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Holly's about to become a tripawd... Tomorrow
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Forum Posts: 59
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14 April 2020 - 9:49 am
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Thanks Sally

I feel the same! Like I’ve done something TO my dog not FOR her

So I’ll try and summarise she’s confused but that’s not the main issue, I said she needs more pain relief and thankfully she now has it. She was given a buprenorphine injection but I feel an anti inflammatory would help too?

She’s on amoxycilin, so it’s worrying how she has an infection! There’s pus coming fron the surgical site and a temperature and discomfort when the site is palpated

My usual vet is off today so this is a vet I don’t know! Holly will be in the ER overnight on fluids and antibiotics as well as pain relief

I’m in the UK 

I definitely need a rehab specialist at some point though… 

I could go see our specialist oncologist or request to see an orthopaedic surgeon. I’m now worried about costs as my insurance is quickly running out. We’ve spent 10K of insurance in last 4 months…

I mentioned the phantom pain and severed nerves, my vet said she will look into it as soon as she’s back (also told this new vet who I don’t know)

Pre op bloods were spot on, as were all tests and x ray but she does have a bit of arthritis in back legs, but it’s never been a problem and has been controlled well by heat therapy and pardale and loxicom but we had to stop the loxicom (anti inflammatory) when she was put on steroids for mast cell. Surely we can start this again though now the cancer has been removed and we presumably dont need steroids anymore

I have to go and collect Hol at 6.30pm to transfer her to overnight ER vets. I’ll definitely make sure her pain is managed, we can’t tell much without better pain management right

Also will ask about adequan… 

Thank you so much for all the advice and support 

Hols mum xo

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14 April 2020 - 9:52 am
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Also thank you for the suggestion of the helplines. It’s appreciated. You are all an absolute god send 

Xo

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14 April 2020 - 9:54 am
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PS I’ve seen posts about help oil and CBD oil. Any advice on those guys? 

The Rainbow Bridge



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14 April 2020 - 11:19 am
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Oh gosh I’m so sorry she’s back at the clinic. But, the good news is they caught the infection and she is being treated. And honestly we’ve seen this happen even when a dog comes home with antibiotics, so it’s not that unusual.

Try not to let the vet’s comments overwhelm you. Unless they are coming from an orthopedic surgeon, or your regular vet who is familiar with Holly, I would take that comment about her mobility with a grain of salt right now. Sometimes ER vets unknowingly say things that put us into a tailspin with worry, and their worst case scenarios look nothing like how things play out once the patient leaves the clinic. So move on, and look to the future with Holly. We rarely see arthritis impede pets from regaining mobility after amputation. And Holly’s size puts her at a HUGE advantage for getting around on three. 

Yes, she could use a physio therapist once the infection is over. Your general practice vet should be able to refer you to one. You’ll find it to be sooo helpful! Here are some success stories: https://tripawd…..tag/rehab/

As for CBD, here are our articles about medical cannabis for pets. Proceed with caution and I wouldn’t introduce anything to her right now until the infection is under control and you have a chat with your vet. Our Eating Healthy Forum is a great place to discuss things like supplements and nutrition.

Hang in there. You’ve got this. So does Holly! She will overcome and you won’t believe her progress in another week or two. We are cheering you on!

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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Virginia




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14 April 2020 - 3:44 pm
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Thanks so much for taking the time to share more detail and more backstory. I know you must be exhausted emotionally and physically but every additional little tidbit helps us even feel more and more confident right now that Holly will pull through this!!!! 

 And it’s wonderful that all her pre-op check up was so strong. It’s just more proof that age is just a number.

To know that she had a little bit of arthritis before also explains why she doesn’t feel very perky yet. Now that she is trying to adapt to three legs, there is more pressure on the back legs than before so it takes a little more time and a little more strength to adapt. The physical therapy and Rehab will do wonders.

And yes, check into getting her back on the anti-inflammatory for the arthritis, as long as she’s not taking the steroids anymore. There has to be a washout time in between, as I’m sure you know. 

I’m so glad that a culture is being sent off so now she can be put on an antibiotic that is specific to that infection. Poor girl, on top of everything else, she’s got a fever too!. Hopefully the new antibiotic will knock that out quickly. And the culture would eliminate MRSA also.

You are doing an excellent job advocating for Holly! We are giving you a standing ovation with non stop applause!  👏👏 You are  staying the course, staying positive, and doing what needs to be done to get this sweet little girl back on the road to recovery! I know it’s hard to see right now, but soon you will be absolutely certain that you did this FOR her!

Hang onto us!!!  You are stronger  than you know!  And all the pawsitive  energy from your Tripawd. Family has healing  powers too!

Sending  you peace and calm

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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14 April 2020 - 5:03 pm
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Thanks guys. You’re the best at motivating and encouraging me and Hol, it’s much appreciated.

So I took her home at 6.30 after a day of iv fluids, antibiotics and a methodone injection. The vet said to take her for overnight care at the ER would be £600, my usual vet isn’t about to watch her. We’ve used up out 10K insurance, so all I have is my student bursary, I wanted to take her for overnight care but was also worried about conserving money in case she needs antibiotics all week… The vet said try her at home and if she fusses, take her the ER. We had about an hour at home before she started crying and screaming again. BUT before that, she had CHICKEN BROTH. She loved it and also had some water. I gave her her meds and within the hour she started crying. Also she wouldn’t let the vet clean her wound but we got it all nice and clean at home, no bother.

I took her the ER and they’ve kept her on iv antibiotics, fluids and methodone injections. I pick her up at 7am, and I’m tp take her to my regular vet at 9am for her ‘professional opinion’ on whether it’s time for rainbow bridge

I want second opinions though, so I will ask for some. I won’t give up pn Hol unless it’s TIME to let her pass. I feel very conflicted. Help guys. What do I do???

Pray for Holly

Hols mum xo

Virginia




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14 April 2020 - 5:44 pm
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Of course yoi feel conflicted!  Who wouldn’t  under these circumstances?!   

AND, please know we all understand  the constraints  of finances.  You have already done more than many would be able to do, so please take solace in know that.  

I know I keep going back to this, but it just seems there has to be aomething  surgical related.  The NERVE  thing.  Even a staple poking her.  There HAS to be SOMETHING causing   this pain!!!   Unless there is something   neurological going on, which would be hard to determine. 

I loooove that she lapped up her chicken broth!!!  And let you handle her wound cleaning is so sweet.

During her brief time at home  when the pain was at bay, was she showing  signs of “awareness” that she was home….signs of alertness when she drank her broth??     Prior to the pain breaking through, was there ANYTHING at all you noticed…a certain movement perhaps… maybe moving or stretching in a certain way.?

Okay, she’s  getting good care tonight and won’t  have any pain break thru, so that’s good!!!   

Continuing  to send healing  energy, prayers and love to your sweet Holly AND to you!!  You are such a good advocate for her!

Hugs and love

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS…TECHIE ALERT….Could someone  (and that usually means Jerry😉) find the thread – video on OLLIE?  The dog that had the “dangling nerve” left open that was causing  screaming pain???

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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14 April 2020 - 5:53 pm
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I’ll definitely double check with the nerve thing. The vet and me if im honest think its neurological though. It seems like dementia in humans almost… I mean I think she’s sore, her wound is bloody and infected etc but I think it’s mental

Also the weakness is the main thing the vet is worried about, but surely that can be worked on? She was on prednisone pre surgery and I know that can cause muscle wastage?

Vet wants me to make a decision tomorrow morning. I just don’t know!!!

Keep looking at pics of Hol from mere days ago and it’s breaking my heart. She was OK, she was the Hol I know. And I miss her.

Heart broken Hols Mum xo

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14 April 2020 - 7:01 pm
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Reading up on gabapentin, could it be that causing Hol to not ne able to get up? Seems a side effect of the meds.

Also methodone can cause cognitive problems, could that be the crying /screaming??

I’m wondering if hols side effects are what’s making the vet think she needs Rainbow Bridge . Panicking a bit, don’t want to rush anything. 

A sad and worried Hols Mum xo 

New York, NY
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14 April 2020 - 7:11 pm
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Hi Sophie.  I am definitely not an expert, and I expect some of them will weigh in soon, but it does seem awfully soon after surgery for anyone to be suggesting to you that Holly not be given a chance to recover from major surgery.  She is older and all dogs follow their own path for recovery, and right now hers is especially bumpy.  If you haven’t already, maybe you could reread through the replies to your posts and write down questions to bring with you to the vet tomorrow.  Naturally, seeing Holly will make you emotional, so having your questions written down will ensure that you remember everything you want to vet to answer and consider when devising the right treatment plan moving forward.  I am sending lots of hugs and healing prayers across the Atlantic Ocean to you from NYC! ~ Stacy

Virginia




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14 April 2020 - 7:45 pm
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Did the Vet say she wanted you to make a “decision” tomorrow???   This is her “regular” Vet?????    Did she REALLY say that???????  Which Bet said this?? The ER Vet or the regular one you are going to see tomorrow??

Okay….I need to take some deep breaths myself!!!   Cannot believe she told you that…whichever Vet that was!

Holly was in good shape prior to surgery!!!  Right?   None of this “dementia” crap was mentioned  before the surgery,  right???  I mean, she may have had a little simply  because she is fourteen, but nothing  that made her scream out in pain!!

What test has the Bet done to rhink  it’s a neurologic  issue???  Does she think something  happened during the surgery to cause this?

Did the Vet observe any of this scream and yelling during the first 24 hrs she had her spend the night at her house???

You may be onto something  about the methadone.  Actually about all the different meds she’s had injected or pilled.    The methadone can certainly cause dysphoria.  So she’s hadbuprenorphine AND methadone, and  Gabapentin,  and goodness knows what else has been used. She is such a little tiny thing!  While all thos behavior  could be pain…..especially  NERVE  pain….it could be that she is very sensitive to all those drugs at once!

I dont know how long the injections  stay in her system.   But after they clear her system,  I almost wonder if taking her off all pain meds except just one…for example.Gaba…….or maybe even none at first.  Or maybe just arthritis  med.  I know it’s extreme, but it, at at least tell you if it’s a reaction to the meds.  Of course, you have to endure watching her if she’s in pain from the surgery.  But you would be able to tell the difference  between “surgery pain” verses  the kind  of SCREAMING  that may be a result of reaction  to drugs.

Of course, not a Vet and this would need to be with Vet approval.  

Has the ER Vet given you an update tonight??

Okay, I have another idea.  Gonna post a link to this thread to our Volunteer Vet.  She may not see it right away, but she always has great insight.  

HANG ON!!!  I’ll be back after I post it over there.

……..Okay…I posted your link under Ask A Vet.  Try to hang on and give her a chance to read it…..I’m sure ot won’t  be until at least tomorrow.

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

The Rainbow Bridge



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14 April 2020 - 10:01 pm
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Wow, you poor thing! You and Holly. I’m really sorry this is so hard right now. So I agree, this is waaaaaay too soon to make any kind of decision about saying goodbye. Any vet who tries to force you into a decision like that within a certain amount of time is not the kind of vet I would want to work with. Don’t rush into anything until you get another opinion. And thank you Sally for asking Dr. Pam, that was a great idea. 

Meanwhile here is the link to the discussion about Ollie. He was exhibiting very similar pain signals and his people also thought that he would never bounce back. But they left no stone unturned and Ollie overcame the difficulties:

https://tripawd…..mputation/

Another example is Bender the Bulldog. He had a VERY hard time with pain management after surgery and his people finally found a way to help him. He bounced back completely:

https://tripawd…..anagement/

There is something that is causing Holly to exhibit these pain signals . And I also agree that if she never shoed any signs of cognitive decline before surgery, there’s no reason to think that is the issue now. 

Keep digging until you find out what’s going on. You are a great advocate for her. Let us know what your vet says OK?

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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15 April 2020 - 8:27 am
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It sounds like this dog was comfortable when she went home and was not on any narcotics that would make her act loopy (just gabapentin and acetominophen).  This may be neurologic and the question is could it be related to her mast cell tumor vs a separate brain or spinal lesion.  If her infection is controlled your vet could try prednisone since it is better than an NSAID for brain or spine lesions and may also help with mast cell tumors.  Phantom pain should not cause muscle weakness; unfortunately an MRI is really the only way to check for brain or spinal problems.  If the additional pain medications have been helping then there is hope that adjusting her meds may give her some relief.  

Pam

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15 April 2020 - 9:36 am
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Hey all

Thanks so much for the advice and words of wisdom. Sorry I’ve not updated in a while, and sorry I can only post a brief update right now. Super exhausted and about to get ready to pick her up to transfer to overnight ER vets. 

So last night looked bleak, I prepared for the worst. Today she’s been transferred from ER vets to normal vets by me. She had a peaceful night, no crying or distress. Wound is drier and has been flushed. She’s on a combination of antibiotics and a swab has been sent off to check what bacteria are causing this. Between 7 and 9am she was with me at home while we waited for our vets to open. She seems more alert, she ate some Swedish meatballs, yoghurt and drank water from her bowl. She then proceeded to cry and whine at me to try and get up and MOVE. She eager to be moving around but seems weak in her legs (possibly caused by meds, possibly just general weakness also not eating for days). She had a play confined to her bed but MOANED when she was unable to get up and walk about as normal. She seemed bored and frustrated. I have a makeshift support sling but that wound is vulnerable so can’t put pressure on it right now. Area of breakdown is oozing still. My vet said could just be infected or may be cancer cells present that wouldn’t show up on xrays etc. Fingers and paws crossed its just a crummy infection?? 

She’s been in her normal vets and ate HAM!! She NEVER eats in the vets under normal circumstances. She took an antibiotic orally, rest still IV.

We are checking cost of staying in ER vets again. I asked my vet if I should take out a loan for ongoing treatment, she said hold off for now. The normal vet will set up payment plans for me as I’m a poor student haha. 

Vet is cautious, but I can’t help but feel this is genuine PROGRESS 

Holly, I’m so proud of you. Whatever happens she is one AMAZING dog. Thank you for fighting Holly. smiley_clap

Thanks guys sp_hearticon2

A pawsitive Holsmum xo

Virginia




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15 April 2020 - 10:09 am
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Holly IS fighting….and so are you!!!   Quite frankly I am THRILLED to read this update!!  Yes, cautiously  optimistic, but this is a GREAT UPDATE!!!!

She’s EATING!!!!  YAY!!!😂😀

SHE’S MORE ALERT AND ENGAGED!!!   YAY!!😂😀

HOLLY IS SHOWING SIGNS OF FRUSTRATION AND BEING BORED!!!  YAY!!😂😀

WANTED TO “PLAY”!!!   YAY!!!!

I think you assessment  of her and where she is mentally  and physically  right now is spot on!!!  No doubt she is weak for all the reasons  you noted!

We are sooooo proud of you and Holly for staying  strong and not giving  up!!!  Maybe finally everything is coming  together…..getting the infection addressed….getting her temperature  down….getting her out of pain with the RIGHT combination of meds specific  for her!!

CELEBBRATE  THESE VICTORIES!!   THEY ARE HUGE!!!

Thanks for check we.  We know you jave your hands full so we REALLY  appreciate the update!  

TEAAM HOLLY STRONG!!!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS…..does the skin around  the infection look “good” as far as pink. And “healthy”.not black, right?  Having  the professionals  cleaning  the wound is good.  Sounds like the infection  is what’s causing the oozing.  That should dump as the antibiotics  kick in.  Let us know when the culture  comes back.

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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