Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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My dog MacLeod was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in his hing right leg on July 21st, last Tuesday. He is a 65 lb Elkhound/Australian Shepherd mix who is 2 weeks from turning 13. He is in good health and his bloodwork looks pretty good, except for a slight deviation in bilirubin which may or may not indicate the beginning of liver damage. Last Friday he was supposed to have a bone biopsy and chest x-rays but the vet called and said that a new x-ray of his leg indicated a fracture had started and she was afraid that a biopsy would cause it to shatter. She also said that there were 2 tiny nodules in his lungs, an indication of metastasis. We discussed options for treatment and from all the good things I heard about amputation on this website, and the fact that Mac has always acted like a puppy and been in good health and is full of life made me decide on amputation. He was scheduled for surgery earlier today and we dropped him off this morning, but when I got home I got a call from the senior vet that works there and he said that he'd been looking over bloodwork and x-rays and didn't want to do the surgery. He said that he'd compared x-rays from last tuesday and friday and that Mac's cancer was extremely aggressive and said that a dog his age would take 6 months to recover from amputation, and then he'd probably die. He also said that the pain from the surgery would be way worse than what he's experiencing now from the cancer. I asked about radiation therapy, which he said wouldn't help, and chemotherapy, which he said wouldn't help either. I asked about Immunity boosters, which he said only treats viral infections and not cancer and hadn't heard of anything like that used in treatment. His suggestion was to put him to sleep or just increase Tramadol and Deramaxx to keep him comfortable.
Some of the things he said contradicts a lot of the research I've been doing and most of the stories about amputation and cancer in this forum. So I was wondering if anybody thinks I should get a second opinion? There is an oncologist and cancer center about 2 hours away I was thinking about going to. I still think Mac would do well with amputation and at the very least immunity boosters and supplements. Any suggestions or comments about this would be greatly appreciated.
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I would get a 2nd opinion. When I read about you said the vet saying nothing would help except putting MacLeod down really makes me frustrated. The vet had nothing constructive to say, not even suggested other options which you could pursue somewhere else.
Did the vet show you the x-ray and explain to you why he thought it was very aggressive? Did the vet send the x-ray to a specialist for interpretation?
Genie was 12yo (70Lbs) when she had amputation. The first 2 weeks of recovery journey was not easy, but I could see how relieved she was that she was dealing with only the post surgery discomfort, and pain from the surgical site; not the brutal pain from the bone tumor. She bounced back after this crucial two weeks, and we never looked back.
Again, every case is different. Some dogs do very well, and recover very soon. Some take longer.
I agree with you that boosting the immune system not only is good in general health, but it is especially important for cancer patients.
Best wishes to MacLeod and Please keep us posted!
Hugs.
Well I'm sure you'll hear from more knowledgeable folks than I here soon (or already have), but I'll chime in that it sounds odd to me too. Sure 13 is up there, but if MacLeod is in good health it's hard to imagine it would take him 6 months to recover if he's in good health otherwise. Yoda is only 6 and it good health, but he was ready for the dog park just one month after his amputation. And yeah, amputation is painful, but that's what anesthesia and painkillers are for - so that reason not to do it seems kind of weird. Frankly, Yoda seemed like he was in less pain on all the heavy-duty drugs post-amputation than he was before it when he was on Rimadyl, Tramadol and Tylenol with Codeine.
Maybe it's also pointless to mention, since I'm no vet, but my understanding was that it's the younger dogs who generally get the aggressive osteosarcoma. I guess I mention it, just because there seem like a lot of little red flags - things that sound like contradictions, as you said, to what I've read and heard from others, as well as experienced with Yoda.
A second opinion sounds wise to me.
Yoda&Mom united: 9/5/06 …….… Yoda&Leg separated: 6/5/09……… Yoda&Leg reunited: 10/14/09 ……… ……………….………….………….……. Yoda&Mom NEVER separated! …………………….….……....….…… Though Spirit Yoda currently free-lances as a rabbit hunting instructor for tripawds nationwide
Like the others said, I would go ahead and get the second opinion. The oncologist may be able to inform you of other treatments available for the cancer, and well as other options to keep him comfortable. Also, from what I've heard, the pain from bone cancer is extremely high. I did not realize how much pain my dog was in until we got him back from the vet after surgery and he was starting to perk his ears up again...he haden't done that for months. Keep posting any other questions you have! This is a great place for getting information from other people that have been there 🙂
<3
–Did the vet show you the x-ray and explain to you why he thought it was very aggressive? Did the vet send the x-ray to a specialist for interpretation?–
Thanks for your response. The first vet showed me the x-rays and the second senior vet called me and said that from Tuesday-Friday's x-ray, the cancer had eaten away more of his bone “at the rate you would normally see after 3 months, in 3 days”. And no he hasn't consulted anyone else. He kept assuring me that after 20 years of being a vet he'd seen enough OS patients to know what he was talking about. I still feel like fighting it though.
Hugs back.
I would still go for a 2nd opinion. If he is not open minded enough, it really does not matter of how many years as a vet he has seen OS cases. The more he sees, the more closed minded he will be and will give automatically death sentence once an OS diag is made.
Whatever he said is contradicting to what Genie and I had gone through, and also contradicting to all the stories I have heard in this forum.
Go with your gut feeling, if you don't feel comfortable with his suggested options, get an oncologist to do an assessment.
Hey Jax, please consider registering as a member, so your posts can be viewed by others instantly without delay.
Jax,
We are so sorry for alll that you two have been through. A diagnosis is hard enough, but to deal with a vet who sounds stubborn and unwilling to look at different options about osteosarcoma treatments, even with lung mets, well, it makes me want to growl.
You know your dog better than anyone else. It sounds like your instinct is telling you to go to that cancer center. Yes, 2 hours is a long drive, but if it will ease your mind to know that you've researched all of the options, then do it. There are plenty of other docs out there who are more current on ways to handle osteosarcoma cases.
When I was diagnosed, my pawrents drove to the nearest university teaching hospital, 6 hours away. We only had to go there twice, once for the consult, a second time for the surgery. After that, my regular vet did follow up care. Where do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Maybe we can get some referrals for you.
Oh, and yes, please register as a member so people can help with answers right away. Thanks!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I second the second opinion, for all the reasons already mentioned. You know your dog, taking away the pain of the tumor might make it easier for him to recover from the surgery, and there are more modern ways of dealing with osteosarcoma than the methods used 20 years ago.
It would be interesting to know how many amputations your vet has performed. And how did all the previous diagnoses turn out?
I'd fight it.
Cemil and mom Mary, Mujde and Radzi….appreciating and enjoying Today
While the Red Dog is younger than MacLeod by three years, she BOUNCED back from surgery…take a look at the video evidence in her blog: http://myreddog.....ogspot.com (Start with the oldest posts and work your way forward in time)
You must combine your faith in science with your faith in yourself…follow your instincts and you won't have regrets. If it's time, you will know it; if not, you will know that too. Not all stories have happy endings in the present moment, but they all will end the same way eventually, anyway. In the meantime, love your dog the best way you can and make decisions for him based upon what you feel is best for HIM, not for you, your vet or anyone else…only you know what that is.
The Red Dog sends MacLeod her best wishes and we send you our thoughts, prayers and support.
Oh Happy Day!
I would definitely get a 2nd opinion... just like others on this forum, there is nothing I wouldn't do for Smokey as long as I was able to do it :). Smokey was getting close to 12 years when his front right leg was amputated last August... it took him two weeks to bounce back (once he was off the pain meds he was doing great). He also always has been in good health (when he was about one he was hit by a car and I thought that would have affected his legs, but it didn't). We did xrays before the surgery and showed zero signs of hip dysplasia, which helped enforce the decision to amputate. Smokey is a rockstar... and it's amazing how well he's doing now. Just last week were at the vet for a quick checkup and people in the waiting room couldn't fathom that he was only a tripawd for 11 months because he acted like he'd been that way his entire life... and that he was 12 years old! Just last night he was running all over the apartment chasing his toys and his ball :).
We all send MacLeod and family our best wishes and positive thoughts and are definitely sorry to hear of your diagnosis. By now I think that you have realized that the contributors to this site will unanimously support a 2nd opinion. Being very clinical in my assessment, you have devinately been delt a very bad hand but I personally would not throw in the towel. Cherry turned eleven in the days between the initial diagnosis and the amputation. That is on borrowed time for a Standard Poodle. For her the chemotherapy was far worse than the amputation which I am sure she would have bounced back from in days. She was getting around very well until the chemicals took hold and her chemotherapy treatments started just hours after the amputation.
Based upon what you are relaying to us, I presume that chemotherapy would definately be in any treatment program forward. We chose our very aggressive chemotherapy treatment to attack any cancer cells before they took over. Thus, your suggestion of talking to an oncologist would be very informative and timely if you deside to fight back. The two month long chemotherapy was extremely tough and I had to stuff nearly every morsel of food until the chemicals were gone from the system. However, I would choose this course of treatment again without hesitation. The amputation elimated the pain immediately and the chemo provided the "best" prognosis. Cherry finished her eighth month of recovery ten days ago but even if she only survived a few months after the amputation, I would have chosen this path rather than not fight back. It is personal and I will not let go easily. I now fight for her and enjoy our time together - there will be plenty of time later to grieve.
Above all, you know MacLeod better than anyone and rest asured that the decision you make will be the best decision for all your family. We here at this site will provide support and suggestions where ever possible.
Bob & Cherry
Anyone who suggests that the pain of amputation is worse than bone cancer pain is either ignorant or misinformed. It sounds to me like this vet does not want to be bothered with doing the surgery, or he needs to go to continuing education classes because much of what he told you is wrong. Even if you elected not to do amputation this dog would still benefit from radiation and/or IV pamidronate injections.
I would still consider amputation but I would first get a second opinion from an oncologist if possible.
Pam and Tazzie
What a horrible vet! I would go for a second opinion also. No way can the pain of amputation be worse than cancer eating away your bone!
Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.
I would absolutely get a second opinion. Also, your vet needs to go back for a little continuing education. The lung mets and McLeod's age are a couple of obstacles, but I would not throw in the towel. My Lily was diagnosed with 2 lung mets a year ago and she is still going strong. She has also had aggressive treatment and lots of people praying for her. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise that your vet did not do the amputation. I would want to be sure that the vet performing the amputation has quite a bit of experience with amputations and a good plan for pain management after the surgery. Dogs place 60% of their weight on their front legs and 40% on their rear legs. That's one thing that Mcleod has in his favor. Dogs usually have an easier time if the leg that is amputated is a rear leg. Lily lost a front leg and she still gets around fine though. The Animal Cancer Center at Colorado State University will give a free telephone consult to anyone anywhere in the country. Their oncologists will talk directly to you or with your vet if that's what you prefer. Their telephone # is 970-221-4535. Ask to be transferred to the small animal reception desk and then tell them that you would like an oncology consult. The person in charge of oncology consults is Kathy Paris (not sure about spelling). When Lily was first diagnosed with OS, CSU returned my phone call in less than 30 minutes. I also definitely think it would be worth the 2 hour drive to the oncology center in your area.
I also think your vet is wrong about the pain of surgery being worse than the pain associated with bone cancer. I have consulted with numerous oncologists over the last 2 years of Lily's treatment. They all said the pain from bone cancer is worse that the pain from surgery. The pain from surgery can be managed with the proper medication and usuallu goes away after 2 weeks. ( It took 2 and 1/2 weeks for Lily to recover.)
You can read Lily's story through Jan. 2009 at http://puppyup......lldog.html
Sorry I didn't register right away, I don't do forums very often. Thanks for all the advice guys. I have to say I love all your pictures and videos; your dogs are beautiful. Oh and I live in Harrisonburg, VA (northwest VA).
So today I called Southpaws Veterinary Center in Northern Virginia, which is about 2 hours drive away. They treat cancer and offer all kinds of treatment. I asked if I could send them Mac's bloodwork and records to see if they could give me a second opinion without him having to actually be there because I don't want to have to take him for that long of a drive if I don't have to. They said that I could get either a phone consultation with me or that they could talk directly to my vet and discuss with him what to do. I said I preferred to talk to them myself since my vet seems pretty stubborn and I don't know if he could be swayed to do the amputation. I then called my vet's office and asked if they could copy his records for faxing or if I could pick them up and take them to the Southpaws office myself. I may have to do that because you can't copy x-rays and so I'll probably end up driving them directly to the office if that's possible. My sisters live near where the Southpaws is located so it's not a big deal for me to take all of Mac's information up there, and if he needs chemo or radiation therapy we'll have a place to stay.
Mac had a pretty ok day today. He ate all his food (although he won't eat anything but canned food and meat now) and took all his pills. I've started him on a high protein low carb diet, been buying Wellness brand. And today his K9 Immunity came so we'll see how that goes. He takes 1 Deramaxx, 4 Tramadol, 1 Pepcid, 7 K9 Immunity , 1 Transfer Factor, 3 K9 Omega Fish Oil, 4 Synovi G3 a day. It's been a pill (lame pun intended) to get him to take those. Have to crush and hide and squeeze them in and he doesn't like any of the pill pockets. If he even suspects there is a pill underneath the peanut butter or whatever, he won't eat it, and instead will flash me a dirty look. He's a smart and kinda crotchety old man lol. I love him so much, and I haven't been able to sleep really since the OS diagnosis.
I'll keep you posted. I'm hoping the other doctor will push for amputation. I wanna get that pain offa him as soon as possible.
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