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Acupuncture anyone?
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Member Since:
30 May 2013
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15 July 2013 - 4:08 pm
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Not really cancer related, but TJ is finishing up the cold laser treatment next week and the vet does acupuncture.  Since I know how well a good massage can make you feel I figure jabbing someone with needles is even better :D

That said, anyone have acupuncture done for pain treatment?  Was is better than meds for pain control?

Vet is asking $75/session with initial consult and 1st session for $130.  $75 a session is a LOT vs pain meds so I am more concerned with pain relief 'bang for the buck'... especially if its a weekly thing.

Any advice??

 

 

 

 

Twin Cities, Minnesota
Member Since:
6 March 2013
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15 July 2013 - 5:27 pm
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We go weekly--and it helps tremendously. Sam has arthritis and dysplasia in his hips and back, and also has a ton of trigger points up and down his spine. The acupuncture has really lessened those and help keep him (relatively) loose.

We still take 100 mg tramadol twice daily and 5 mg of prednisone, however, so we are not med free.

We buy our sessions in a package deal, and I think it ends up being around $60/visit.

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul

New Jersey
Member Since:
25 May 2013
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15 July 2013 - 5:56 pm
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We've being doing acupuncture and massage for Snoop weekly. He loves the massages and seems the acupuncture s making him more comfortable, with his flexibility, and some tightening he has a bit in his back sometimes. Since its non invasive we felt all it can do is possible benefit him, I know it works for me! We don't need pain meds and I'd like to postpone that use as long as possible.

Member Since:
11 July 2013
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15 July 2013 - 7:26 pm
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I havent started acupuncture for my tripod, but my Great Dane who has nuro issues has benefited tremendously with treatment his also includes a chiropractic for $60.00 per visit she also used electrodes while preforming the acupuncture and that really adds a lot to the effect of the treatment. All in all it dose amazing things and my amputation boy has his first visit the 31st of August.

 

Good luck and cheers

Dari and Sloane

On The Road


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15 July 2013 - 8:36 pm
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Good question. Search these forums and the blogs and you'll find plenty of answers and feedback regarding the benefits of acupuncture as part of a comprehensive cane rehab regimen by a certified professional. Here a few blog posts and videos you may find helpful...

Canine Acupuncture and Rehabilitation Therapy Tips for Tripawds

Canine Rehab Therapy: Senior Tripawd Bounces Back with CARE

My Visit to the Animal Acupuncture Doctor In Colorado

Homeopathic Hip and Joint Pain Relief

Homeopathy and Pain Relief for Tripawds

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

On The Road


Member Since:
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15 July 2013 - 8:39 pm
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Shiva's people also posted some more helpful links and another informative video about acupuncture and cold laser therapy:

Acupuncture, Cold Lasers and the Red Dog

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Perth, Western Australia
Member Since:
29 July 2012
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16 July 2013 - 6:50 am
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Peda had acupuncture on an as needed basis. It seemed to be quite helpful for her.
The vet who did her acupuncture is also an anesthetist and pain specialist and managed her pain generally. Peda had some fairly significant arthritis and also quite sore back muscles - and was a more senior tripawd. A combination of acupuncture, traditional pain meds, and massage all helped to keep Peda comfortable.
I certainly think it is worth a shot - if you don't think it makes any difference, easy enough to stop.

Kirsty

Member Since:
30 May 2013
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16 July 2013 - 9:00 am
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I don't really have a $300/mo (1 sessions a week + gas) budget for acupuncture.... so I'm trying to get information as to its 'bang for the buck', at $300/mo vs $37 (months supply of tramadol) and $60/mo for bi-weekly cold laser is a big step up.

It seems that the 'puncture has the same level of 'reviews' as cold laser... since I'm happy with TJs walking now (it is better) with the laser, he'd have to be back to darn near puppy level activity to justify the 5x expense of the needles.

 

So far no one has given that level or endorsement. 

Twin Cities, Minnesota
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16 July 2013 - 10:30 am
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Well, would I endorse it wholeheartedly? Yes. Do I think it is worth the $250/month? Yes. Does it work for Sampson? Yes. Would I pick it over laser? Yes. (But would prefer both)

Is it a replacement for meds? No. It is a complement to them. I don't really think the tramadol, esp. at low doses, is really excessively effective on its own.

Are we at puppy-like levels of activity with it? No. But we are aren't a puppy, so expecting anything remotely like it would be silly for us. :D

It's hard to "quantify" it, because Sam isn't TJ, and our goals are not the same as yours...so what's "worth it" is situation dependent. My pool of $ for treament is not large, and so I am also looking for "most effective"--in our case, acupuncture falls into that category (along with pred, tramadol, K9 Immunity , and a shitload of hotdogs).

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul

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16 July 2013 - 11:26 am
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How long till results could be seen?  Would doing, say two weeks, be enough to gauge the results?  I understand what the laser is doing (its supposed to actively restore the joint by stimulating/increasing circulation), but the needles, not so much.  Its it *just* pain relief or are there any restorative properties?

How did you gauge the 'success' of the treatment?  Better walking?  More weight bearing ability on the bad limb?

I'm open to trying it... but kinda happy with how TJ is doing now, so I'm 70/30 with staying with the cold laser unless the consensus is that its 5x better than laser+meds (because that's what it would cost).

 

 

On The Road


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16 July 2013 - 12:36 pm
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tjmcbipper said
How long till results could be seen?  Would doing, say two weeks, be enough to gauge the results?  I understand what the laser is doing (its supposed to actively restore the joint by stimulating/increasing circulation), but the needles, not so much.  Its it *just* pain relief or are there any restorative properties?

How did you gauge the 'success' of the treatment?  Better walking?  More weight bearing ability on the bad limb?

I'm open to trying it... but kinda happy with how TJ is doing now, so I'm 70/30 with staying with the cold laser unless the consensus is that its 5x better than laser+meds (because that's what it would cost).

I think most of your questions can be answered in these two CARE videos.

Megan is accurate when she describes it as being a complement to pain relief and PT. Our rehab ebook also gets into how acupuncture helps.

 

 

 

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Twin Cities, Minnesota
Member Since:
6 March 2013
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16 July 2013 - 1:24 pm
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tjmcbipper said
How long till results could be seen?  Would doing, say two weeks, be enough to gauge the results?  I understand what the laser is doing (its supposed to actively restore the joint by stimulating/increasing circulation), but the needles, not so much.  Its it *just* pain relief or are there any restorative properties?

How did you gauge the 'success' of the treatment?  Better walking?  More weight bearing ability on the bad limb?

I'm open to trying it... but kinda happy with how TJ is doing now, so I'm 70/30 with staying with the cold laser unless the consensus is that its 5x better than laser+meds (because that's what it would cost).

Well, for Sampson, we saw results immediately--but some animals need longer. And, of course, as with anything, some just don't find it effective. Pretty similar to people, really...with the exception that dogs aren't subject to the placebo effect (for good or for ill). It either works, or it doesn't work.

As far as the how it works...like many things in alternative medicine, it's not entirely 100 sure yet. The eastern/alternative medicine practitioners believe it regulates the flow of chi. Western medicine researchers are currently investigating biomechanisms, such as acupuncture activating the opiod receptors in the brain; it stimulating the hypothalamus and pituitary; and it altering the secretion of neurotransmitters and neurohormones. 

As far as "restorative" processes...I'm not sure what you mean, entirely. In terms of OA, a damaged joint is a damaged joint. When articular cartilage is destroyed, that loss is permanant. You can't regrow or restore it naturally. Some supplements/therapies are thought to help preserve it, to slow the damage, or to help lubricate the joint. And some therapies can provide a substitution for the AC. But in general, it's like the keys in the burning lava theory--once it's gone; it's gone. And while there are studies/papers on laser therapy as a means of functional improvement and possible repairs, there really hasn't been a definitive answer about its efficacy and how much of it is placebo...so in regards to restoring things with laser, it's about on the same level as acupuncture, I guess, re: "proof". That being said, OA of the knee, in particular, seems to be one of the more widely regarded areas of success with acupuncture, so...

How did we gauge success? Increased appetite with less medication. Reduction in trigger point size and number. Greater ease of mobility. Increased enthusiasm and enjoyment of daily activities. Engagement in surroundings. As I've mentioned before, our issue isn't really that Sampson has cancer...it's that he has OLD. He has OA and dysplasia. And then he had old, which made those worse. And then he lost a leg. Which made it worse again. For us, success is something that mitigates the discomfort he has, and allows him to enjoy life--even if it's at a slower pace. :-)

I do think we have different goals, so that plays a role...

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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13
16 July 2013 - 1:54 pm
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Juat wnt to acknowlege everyone for great dialogue and the passing back and forth of valuable informative posts!

Thanks:-)

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Member Since:
24 April 2013
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14
16 July 2013 - 2:45 pm
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Have you shopped around for better prices? We have three local vets that are certified in acupuncture and all have different prices. We got a package of 6 for $200.
As Sam's mom said, we all have different goals, ours being pain relief and help with mobility. Atlas is not on pain meds but is on anti inflammatories and the acupuncture works much better for him then the cold laser did. But they are all different. We saw an immediate respnse in Atlas energy level. he was sore after the first treatment and then bam! he was full of energy the second day and running around with much better mobility. Like cold laser, Acupuncture also stimulates circulation and blood flow. Some dogs do respond after the first treatment so maybe it's worth a shot at least once, who knows it might be the magic needle for TJ that it has been for many others. Maybe not, but you won't know unless you try.

Member Since:
30 May 2013
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17 July 2013 - 3:39 pm
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I'll shop around but being kinda rural there are few options that wouldn't include a two hour drive (round trip).

Most of TJs issues are due to arthritis in his right rear leg and it being handled (as best I can tell) with the laser and meds.  If I notice him slow down I'll swap off the laser and give 'puncture a try if meds don't take up the slack. 

August 1 TJ is getting a chest x-ray to see how his lungs are... he'll be 4 month post cancer diagnosis and 3 months post amp... and I'll see what options I have and how TJ is doing.

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