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Incontinence Drug - Karen & Pug Girls and Any Other?
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Member Since:
10 March 2010
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28 May 2010 - 6:56 pm
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I am directing this to Karen cuz she mentioned it in the other thread.  The Baytril isn't really doing anything, I thought it was in the first two days, but not now.  I just watched some squirt out.  I am going to finish the ABs, just in case, however the culture is NOT growing.  I asked the vet for Proin (thanks Karen) and she is going to prescribe it, we are going to go for a dose for like an 85 lb dog and start really low…she doesn't like this drug much and says there can be hypertension and behavioral changes….now I don't know if the wolfdog part might be concerning her, she didn't say.  Magic has been okay with most of the other stuff (same tramadol reaction as most of you)

Looking for any experience with this drug and feedback good or bad.  This will be a real quality of life issue for us….I am very concerned.

krun15
2
28 May 2010 - 7:18 pm
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Hi Diane,

I have not seen any changes in Maggie's behavior because of the Proin, she has been on it for about 3 months.  We hesitated to start it at first only because of Mag's kidney issues, although Proin is supposed to be OK with kidney failure. After we woke up one morning with her soaking wet I decided that for her comfort (and my sanity) to start the Proin.

My vet said it would take about a week to work, but when the vet tech handed me the bottle she said this stuff is like magic.  And as I said before it started working the first day.  Mag takes it 2X a day.  I tried to back off to 1X a day but she started spotting again.  Now I give it every morning and every other evening.  Seems to work fine. We are in the same boat trying to give pills so I have eliminated anything I can and still keep Mag comfortable (and eating).

Mag has had a couple of bladder infections lately- but that may be more related to kidney function.

Our friend Caira Sue was on Proin for years.  She was spayed too early and had leakage problems starting young.  Mary (Caira Sue's mom) actually recommended Proin to me- she said it worked great and she never said anything about side effects.

It is a quality issue for us too- I was not told of any long term side effects- but that is not a concern for me at this point anyway.

 

I hope it works for your guys- it made a big difference here.

 

Karen

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28 May 2010 - 7:39 pm
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THANK YOU SO MUCH for seeing this and responding!!  his dosage is 25 mg tablets, 1/2 to 1, three times a day

I cannot tell you how hard I'm hoping for this one…now that the chemo didn't work and we are doing the quality of life issues, we are really grasping at this straw.  We started the Prednisone today (low dose), and I've been hand feeding him and he wasn't much interested unless I was doing that but tonight, after giving him the half of proin, I put some dinner in his bowl and he ate almost all of it so maybe the pred. will help appetite.  His doc said the proin could also affect his appetite so I hope it doesn't end up a wash.  If he would stay on the big cushions, I have those covered with plastic zip on covers and I haven't put the reg covers back on them, just rotating sheets…too much work to have to keep unzipping and unstuffing with the others.  Unfortunately if I am asleep and he decides to get up and sleep in the hallway (I now have the gate shut to the living room…which he doesn't understand…he has never been locked out of stuff) then we have a soaked carpet.  I also have to be a reasonable human being…I cannot afford to recarpet the house (although it could prob. use it)…there are other priorities and last year I had laminate put in a lot of places, i can close off ONE of them.

I am thinking of locking him in the bedroom with me, not an option before because of OJ but I am catless at the moment (damnit) so I could close the door…THEN the prob becomes that although I don't sleep much, the hour or two hours where I get GOOD sleep, what if I don't hear him and now we have a HUGE lake.  He is still going out and peeing lots and now with the pred. he will drink more water.

Do you pull water from Maggie before nighttime?  I have a lot of water around for him…two bowls in the bathroom in the hall, one by his food (which he usually ignores) and the refilling one outside…I was thinking if I eliminated all water in the house, if he was thirsty he would go outside and probably pee at the same time…rather than just go down the hallway, drink and decide he doesn't want to go the rest of the way to the kitchen and out….what do you think?

 

krun15
4
28 May 2010 - 8:09 pm
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The vet never mentioned to me about Proin affecting appetite- I am struggling to get Mag to eat also.  But she is currently dealing with two cancers and stage one kidney failure.  Her second cancer is a melanoma tumor in her mouth.  So I don't know if the resistance to eating is from the kidney issues, the melanoma, her other cancer, her obstinate pugness or what... I really hope the proin is not contributing to that- I don't think I could deal with the incontinence again.

You know from years with OJ about animals with kidney failure- Mag's reluctance to eat really sounds like everything I have read about kidney dogs.  You know- she will eat chicken when I do meds, but 5 min later she refuses it.

I never withhold water from Mag- because of the kidney failure.  Many evenings after I take her out to pee she comes in and has a big drink of water- and she usually still makes it through the night.  Her water dish is by the back door- when she does go out in the middle of the night on her own she almost always gets a drink.  As long as he can get outside by himself- and he knows the water is there that might work.

 

Feel free to PM me anytime.  I am doing work on my house this weekend so I will probably be home. I have a Blackberry so I get notified when I get a PM.   I am not on this site as much as I used to be because Mag wants to sit with me at night- in fact she is staring at me now...

I'll check back here later as well.

 

Karen

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28 May 2010 - 8:40 pm
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oh Gosh Karen, thank you so much.  She did say it could affect appetite, but just having dealt with OJ's kidney issues, he was in failure since November...his first subQ fluid treatment that I sprayed half of all over the bedroom (didn't have the method quite down yet!!) was thanksgiving.  He hated his kidney food...would eat a little of the dry but I just kept feeding him fancy feast (cat food) because starving wasn't going to help the kidneys.  I actually think Magic could go the whole night...before when he was recovering I had no idea in the world cuz I have had the doggie door for 38 years and he came and went and I paid no attention and usually he slept outside for most of the night.  Now he is inside all night except when he goes out and he has not been happy with me the last two nights for dragging him out with the idea that if his bladder was empty it wouldn't leak!!

I have about decided to try to wetprooof a SMALL area in the bedroom and close the door and try to take him out...if we have the same stubborness, that won't last long, or I'll just take him down the hall and he can spend the rest of the night in the kitchen...I moved one of the covered pads in there just in case.  And I have other cushions, just have to wash the sheets (the ones in the sheds)  I don't mind dealing with a lot of plasltic (being careful not to slip on it of course, or we will have bigger problems) for a few days til we see if this will help...I am hoping we are as lucky as you were with Maggie...she has been dealing with this for YEARS!!  and poor thing with the cancer in her mouth...oh I feel bad for her....for you...for all of us....

okay, time to take this sad sack to bed!!  Thanks again for the help, I will be talking to you again...


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28 May 2010 - 11:29 pm
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Is Magic leaking urine or spurting urine?  Proin may help leaking but spurting is another thing altogether and there are different drugs for that.  I am not a huge fan of Proin either due to the possibility of hypertension (this is the same drug that used to be in Dexatrim and was taken off the market when some women died due to hemorrhagic strokes).  Many dogs do take this safely so if it is a last resort then by all means try it and use the lowest effective dose.

Pam

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29 May 2010 - 2:08 am
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it started as a drip rolling down his leg

I only saw the spurt once this afternoon....so I have been assuming it is still the drip rolling down the leg.

Is it possible that it started as a drip and went to a spurt?  Should I try this for a day or two and if it doesn't work go to something different Pam?

THank you so much for ringing in, I appreciate it.

It is 1 am and I just took him out, pulled off the sheet, another load of laundry is going now, took him outside he peed a river then drank one...we are being locked in my room and I am on my way back there....it is also bad that he lays in it and he is going to start to stink and he has never had a bath     so i will probably need to get some kind of dry shampoo?  Not going to freak him with a bath now, but his long hair....and my claustrophobia in that room, oh what a lovely time lies ahead tonight...

If I need to change drugs,  I only have today and tomorrow that she is in the office then she is off til next thurs...tues the owner of the clinic comes on so I could get a change in script from him.

oh dear i didn't know there was a difference...I shall watch to see which is happening but I just caught that out of the corner of my eye...sigh


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29 May 2010 - 2:37 pm
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I think that I would give the Proin a few days to work before changing to something else.  The prednisone may make him drink and leak more anyway.  There are some good waterless shampoos on the market so that is a good idea.

Pam

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29 May 2010 - 3:04 pm
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well just for fun we went to the vet again, presenting problem: I thought I saw pinkish in pee coming out but then it wasn't on the white sidewalk so I thought my imagination was working overtime...I wish.  He came in den laid on clean sheeted pad, and we have two pinkish drips so out I dash to the yard, no bloody urine on white sidewalk BUT a tiny tiny pinhead blood spot...off we go.  They checked bladder, prostate, kidneys (she said they probed everything, and did ultrasound I see from bill...i'm so looney I'm not even asking anymore what they did..just the results...)  Vet says some thickening and it could be an infection, it could be related to the cancer, it could be related to the last chemo, it could be_____________(fill in the blank)...so just for fun and because I hadn't yet spent enuf today, we are now doing an additional AB...clavamox....but for anyone who is interested I can give partial information about the AAA discount...she wrote the script for Augmentin (I needed two different strengths) and she did warn me that the formed poop of one day may revert to puddles again....my green lawn has black spots on it cuz I cannot get the stuff off!!  Polka-dotted...interesting, maybe it'll catch on!  The vet actually thinks that the formed poop may not have anything to do with the carafate and the reglan but rather the baytril that we will continue til done (we are on day 6).  Oh, AAA...I took the scripts to CVS pharmacy (Walgreens does it but didn't have both strengths and I only got two doses from the vet so needed them today) and I haven't checked the paper work except for briefly and I don't see where the discount actually shows, but the gal said yes it is a discount and took the AAA card and typed away...I just forgot to ask what I saved.  Since it was $122 I'm grateful for anything saved.

Our vet also had a talk with the onc (Ruthie sees the onc) and there is apparently another drug that could be tried...but as the vet tried really hard to be tactful...EVEN IF IT DID SOMETHING GOOD, we wouldn't even be talking months...so I'm NOT going to grab another poison even though it is so so hard not to try that too....I just think it would not be the right thing at this stage for us.

HOWEVER, on the BRIGHT SIDE (boy don't we sometimes grab anything for the bright side), at 6:30 when I got him up to go out, there were a couple of small DAMP (not even soaky wet) spots on the side of the sheet and pad and I walked over the towels in bare feet to see if I missed something.  So that was encouraging at least for the part of the morning prior to the pink pee. 

He did get to the dog park whereupon all the dogs that were there left (what? did they think it was catching???) and just one doggie stayed that wanted to nip and neither of them seemed to be much into romping...it was a little warmish (for a change) and we do have to walk a ways from the parking lot and he had just spent an hour or more at the vet....they did a little bobbing and weaving, I am sure the nipping was playing (I would have let Magic hump that dog since his owner didn't mind the nipping!!!!) and the two of them laid down next to each other in the nice mud and communed.  Then he jogged all the way back to the truck and I went to the pharmacy and could NOT find him when I got home...He had gotten way into the ivy and apparently found a cool spot but it scared me to death...don't know where I thought he had gone, but all kinds of stuff goes thru your mind and none of it is good.  So I jammed a half pee pill down but he was not even interested in the tri tip....

AN ASIDE....PLEASE GOOD THOUGHTS FOR RUTHIE and PAT....Ruthie is limping yesterday and today and Pat cannot find a reason for it and she was JUST at the vet with the stomach issues.  Pat cannot find the reason or the PLACE where it is coming from so she has an appt in 30 mins with the doc we see (the onc is ONLY there on thurs.).  paws, fingers and toes crossed and prayers for them please....

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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29 May 2010 - 4:39 pm
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Sigh...my heart is with you.

Good thoughts for you and Magic and Ruthie and Pat.  I hate this damned disease.

 

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

Wesley Chapel, FL
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29 May 2010 - 10:20 pm
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I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with all the pee issues on top of Magic's cancer... This really sucks! I hope that things start to get better soon...

Sending you and Magic a big fat hug!! You and Magic are in my thoughts and prayers... and Ruthie too!! Keep us posted!

Angel Jake's Mom

Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!

krun15
12
29 May 2010 - 10:24 pm
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Hi Diane,

Are you bleaching those bare feet after the tip toe through the damp spots?  What is normal for us now??  Pee spot here, vomit stain there,

sigh... maybe if I move this chair over there it won't show...

 

I have been seriously thinking about having my pay check direct deposited to the vet- if there is anything left each month they can send me an allowance.

 

Hang in there- strong, positive thoughts coming your way- and for Pat and Ruthie too.

 

Karen and the pug girls

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29 May 2010 - 10:48 pm
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I must be losing my mind that I can read these posts and laugh out loud….well I am losing my mind….I wish I had a chair I could move over some of the spots…I actually hauled out the bissel hot whatever the heck it is, BLEW OFF THE DUST (not joking) and got out the directions and will try to do the hall tomorrow…since it has stopped raining and actually gotten warm.

Ruthie is better tonight, pain pills and rimadyl (I hate saying too much since it is kinda like telling someone else's story), may be a soft tissue injury and tonight she is barking and romping a little and EATING (lucky Ruthie….lucky Pat) but Pat's older horse had to have a vet come out for colic….sheesh…another raining/pouring story.

Magic won't eat anything actually and I hated giving him those last three pills.  I scraped some canine/feline canned vet food into his mouth, about two tablespoons…I just worry about those pills in the tummy that have no food to buffer them.  The vet did say the pee pill could screw with the appetite and we had just started prednisone so they could cancel each other out.  If we have another relatively dry night, I will cut back to maybe two halves a day…we'll see. 

I was sort of wondering if he could have PASSED a bladder or kidney stone…since we had the pinkish pee but no stones on the ultrasound…  Maybe that was the irritation causing the drippiness?  Well tomorrow is another day and I dearly hope that I can make a whole 24 hours without  going to the vet to get meds or to take Magic…I'm sure he is hoping the same thing (along with wishing he had the balls to bite me the next time I stick my hand down his throat with some butter coated pill or another)….

I like the idea of the vet giving you an allowance...I was thinking of having my vet added to my credit card as an authorized user...just got the Visa bill and I guess they now put down if you pay the minimum payment how long it will take you to pay it off?  I pay mine all every month cuz I use it for everything...but if I just pay the minimum...it will take 21 years!!!  21 YEARS!!!!!!  holy cow....

 

Las Vegas, Nevada
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30 May 2010 - 12:24 am
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Poor Magic and Diane!  Here I yammered on...and you never mentioned the bad day you had.  Do dogs have kidney stones?

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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30 May 2010 - 6:23 am
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You guys are too funny with your vet authorized to your credit card and direct deposit to the vet's account! Big laugh at our house! Of course we are laughing with you not at you!  Know the feeling - believe me!

I finally ran out of the big bottle of Tramadol sent home with me the day Trouble was diagnosed and ran by the vet to pick some up so I wouldn't run out over the weekend if I needed it.  $90 later, I was on my way. WTH?!  My intention was to get a couple to get me to our appointment on Tuesday, so you can imagine my shock!  But we're set for the next 18 months now will a boatload!  I must have had a shocked look on my face, 'cause the girl asked me if I'd like to get just half?  I told her absolutely not, I plan on Trouble being around for a long, long, time!

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

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