can mess with your mind and he feels your fears...
Hugs,
Dawn and Raven
Rottie Raven, osteosarcoma at 8-1/2 years old, amputation in October '09 and in February '10 due to liver mets he went back to heaven where he came from. raven.tripawds.com
Now I have Miles, rottie mix amputee from a shelter and traveled 1500 miles to find his way here through the Rescue Railroad thanks to tripawds.com. miles.tripawds.com
Thanks to everyone for the responses. Cherry's Dad - I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Pam - he's not on anything but Piroxicam and Baytril, which our vet prescribed today as an alternative antibiotic. Max had a massive rebound around 11:00am this morning, and started acting alert and energetic. He had all kinds of energy for going on a walk later - to the point where my wife and I started thinking we overreacted this morning. It's just so hard to figure out if he's feeling seriously sick or is just a little lazy or off his game on any given day. He ate like a pig this evening - two cups of cooked ground beef. And that was after eating well over a cup's worth of smoked turkey breast as a mid-day snack. We feed him more these days (when we can get him to eat) than we ever did before the cancer.
We're starting to think we should maybe just get used to Max feeling and looking lousy in the mornings, and improving as the day continues. It's tough to get used to this see-saw. I don't have a lot of hair to spare, and this is starting to turn what's left of it gray. Hopefully we just overreacted - if so, my apologies for what may have been a premature post.
Great news! Sounds like Max is pulling a "Raven". 🙂 He often has very bad nights, but at sunrise he gets up and is perfectly fine. Don't feel badly about possibly overreacting, many of us completely relate. And your post will be read by others in the future and the discussion may help encourage them.
Rottie Raven, osteosarcoma at 8-1/2 years old, amputation in October '09 and in February '10 due to liver mets he went back to heaven where he came from. raven.tripawds.com
Now I have Miles, rottie mix amputee from a shelter and traveled 1500 miles to find his way here through the Rescue Railroad thanks to tripawds.com. miles.tripawds.com
While it may appear that our prayers (it was only a "bug" or minor bump) were answered to the affermative, we will continue with them for all your family.
Keep on truckin my man – To Max and is desire to fight – A tribute to the quality of life you have provided.
Spirit Cherry's Dad
OK, another question. Until this rough patch, we were planning on taking Max on a trip to Carmel and Mill Valley to meet some other Tripawds. But we're no longer comfortable with doing so, because Max is being so picky about what he eats that we can't be assured he'll eat the kind of food we can take with us to a hotel. Plus, it's an all-day drive to get up there and back, and the stress of that concerns us. And worst of all, that also means he's a minimum seven-hour drive away from our vet if something goes wrong. Too many variables are making us uncomfortable about going.
So we're trying to think of alternative things to do during our time off. One of our ideas is to visit Crestline, a mountain community about an hour and a half from us. It's at an elevation of about 4600′, and we're hoping we can show Max snow for the first time in his life. But that raises another concern. He's been a sea level dog his entire life (we live only about 100′ above sea level). Is taking him up to that elevation going to cause him lung or breathing problems? We'd be there a day or two at most, in a cabin with heat, refrigeration, and all the amenities (so we can safely haul along any specialty food required for Mr. Picky). Is the elevation a potential problem?
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