Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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My 10 year old lab got diagnosed with osteosarcoma on 7/30/19. Came as a major shock to us as he has been incredibly active and healthy. I thought his small limp in June was something but he was just diagnosed at that time with arthritis. In July, the limp become more prevalent and we took him in and the xray confirmed my suspicion. At that time, my family sat down and discussed treatment options. We decided on pain meds and to continue the arthritis meds he was put on in June. She gave him 6 to 12 months. I did take him to a 2nd vet the 2nd week of August. This vet practices traditional and Chinese medicine and Jack was put on a couple different herbal mixtures. It was also suggested that I start prepping meals to help fight the cancer (antioxidant, non processed, etc). This 2nd vet gave me some hope! He didn't palpate any enlarged lymph nodes, lungs sounded good and Jack had no labored breathing and he said his tongue looked good (apparently that is a big thing in holistic therapy). He also wouldn't give us a "time frame" for Jack.
Jack started having bursts of energy after starting the herbal therapy. He has been eating well, demanding attention, wanting to go on rides, etc. Over the past few days, the limp has worsened and he pants after walking. I know he has discomfort that has worsened. He keeps looking at me like "why won't my leg work right?" I talked to my family yesterday and said maybe we should consider the amputation and continue the herbal therapy. I got a mixture of answers. I called my primary vet and she won't amputate unless I proceed with chemo and radiation. We see the holistic vet Thursday for a recheck. I want to see if he will do a chest xray to see if there is anything that shows up. I know micro metastases won't show up and the lungs are usually the first site. I am wondering if this vet would consider amputation, herbal therapies and pain meds? I am not ready to lose my boy and I don't think he is ready to go either.
Any thoughts or anyone who has done something similar?
thanks
Jill
Jill I'm in the Tripawds Chat right now if you want to talk. Back in a sec with some feedback.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi Jill, welcome. Your love for Jack shines through, he sounds like such a great pup. I'm so glad he's been doing well until now.
But I'll be honest: find a new traditional vet. I'm not going to pull any punches, but any vet who refuses to amputate because you want to opt out of chemo is not a vet I would want for my pets. Chemo is still optional, and many, many people here who opt out still get lots of quality time with their pets. If that vet cannot understand that you don't want to, or cannot do it, then get another one. That's just not considering the client's own beliefs or finances, and it makes me upset to hear there is a vet who is doing that to their patients. Grrr.
Now, from what you are describing, Jack is showing serious pain signals . Osteosarcoma pain is the worst there is, and it's time to decide: try palliative radiation therapy (or even electrochemotherapy), or take the leg and hope for the best. Then there is the option you probably don't want, but it's to get him heavily medicated and prepare to say goodbye.
He can have the amputation and you can still chose to treat with Chinese medicine or whatever you wish afterward if that holistic vet is good with it. If not, again, find another vet. We are happy to help you locate a good one who will help Jack. The important thing is to get rid of that horrific pain before his leg shatters and you are forced to decide on the spot.
Please let us know how we can support you OK? Keep us posted.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Thank you for your response. My heart is absolutely breaking right now. I always loved the traditional vet. We have been going there for a few years. When she gave me his grim diagnosis, I really couldn't process it. Then I started thinking about it as the nurse that I am and dove into loads of research. I called her back when I came across the homeopathic route and she was not supportive of it at all. She said "don't be snowed, don't let them take your money", etc. I told her I was educated, used some homeopathy myself and had seen success in human patients with various things. She still was resistant. She wanted me to go to the university vet hospital for an eval. I have a friend who is a vet tech and she said they would push surgery, chemo and radiation. We opted out of that.
Today, I called and asked about the amputation and got the response of what I said before. I am hoping to discuss it with the homeopathic vet on Thursday. I am sure this will entail possibly a chest xray, then labs since he is considered a senior. I hate waiting day after day. I know he is hurting.
Hi Jack and Jill,
It's unfortunate your traditional vet is taking this position. I live in a small community where my cat was diagnosed by her traditional vet who suspected cancer and scheduled an immediate amputation. Although qualified to perform surgeries he first consulted with big-city veterinary surgeons who are "specially trained and certified to perform advanced general or orthopedic surgeries."
After the amputation, Mona went to an alternative vet who does chiropractic work and prescribed power mushrooms. This alternative vet requires the animal to also be under the care of a traditional vet.
Perhaps you could consult with the university or find a veterinary surgeon. You've obviously done your research and Jack needs you as his advocate. He's obviously loved!!
Kerren and Tripawd Kitty Mona
Jack and Jill! Love the combo name!!
We understand all the horrible roller coaster of emotions involved when you first hear the diagnosis. We know the fear, the uncertainty and the mental and physical exhaustion when dealing with this.
While I'm sure your Vet was well meaning, I cannot ditto Jerry enough about "not pulling any punches" when expressing her concerns about what the Bet told you. I can only tell you I've been on the site six years (Jerry obviously since inception), and I have NEVER heard of a Vet give that kind of ultimatum! There are NO guarantees one way or another with...or without... chemo.
What we have seen here is people proceeding with amputation (the only way to get rid of the brutal bone pain) and pursue holistic/alternative, either with chemo, or without.
Yes, get a second opinion with an Orthopedic Surgeon, as well as your Holistic Bet. Now, of your Holistic Vet is opposed to amputation, then you may want to pursue another Holistic Practitioner.
What pain meds is Jack on now? Most here are given Tramdol and/or Gabapentin.
There is an Alternative/Holistic person that many jave ised here. Dr Charles Loop. I believe out of North Carolina. And if I'm correct (and may not ve), years ago he was just suggesting holistic approach, then he evolved into amputation PLUS Holostic.
Another suggestion, read The Dog Cancer Survival Guide. Written by two Bets with a good combo of holistic plis conventional.
No ,matter ehyat, we are here to support you with any choice you make for your beloved Jack to give him a pajn frre quality life.
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Oh my! im so sorry that with all this going on that was the ultimatum you recieved! i have to agree with everyone above. As much as you may love your conventional vet it sounds like its time to change things up. I can tell you from experience that risking a fracture isnt worth it. There are plenty of great vets out there that will happily amputate without chemo.
Good luck at the holistic vet on Thursday, im sure he will have a more appropriate suggestion. You clearly have jacks best interest inmind no matter what your PC vet thinks. Go with your gut, hes your baby and you know him best.
Hugs ❤ Bev, nurse Moe cat, Autumn's Angel Roane & Angel dog Gypsy 🐾
My sweet soulmate Roane was diagnosed with osteo in June of 2019. Had a rear leg amp on July 2nd & crossed the rainbow bridge to be with her sister Gypsy on the first day of Autumn Sept 23 2019.
amputation gets rid of the pain ... as long as someone understands that there are still likely metastases (which it sounds like you do) which chemo may OR may not delay ... I don't really get it the opposition.
For whatever it's worth, we are using a vet teaching hospital and they did NOT push amputation at all. In fact we had several long whole team conversations about the pros and the cons ... and in the end they let me choose (as they should) but knowing them (they are also my regular vet) my gut feeling was that they were more pro not amputating. but again, they let ME choose and once I chose they did everything thing that they could to support me and Grover. Our rehab vet (also at the university) is the one that got an herb program together for us in addition to our chemo. But I'm sure that each hospital (or vet within a hospital even!) is different.
For whatever reason if you choose not to go the amputation route, it MAY be worth asking about palliative radiation. We tried this to buy us analgesia while we made a decision and we were SHOCKED at the results. It was (2) doses about 12 hours apart and after the second dose he acted nearly pain free and got off most of his meds. Unfortunately he felt a little TOO good and fractured his leg playing which ended up leading us to our amputation decision.
I think that it's ok to have different vets for different reasons and different vets have different strengths and weaknesses. When people get sick they often times have more than one doctor and our human GPs don't do it all ... the same can be true for animals and that's ok. Our vet that is great with preventative care doesn't need to be the best at cancer options, but we should feel supported in seeking second opinions.
I did call back to the holistic vet's office yesterday and vented my frustration with our traditional vet as well as sobbed to them about how I think he had done something to his leg over the weekend. They consulted with the vet and increased his tramadol up to 100mg twice daily (big boy) until we see them tomorrow. I told the tech that the receptionist told me they wouldn't have time to do an xray or discuss more. The tech said, we will make the time. We may have to wait but hoping to get this all discussed tomorrow. Jack is also on galliprant for arthritis as well as the two herbal mixtures that he is taking twice daily. My husband went from a no to amputation to mixed feelings and wants to weigh options tomorrow.
My boy seems a little more chilled out since the tramadol dose is up. Not sedated at all but he is panting a little off on and when weight bearing. When he is lying down or eating, he doesn't seem to be uncomfortable at all. I do think that we are going to see if the holistic vet will manage all his care from now on.
Thank you all for your suggestions and concern. I am still an emotional wreck. Been a nurse for 20 years and have seen hundreds of patients pass but I struggle more with my animals.
For me, the period that you are in (needing to make some sort of decision), was the most emotionally tormenting. I was an absolute wreck and basket case. I don't honestly know what to say to make it better ... but you are not alone. For me, being told "there's no wrong answer" was actually harder because I wanted there to be a clear answer to choose. Once we had information and made a decision it brought us a little peace -- I hope that you will get that tomorrow.
Pain wise we are on galliprant as well, but our vet ended up adding in gabapentin and amantadine. I'm not sure what worked (or maybe it was just time) but that combo really did well for us. Maybe some additional drugs/options to as your vet about.
beachmom3 said
I am still an emotional wreck...
That is understandable, and to be expected...just don't let it show around Jack! He will follow your lead.
This is why we say Be More Dog , and that is not just some silly saying.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
My long time vet, a former farm vet of many years, recommended euthanasia. I moved his care to an oncologist and a new regular vet. My boy is doing pretty well 3 months out.
Our primary vet originally misdiagnosed Bruce and had us go and see an orthopedic surgeon, that doctor diagnosed osteosarcoma and suggested we consider amputation and chemo. He was also against doing the amputation if we weren't going to follow up with chemo. He felt it was unfair to Bruce to have to adjust to life on 3 legs with a survival estimate of 4 to 6 months. We did not proceed with that doctor but went instead to a teaching hospital and dealt with some wonderful people who let us make the decisions. We did end up doing chemo and we have been very fortunate to be just over 3 years since his surgery and he's still doing great, but I often think that if I had it to do over again, I would probably opt for amputation and no chemo, mainly because Bruce was very stressed by vet visits and by his 3rd week post amputation he was 100% back to himself and had very little difficulty in adapting to being a tripawd.
brucesmom said
Our primary vet originally misdiagnosed Bruce and had us go and see an orthopedic surgeon, that doctor diagnosed osteosarcoma and suggested we consider amputation and chemo. He was also against doing the amputation if we weren't going to follow up with chemo. He felt it was unfair to Bruce to have to adjust to life on 3 legs with a survival estimate of 4 to 6 months.
Thank you Bruce's mom & Riot's mama too, for sharing your experience. What a surprise. We sometimes hear about old-school primary care vets who say amputation isn't an option for many dogs, but had no idea that oncologists sometimes say basically the same thing and outright discourage amputation if a client isn't willing to do chemo. Woah.
This is something we are going to work on as an organization; getting the word out that a pain-free life on three (which rarely takes more than a few weeks of adjustment time), is as much a gift as going the whole chemo route. And of course that chemo is not right for every pet. Soooo many members here exceed those grim prognosis numbers without doing chemo, they need to know about it. We are definitely going to work on this in onco vet circles.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
We had a good appointment today with the traditional/holistic vet. He was super pleased at how Jack presented (energetic, looking healthy but a limp). He does not think he fractured his leg at all over the weekend by the way he was moving around and so happy. I think the additional Tramadol is helping for sure.
We discussed everything and he gave us plenty of time to ask questions. Jack has gained 3 lbs in a month due to my cooking meals that are protein and anti oxidant filled. His coat is super shiny and his breath doesn't stink anymore (I think this is from the herbal therapy). We did a chest xray. No signs of mets! I do realize micro mets are possible but he thinks Jack is a great candidate for amputation and continuing holistic therapy as well as pain management . He also said he would support any decision we made...even if it is to continue palliative care. I asked this vet if he would take over all aspects of care and he said for sure! That made me happy. He even hugged both of us when we left. 🙂
He is reserving a spot for us on Tuesday if we want to amputate. We just have to let them know before Saturday. I am leaning towards it....
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