Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
Tripawds is your home to learn how to care for a three legged dog or cat, with answers about dog leg amputation, and cat amputation recovery from many years of member experiences.
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Hi all, figured this was the best sub-forum to use as it seemed to have the most common stories. Shortly after new years, our not quite 10 year old lab/shephard mix was limping and seemed to develop a lot of swelling around/above his rear ankle. For a few weeks, we treated it as if it were a sprain or possibly arthritis. We did go to the vet right when it happened, and he advised this. But after those few weeks, clearly something worse was wrong. So we started on the path of x-rays, but the vet had to knock him out to do them, and had to do bloodwork first. The liver counts were too high he said for anestesia, so he was just going to x-ray the ankle. Which he did, and he/we are pretty sure its a bone tumor (sunburst pattern).
I've been reading a lot of these kinds of forums over the past few weeks. So I asked him what the prognosis would be if we had his leg amputated and did/didn't do some kind of chemo afterward. He didn't seem to be hopeful on that, and was hesitant about the dog's liver situation (has hypothyroidism, might have Cushing's), and more importantly, wasn't sure he could walk on just one hind leg. He's 98 pounds. As horrible as the thought is, if he were like 12 or older, I'd just let him go peacefully. But I feel like 10 (not even) isn't old enough to just give up. I have to call him back tomorrow, after he's spoken to another vet/radiologist, to confirm the diagnosis. He seemed to indicate that the best thing for the dog was to keep him comfortble as long as possible. He hasn't been on any pain meds really yet, and we'll probably use them right away if we decide on no surgeries.
Obviously this vet is not an oncologist, and he's a very nice guy and very smart. After I asked him about the amputation, he said that he's almost never had an owner go that route in these cases. Part of what's really beating me up inside is that I feel we've waiting a month or so too long anyway, and the cancer probably has spread too much. I also don't want to put the poor dog through catscans, leg amputation, and possibly chemo to gain a few more months. Aside from what I'm sure is a huge price, I don't think it's humane to do to him.
But if there was a good chance he would live almost another year, I might think differently. Again, due to his weight I'm just concerned that he wouldn't get around well (vet said front leg amput. are better). And I would never forgive myself for putting him through surgeries (which he could die in), and not have any benefit in time.
Appreciate your thoughts, and many commendations on this great web forum!
Thanks for joining, sorry to hear about your pup. What's his name?
Is your vet a surgical/orthopedic specialist? How many amputations has he performed? We ask because these are very important considerations when choosing the right surgeon for amputation surgery. We can only presume he hasn't performed many, at least not on big dogs, because most recovery quickly and adapt well.
We have had members with senior dogs, and some over 200 pounds! Fortis and Tazziedog are just a couple giant breed dogs we've seen survive happily on three legs over the years. Both are gone now but their stories are amazing. Nova the three legged blind Great Dane is still loving life, and it's been over two years since her amputation from osteosarcoma!
The best advice we can suggest is to reframe your thinking and focus on quality of life, not quantity. We are by no means advocating amputation, but it is the only way to remove the pain. Recovery can last a couple weeks, but if your dog is otherwise fit and healthy, he should do well. Whereas if the tumor continues to grow, the pain only gets worse and you will face a traumatic pathological fracture.
Please keep in mind, we are not vets. Please consult a specialist if you can, and best wishes with the difficult decisions you face.
PS: We chose not to put our Jerry through chemotherapy and he loved life on three legs for nearly two years. We attribute his longevtiy to his canine cancer diet and supplements.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I appreciate your vet is a nice guy and very smart but as you say, he is not an oncologist. I would definitely get a second opinion from an oncologist. True, there are no guarantees for the life span of a dog with cancer, or really a dog without cancer either for all that matter. We have had dogs that have lived two, three or more years and others that have sadly died during surgery. Dogs don't come with a time stamp on their butts. The important thing is that bone cancer is very painful. I didn't realize Emily was in such pain until she was livelier the day after her amputation than she was before she went into the hospital. Because they are pack animals dogs will do everything they can to hide pain. In nature the weakest of the animals are picked off. So it is possible that your dog may be in more pain than you realize.
Now, as far as it has seemed to me dogs actually do better with rear leg amputations. Because dogs carry 60% of their weight in the front it stands to reason that it is easier to be a rear leg amputee. Emily was able to run like the wind and jump onto the trampoline after losing her back leg.
I hope that I have not been preachy. It is not my intention. Most people in your (our) circumstances may not pick amputation but I think that is partially due to lack of education about it. On one hand it was horrifying to think that I was going to give someone permission to cut my dog's leg off, on the other hand, I couldn't wait to have the cancer removed. When it came down to it, for us, it was the only thing we could do to give Emily the best chance at life. It is important to remember, too, that dogs don't have the emotional hang ups about amputation that people have.
I don't know anything about the liver thing and I don't pretend to be a doctor (okay, sometimes I act like I think I am) so if you only take one thing from this long, long post, it is this: get a second opinion from an oncologist. No one loves your dog like you do, you will make the right choice.
What is his name and what kind of dog is he? Please keep us informed.
Debra
Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.
Hi and welcome to Tripawds.
First I want to say that you seem to be approaching this the right way- focusing on quality of life for your pup.
All of my vets told me that rear amp dogs tend to do better- as Debra said- dogs carry most of their weight on their front legs. I would definitely get a second opinion on what your vet is telling you. Not because of anything he told you, but because this is a big decision and it sounds like your pup's overall health makes your decision harder. Amputation is a big surgery with risks. Most pups make it through just fine- we have heard of a few who didn't. And the 2 week or so recovery after the surgery can make you question your decision. Many of us had lots of ups and downs- but once past recovery everything was fine.
You might consider reading through Jerry's Required Reading list if you haven't already. It is a compilation of information from this site on what to expect with amputation and recovery.
We may come across has pro-amputation here, but I think that is because it is the path we all chose and what we know. For most of us our dogs did just fine on three. My tri-pug was little so I can't help you with the size- but we have a lot of tripawds here 100 pounds or more. My local friend Cemil is a front amp 150 # Anatolian Shepard who is over two years past his amp for osteosarcoma, and he did not have chemo.
It would seem to me that you would want to confirm that your pup is free of visible cancer mets- which would mean some tests- many have lungs x rayed. The recommended tests depend on the cancer diagnosis. I don't think I would go through amputation without some test showing that the cancer has not visibly meted anywhere. That is what I did in my case.
I know how hard these decisions are. My pug Maggie survived almost 4 years after her amp for mast cell cancer, but she developed some other health issues along the way. She was diagnosed with melanoma last year and because of her overall health I decided against aggressive surgical treatment.
As long as you make your decision with your pup's best interest at heart you can't be wrong.
We are here to help you with whatever path you choose.
Karen and the pugapalooza
hi trek78, welcome to the group. You are faced with many tough decisions I wont deny that. It sounds like you are considering whats best for your pups quality of life. You mentioned that at age 10 (not even) that you felt your pup is too young to just give up, you also mentioned that if he might live almost another year that you might rethink it. Unfortunately, there isnt a vet or a perosn that will be able to pinpoint how much time your pup has regardless of the circumstance. My pup Cooper ( just turned 10 in Jnauary) helped me make the decision to amputate by the will to live and the spirit he showed me. My first vet basically said to put Coop down, everyday I looked into Coops eyes and aside from the pain he showed in his eyes he showed more the will to live so I got a second opinion. The second vet didnt offer much more hope but after discussing Coops habits and abilitieshe was willing to go with the amp if we were. Cooper is no light weight at 117 pounds either and he is a front leg amp which many feel to be the more difficult for a large dog. Cooper is 4 months post op in 5 days, and we have no regrets. He is getting along well on 3 legs and shows great quality of life so far. My advice to you is to look deep into your pups eyes and know and speak to his spirit and decide between the two of you what is best for him. Good luck and please keep us posted.
Coopsdad
Coopsdad/ Kenneth Blackburn
http://cooper.t.....ipawds.com
the monkeydogs only THINK they have invaded the tripawd state
Hi there,
We're so sorry about your pup, we know what a hard situation this is to go through and the decisions are some of the hardest anyone has to make in the lifespan of their beloved pup.
You sound uncertain not just about your dog's ability to cope, but about yours too. That's normal. One thing that can make your decision easier is to talk to a specialist. Although your vet is a nice guy, cancer isn't, and it takes someone who has experience with amputations and cancer therapy to help pawrents make the best decision. It's good that your vet is willing to talk to an oncologist, but if you can talk to them directly that would be ideal, since it sounds like your vet already has his mind made up. I'm also concerned about your vet's comment that front leg amputees have it easier, since dogs carry 60 percent of their weight on their front legs. In our experience, front leggers work harder than rear-leggers.
I would also get a complete workup on your dog to make sure that he doesn't have Cushings or other factors that can complicate amputation recovery and cancer therapy, if you choose to go that route. Has your current vet recommended this? If your dog doesn't have Cushings, losing weight will be a piece of cake (no pun intended!), making his life as a tripawd much easier.
Unfortunately, you are the only one who can decide what's best for your pup. Like Coopsdad suggested, have a conversation with him and ask him what he wants. Listen carefully and you'll find the answer.
If there is anything else we can do to help, let us know OK? Keep us posted.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Jerry, isn't there another member here whose companion has Cushing's? If so, can they maybe help with some answers and info to all these questions that just seem to complicate the decision? These pawrents have a pretty big package to consider. I was just thinking that someone who has walked this walk (Cushing's) might help with that aspect.
Shari, Dakota's wrangler
From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.
Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/
shari said:
Jerry, isn't there another member here whose companion has Cushing's?
I'm drawing a blank right now but I'm pretty sure there is one. Anypawdy recall who it is?
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I'm really sorry for all you & your dog (what's his name?) are going through. I'm a little uncomfortable with your vet's response to potential amputation for suspected OSA. Perhaps he doesn't have experience with appendicular OSA, or is uncomfortable with amputation himself, but it's pretty much the standard of care for pain control. Chemo is not mandatory following amputation. Some dogs surpass the mean by quite a long time, with & without chemo and not all dogs who have chemo do well. Whatever you decide is best, your dogs comfort is most important. Is there a reason, he isn't getting some pain medication now?
As for waiting too long, that's really more of an issue of quality of life/pain control. Statistically, I don't believe there's a difference between early & late amputation and metastasis. There are slower & faster growing tumors, but microscopic metastasis is always assumed. Amputation is not a cure, but it eliminates pain and can extend life.
I know you are concerned with your dog's size....is he a large breed, who's weight is appropriate, or is he overweight? If he's lean, his weight shouldn't be that much of an issue. There are plenty of tripawds who are larger. If he's overweight, you will have to help him loose weight. I think everyone here would agree, rear amputations are easier. There are also plenty of 10y/o plus tripawds, who do just fine.
Is his hypothyroidism under control? Perhaps you should consider an internal medicine specialist who can sort that, as well as the potential Cushings & hepatic issues out for you.
I would ask some questions regarding his liver function. There are various anesthetic agents that can be used if his liver function is compromised... Did the vet simply want to use propofol for the xrays & wasn't comfortable because of one elevated liver value, or is it something more serious? Did your vet tell you he needed a CT scan?He should be able to get by with chest xrays and and an abdominal ultrasound. Is there a reason he needed sedation for the xrays?
I hope you will consider both a second opinion and a surgeon if you decide to proceed with the amputation. There should be an anesthesiologist you can discuss your concerns with, if you see a surgeon.
I know this is overwhelming, but if you can step back & try to sort out these issues separately, it will help. Please don't be shy about requesting a second opinion or asking many questions. You are his voice and you're paying everyone to provide information you understand and can use, to make the best decision for your circumstances.
Please come back to this site for help and take advantage of the resources.
Best of luck,
Cynthia
I meant to ask what part of the country/world you live in. If you are near a teaching hospital, I would definitely suggest going at least for a consult to get a second opinion. They can also handle your concerns regarding liver and thyroid function. I thought teaching hospitals would be outrageously expensive, but I didn't find that to be true. We are fortunate to live within 90 minutes of a fine one, and my dog was eligible for a clinical trial that knocked $750 off our fees. Because of that, I was able to proceed with diagnostics that were advised but likely out of my financial reach.
If you don't live close to a teaching hospital, I believe they still do consults with veterinarians. You might want to seek a second opinioin from a vet who deals a lot with amputation and cancer and then ask them about the possibility of a phone consult with a true oncologist. That might also be a less expensive approach.
No one has mentioned radiation as pain relief. I know it is viable for some situations but I know very little about it. Radiation was mentioned briefly for us, in hopes of shrinking the tumor before surgery, but then it was discarded as an option. But it is known for providing pain relief, especially when surgery is not an option. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that because I really know little about it.
Whatever you decide, good luck to you and your pup and please let the gang here know how he's doing.
Shari
From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.
Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/
Hi all. The dog's name is Chuck, and I saw questions about his weight, he's 97 pounds, pretty hefty. We live in northern new jersey. He's had the hypothyroid for 5 years, and gets pills every day. Last year the thyroid numbers went down a lot, so after testing, they upped the medication. He has kind of developed the pot belly and has a lot more hair falling out than before (caused by pimples). And the liver numbers were fairly high we're told lately, but the vet wasn't keen on putting him through all kinds of more tests for Cushing's, because it's a lot of tests. Including possibly liver biopsy. I think it was their standard procedure to use propofol on large dogs for many x-rays, I guess. He didn't do chest x-rays, because he felt once he saw the leg tumor it was pretty clear what it was, and wanted to wait for us before doing more and charging us for them.
Our vet had a radiologist consult on the x-ray, and he confirmed that it's osteosarcoma. Though he said it could always be "benign," though I doubt that and it would still have to result in amputation eventually. Also the radiologist reported slight arthritis in both legs. We haven't used any pain medication on the dog, outside of aspirin early on, because we were waiting for liver results (had been given 10 days antibiotics). Anyway, we're going to start giving him some kind of medication (pain/anti-inflammatory) tomorrow, can't remember what kind he said. The dog actually doesn't walk too bad, it's mostly trouble getting up.
Our vet offered to refer us to a local vet that has an oncologist and orthopedist on hand. He's very supportive regardless of what we choose, he said he'd help any way he could. I would say that his mind isn't made up, but he's been upfront that there's a limit to his capabilities. However, he's always been a vet who was not fond of doing surgeries. The dog has had cysts and has a lot of warts, but he didn't recommend removing them. The idea of amputation seemed a little drastic/foreign to him, that's all. We know a few people who had big dogs and they had an amputation, and they simply said to me they wouldn't do it again. The dog didn't last long enough after that, and didn't get around too well.
I should also mention it's really my father's dog, and I would probably have a very difficult time convincing him of putting the dog through more scans, surgery, surgical pain, and surgical recovery/rehab. We have a lot of steps the dog has to use to go outside, and he's very concerned that he wouldn't be able to use them. He also can't afford a surgery like that I'd doubt. I'd probably pay anyway. If it were me, I might try the specialist but I think my father is far too fearful of all that to do so.
Here's a picture from 2009, to get a sense of the size of him…
[Image Can Not Be Found]
PS: Don't think you can do anything about it, but this site is blocked at my office (Baracuda filter), probably due to the connotation of the "tripod" name.
Hello and welcome to the Tripawd website.
Coming from a vet tech point of view, I wanted to point out a few things. First off, you do have to be more careful when a dog with liver or other organ issues goes under anesthesia. However, most vets will do the surgery despite as they trust their vet techs to stay focused on the dog and the levels of anesthesia during surgery.
The biggest thing is that it sounds like your vet is nervous about the whole idea of amputation. Most likely this is because he doesn't have a lot of experience with it. The average vet doesn't have a lot of experience with amputations as it's not a very common surgery in the regular vet field. I work in a shelter (a local humane society) and there are many dogs that come in with issues like being hit by a car or being born with a bad leg that we are forced to amputate. Because of that, our vet has no issue going into the surgery. Dog amputations are very bloody. And for a vet who isn't very experienced it's a very stressful surgery because of this factor.
With a dog of his size, he would do really well with a wheelchair on the side that he could use to keep up his stamina. You said that the radiologist saw some arthritis and this would also help ease some of the pressure on the other leg if you go through the amputation.
Basically, my biggest suggestions is that you go to a vet who is experienced with oncology. You will want to do a full blood work up if you haven't already and a Cushings test which takes several hours as you have to take blood tests before and after an injection. If you decide against treating what it ends up being, I would strongly suggest pain medication for the rest of his life.
Please keep us updated!
Lucky Amputation 10/29/09 Adoption 12/5/09
Jedi Amputation 12/18/09 Adoption 02/04/10
"I am not afraid, I was born to do this." Joan of Arc
trek78 said:
…this site is blocked … probably due to the connotation of the "tripod" name.
Do you know something we don't? What negative connotations are there about tripawds, or tripods for that matter? It is more likely bloacked because we offer discussion forums and a chat room , two red flags for Barracuda's usage policies for "blocking access to Web sites and Internet applications that are not related to business."
You can always try visiting via a free proxy server, though your network's Barracuda cop may have those blocked as well. But unfortunately you are correct, there is nothing we can do about it.
Chuck is a beautiful big boy. Sounds like he is quite a trooper. Best wishes with whatever you and your father decide.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I just want to say welcome! And to say what a handsome guy he is! I'm not experienced in this department – I'm in the deformed leg category.
But of luck and lots of warm wishes!
Comet's mom
(and monkeybutt-bunny's mom!!!!)
Hi Chucks' family,
It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place. Your vet and your dad sound a little "old school" about cancer, treatment and the effects of treatment.
I have to say after having my beloved boy having had the surgery and chemo, it is wonderful to still have him here, 6 months later. My dog was about 120 lbs before surgery and now is 98 lbs. The chemo doesn't affect dogs the same way as people, because they aren't dosed the same way. So at least in our case, the reaction to it was pretty mild. The worst being the second to last treatment, he experienced shivers for a few hours. Mostly, he would be off his food for a day and want to sleep. Within 24 hours he was back up and happy and ready to go.
As far as the surgery, maybe your dad would be interested in reading some of our stories? It seemed overwhelming and barbaric to me when I first considered it, but after reading through this website, and watching some video's, I started to get the idea that it was my boy's only real option. It was good that I came to that decision when I did, because within the week of it he had a site fracture and would have had to be euthanized. That is our story, there are so many different ones out there, but that is what happened to us.
I am not qualified to say who is a good candidate or who isn't, I can only be here to tell you what I know about what worked for my boy. I wish you and Chuck so much luck, and I hope that whatever happens he and your family have the best of whatever time is left. Welcome to this forum!
Elizabeth and Sammy
Diagnosed with osteosarcoma in the right front leg 8/23/10,
leg fractured 8/27/10,
leg amputated 8/30/10
http://sammyand.....pawds.com/
I couldn't begin to say how special Sammy is to us. Living and laughing with and loving this wonderful boy is priceless.
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