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Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat

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Should I get 2nd opinion?
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Winnipeg
Member Since:
13 July 2009
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29 July 2009 - 4:26 pm
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Hi JackiandMac

Well the unanimous consensus is to go for the 2nd op and tazziedog (who is a vet, although you probably knew that already) had good suggestions. It is possible that even a cancer vet might not think amputation is the best way to go, but hopefully such a vet would have good suggestions for pain management or alleviation (radiation as suggested by tazziedog). And getting used to the absence of a hind limb is supposed to be a piece of cake.

At least you need answers to some questions: what about the blood work and results made the vet think amputation was a bad idea?

My Tazzie (8 yr 75 lb when he still had four legs 2 weeks ago) had a tumour that grew QUICKLY the week before amputation. We could tell it was larger each morning, although the swelling was not visible before that week. The examination of the bone, once it was removed, revealed some sort of fracture, not noticed or not present when the x-ray was taken. So, yes, these are aggressive tumours.

I have had to drive my dog 3 hrs to the cancer specialists and, yes, I brought the x-ray with me. Thankfully my regular vets (only 1 hr from home) were very neutral and suggested I make the trip. They said they were GP's and avoided commenting on treatment, so that was fair enough. In fact, they had the specialists do the chest x-ray. They felt those vets were far more qualified for this disease.

Having made the long trip (my dog is simply a horrible nervous wreck in the car!), it would have been great to have a follow-up visit with the vet after the amputation, before we got home and fretted and fumed for 2 weeks. It is not as though I could run to the vet if something seemed off (and things often seem off during the early stages). I felt rather abandoned (thank goodness for this web group).

I am now back in the city, hanging out for a couple of days while Tazzie gets his first chemo. So it is a nuisance to go this far, but heck it could be 20 hrs and impossible to get help rather than 2-3. I guess we should be very glad that there is a specialist within a 2-3 hr drive. In fact, I will be living 15 hrs from the nearest specialist by the end of August, so certain options will not be possible then.

You sound like you have dug into the food literature already (I took my first baby steps in that direction today). IF they decide regular chemo is not worthwhile, metronomics might be something worth considering, and some dogs - for instance famous Jerry - opted for that route.

The vet might want to see the dog. I think seeing a healthy fit animal makes them more inclined to think the dog will adjust well to the loss of a leg. But perhaps that will be obvious from his records

Best of luck! Keep us posted!

Susan and Tazzie 2

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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29 July 2009 - 5:11 pm
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By all means get a second opinion.  The diagnosing vet for Trouble told me what the options were, but discouraged me from pursuing them because of her weight.  The next evening we had a second opinion appointment with the most wonderful vet.  He treated us as if we were the only patients he had and spent close to an hour talking, answering questions, and discussing options.  He insisted that while the choice was ours, the only way to end the pain was to amputate. He never pushed us to make a decision, but left his morning open for surgery the next morning.

I dropped her off on the way to work the next morning, praying we had made the right decision.  I didn't know for sure until we picked her up two days later.  I could already tell a difference in her even with the pain of the surgery to deal with.  Our situation was different in that there was no lung met.  A knowledgable specialist can make all the difference in the world.  By all means, get a second opinion before you make a final decision.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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29 July 2009 - 7:57 pm
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Jacki,

Thanks for joining. As you can already tell, this is an incredible community full of supportive pawrents. We have another member here, Zeus, who lives 2 hours from you in Oakton. I think that the Southpaws clinic name rings a bell, that may be where he went for treatment. Zeus is 11 years old and has successfully fought cancer for 15 months. You may want to contact him. Go to his latest post, and click on the blue "Send PM" button at the top of his post).

Glad to hear Mac had a better day. Have you tried hiding the pills in something else, like mixing them in food with some cottage cheese? Anything new and exciting might entice him a little more. Be patient though, he might not feel much like eating because of the pain and the meds.

Keep us posted OK? Many hugs to you.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Harrisonburg, Va
Member Since:
29 July 2009
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31 July 2009 - 6:38 am
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I've sent Mac's bloodwork/xrays to the cancer center and I was supposed to have a phone consultation this afternoon but I just got a call and they rescheduled it (argh) to Monday.  It cost 170 dollars, which think that's a bit steep for a phone call, and when I asked how much they charge for amputation she said $3200-$3600.  My regular vet charges $700-$900.  But I want to start a relationship with them in case they suggest treating him there.  When I picked up Mac's paperwork I copied his blood panel results to have for myself and it's worse than I thought.  These are the ones that are off and what they should be:

Total protein: 4.1  (5.0-7.4)

Albumin:  1.4  (2.7-4.4)

Albumin/Globulin Ratio:  0.5  (0.8-2.0)

Alkaline Phosphatase: 262  (5-131)

Glucose: 55  (70-138)

Calcium: 8.2  (8.9-11.4)

Cholesterol: 356  (92-324)

Everything else is fine, but it concerns me that it all points to liver damage.  I'm starting him on milk thistle.  He's been doing good these past couple of days, eating kibble last night and this morning and being animated. 

Kirkland, WA
Member Since:
2 June 2009
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31 July 2009 - 7:18 am
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Our Oncologist's office was going to charge $3500 for the amputation.  Our regular vet didn't feel comfortable doing such a big surgery but gave us the names of a couple "vet hospitals" in the area that do amputations regularly.  We ended up paying $1500.  Specialists charge more because their surgeons are highly trained for these types of surgeries, but you can get them cheaper at other locations and they still do a fine job.  We still get Jack's chemo at the specialist's office, and there are no hard feelings that we didn't get the surgery there 🙂  We also go to our regular vet for our post-chemo CBC tests, and they charge us about $30...that's $40 cheaper than at the Oncologist. 

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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31 July 2009 - 8:54 am
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Yes I paid "an arm" (but not a leg) for amputation at a specialist. Embarassed to say it cost $3800 Canadian (that was after they refunded 700 for some reason. I know a vet near where I live (in a small city) will amputate a leg after a car accident for $800 but as Jack says, there is probably a good vet who can do that task for somewhere around $1500 if needed.

It sounds as though you really do need a specialist's advice on how to treat or manage Mac's disease. It sounds a bit complicated. $170 sounds like the full fee for an in-person consultation by a board-certified oncologist or surgeon (I was shocked to find that out myself yesterday!). Are you sure you don't want to make the drive? I suppose they can tell you as much on the phone

I almost always ask for a copy of bloodwork, and the vets don't seem to mind. This started since Tazzie o.d.'d on Advil 7 yrs ago, after which I monitored his kidney values closely for several months.

Best of luck to you and Mac,

Susan, Tazzie 2

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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31 July 2009 - 9:20 am
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$3200 - $3600 is a bit steep, most people here get it done for around $2k. Now, your regular vet might be cheaper, but do you really want this person doing it? How many has he done? What was the success rate like (i.e., how many recovered successfully?). That price really concerns me, it's awfully low, and I'd be leery about what kind of anesthesia he uses, what his post-op monitoring is like, whether or not he has overnight staff there. It just sounds too quick and dirty to me, be careful.

If you can find a university hospital to do the surgery, they're usually less. Use the oncologist to manage the after-care, but for the surgery, I'd look around. Also, the cost for the board certified oncologist consultation sounds about right. Remember, there are very few of them in the country, so they charge a premium, but you'll get information and help that you would have a hard time finding anywhere else.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Kirkland, WA
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2 June 2009
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31 July 2009 - 11:31 am
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Just a note about having a regular vet do the amputation:  We called many places and most turned us down because of how intense the surgery is.  While it was really stressful at the time, I appreciate it now because it meant we did not take Jack to a place that has little experience with amputations.  I would ask if there is a vet hospital (more specialized than a regular vet, less specialized than a...well...specialist) nearby that you could be referred to.  I've found that most vets refer patients places when they cannot perform a particular service, so your regular veterinarian may know of a few locations you could check out

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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31 July 2009 - 11:34 am
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Great advice! And also keep in mind that if a vet isn't willing to make referrals to specialists and others who may better suit your needs (yes, there are some who won't), then that is a vet you should run away from.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Harrisonburg, Va
Member Since:
29 July 2009
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3 August 2009 - 9:39 am
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I finally had my phone consultation with the oncologist today.  She answered a lot of questions but I was a little disappointed that it was a short conversation and she seemed a little rushed.  She said that she looked over Mac's x-rays and that she couldn't see anything on the chest one.  I told her that my vet had said he saw some mets on there so she said she'd take another look just to make sure.  She agreed that something is causing the blood test results to point to liver damage so she suggested getting a local vet to do an abdominal ultrasound.  She said that if it's all clear then she would recommend amputation *fingers crossed*  She also said that the K9 Immunity regimen and the milk thistle and SAM-e are good things to have him on and that she has a lot of dogs there that are on the same things.  I called around some local vets and most don't have the equipment but then I called the vet that macsmom who's here in the forum goes to, and they indeed had it and in 2 hours I'm taking him to have the ultrasound and probably more blood tests.  I asked them if they're comfortable with amputation surgery and they said yes, and I remembered macsmom, Amy, saying how attentive the after-hours care was, so hopefully his ultrasound will look good and they'll give him a green light to have surgery.  The oncologist suggested chemo as well, but I'm just going to try and get this taken care of first before I even have to think of that. 

This all has been so horrible and taxing and breaking me down.  He curls his leg up and the pain makes it shake and for the past couple days he hasn't been able to get up off of the floor to stand by himself.  So if he wants to be somewhere else he'll start crying and barking cause he can't do move until we help pick him up.  It makes me cry to see him like this.  And he didn't eat his breakfast.  I told him the other night "No matter what happens, you're not going to be in pain much longer".........and then I left the room and cried myself to sleep. 

Winnipeg
Member Since:
13 July 2009
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3 August 2009 - 10:26 am
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Hi JackiandMac

Gosh – I had no idea Mac was in so much pain. Poor thing. That must be SOOO hard for both of you, and clearly something needs to be done. It is too bad the phone consult felt short and rushed. For that kind of money, that should give you undivided attention for at least 30 min, hopefully 1 hr.

So you have mixed news. Fantastic if they see no lung mets, although obviously your different readers are seeing different things, which happens. Additional readers or additional views can help success in interpreting those darn x-rays.

Although most of us are proponents of amputation – our own dogs have gone through that – I don’t think we’d say to take it lightly, at least I would not, having watched my dog act like a heavy rock the last two weeks. My relatively young (8 yr, 70 lb now down to 64 lb) and usually vibrant dog has taken about 2 weeks to turn a corner to a point where he seems relatively comfortable and interested in life (of course, he is still a long way from his pre-amp self). I’d go through it if I thought my dog had a good chance of lasting a few months or more. I know some dogs bounce back more quickly, but some older heavier dogs also come back more slowly.
Of course the rub is that we never know for sure how long they will last, so there is a huge judgment call!

Great that you connected with MacsMom’s vet! I wish you all the best at this difficult time, and I hope you meet a vet that is extremely attentive to Mac’s needs at this time. You definitely have a lot of people rooting for you!!

Susan and Tazzie 2

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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3 August 2009 - 5:27 pm
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Jackie, thanks for the update. Just curious, how long was the phone call? We've never done a phone consultation with a specialist, it would be good to start seeing how long pawrents spend on the phone with them.

I agree: focus on the ultrasound / potential amputation first. Try not to overwhelm yourself. While it's good to prepare, I also like to recommend taking one thing at a time.

It's so awesome to know that people here are sharing information here that's helping one another. That's what makes this community so special.

Please let us know what happens next. Try not to be so hard on yourself. While it's horrible to see our furkids in such pain, remember that you're doing everything you can to help him alleviate it and move on with quality living. We're certain Mac knows that too.

Much love to you and Mac....

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Harrisonburg, Va
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29 July 2009
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3 August 2009 - 10:58 pm
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Thanks guys.  I know I've been taking it so hard, and I think just over the weekend it was so much worse cause I couldn't do anything until Monday and I felt helpless.  The phone call seemed like it lasted only about 15 minutes or so.  I didn't actually check the clock, maybe it was a little longer.  She was very nice though and she left a message on my phone tonight asking to call her back (I think she took another look at the chest x-ray). 

I really honestly think Mac would do well with the amputation and he's been in bad pain, that's why I'm pushing for it.  He only whines when he wants to stand up and is asking for help to do so, otherwise I haven't heard him cry from the pain.  He's stoic, like most dogs, but I can see it in his eyes.  I took him this afternoon to the new vets and the poor guy was vibrating/shaking from head to toe.  He doesn't like the doctor's office, but who does right?  The staff seemed really nice and he explained that he didn't see any mets on the lungs and the leg bone is prime location for amputation, but that darn low albumin level got him worried.  It's really low and I know that it points to something bad in the liver and so does he.  He didn't do anything but a checkover today but tomorrow afternoon I'm bringing Mac in and he's going to stay the night there so that he's all prepped for the ultrasound Wednesday morning.  Before that they're also going to do another blood panel.  If nothing horrible shows up on the ultrasound, he's going to go ahead and do the amputation wednesday afternoon.  If something is wrong, he's going to call me.  So that's where I am.

If there's a tumor or something in the liver, I don't think I'm going to have any choices.  In 12 days he'll be 13 (oh god a teenager!!), and I'd really like to celebrate our shared birthday together.

Thanks again for all your well wishes and support guys.  I love this forum.Clown  Maybe I'll run into the other Mac at the vet.  Hope McGwire is recovering well....I haven't heard anything in a few days from Amy.      

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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28 November 2008
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4 August 2009 - 1:38 am
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Sending you lots of healing thoughts and strength as you make your tough decisions.  We all have to make them and we know how you feel.  The best you can do is take all the information you have, and trust yourself.  You know Mac and you will know what is best for him.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

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26 November 2008
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4 August 2009 - 7:47 am
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It is difficult to express how sorry we are - first with the initial diagnosis and now with the long process of moving on with the treatments. We feel very lucky(?) in that it was only a week from a slight limping in the morning that disappeared in fifteen minutes to actually carrying the fore-leg. From that point, the initial diagnosis was on Friday and the amputation occured the following Wednesday. We also feel very lucky with a history of extremely great vets. In this case, our local vet came back with the initial xrays (almost in tears herself), told us of the preliminary diagnosis and provided a reference to a new clinic in the area. This new clinic had the oncologist, surgery as well as the emergency care facility all co-located in a large single building. Expensive - yes (approximately $11k) but extremely professional, caring, knowledgeable, and actually listened. From the ultrasound and xray, they thought that there might be a tumor in her kidney as well. The blood work also suggested that it might have spread into the para-throid. Since the main aggressive treatment for all of these was the same chemicals that we were using on the Osteosarcoma, we never hesitated always moving forward with this most aggressive treatment. Cherry's chemotherapy started just hours after the amputation. You can see - we had the "peddle-to-the-medal". We are more than eight and a half months post amputation and for the most part doing great.

I said in an earlier posting that you know your companion better than anyone. In the end you will make the best decision possible for all your family and I am sure that regardless of that decision, you will execute that decision flawlessly.

Bob & Cherry

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