Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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He has been diagnosed solely by the x ray with no biopsies of any sort.
I was asked to start a new thread in this forum, in case anyone can help me.
I was thinking posting in the "Ask the Vet" forum. Don't know that our volunteer Vet would be able to tell much. It's not really anything we as members could make a determination. Obviously we aren't Vets and can never give Vet advice.
Anyway, our volunteer Vet may be able to offer some insight jist from the posted picture.
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Jerry told me to do so, so I did.
Whatever one of you "pros" at this tell me I should do, I will.
I am lost and looking for those who can steer me rightly on this unfamiliar path.
I'm so glad you posted here, thank you! We will do our best to help any way we can. I agree you may want to post in Ask a Vet if you'd like but again your vet oncologist is the best person to go over it with you. More in the afternoon tomorrow, I'll be back then...
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
That vet is not terribly helpful.
Talks too fast, especially since I'm hearing impaired, goes off on tangents and then I forget what I even asked in the first place.
I had a near fatal TBI and my short term memory is awful, and information overload just shuts me down.
I do appreciate that she knows so much but the info barrage just overwhelms me.
If I could've gotten answers from that vet, I wouldn't be here, looking for help.
I really wanted the stereotactic radiation plan but she doesn't seem to do it.
Wants the amp no matter what.
Told me to ask whomever I take him to for the surgery about Immunocidin and every other option.
Okay, so *maybe* he'll have a pathological fracture 9 months from now but what if it works and he *doesn't*?
This is why I am SO frustrated.
I am my dog's advocate/warrior but the powers that be just send me somewhere else to have their foregone conclusions enacted.
I just found this place, which is a scary distance but I would go if they think they can help him.
Trying to find "reasons" for a full amp versus a partial one and, considering his CT was totally clear.
These vets say a partial amp helps balance the dog even if it never gets a prosthetic.
If that can be done and he still gets the chemo and chance at more time, it makes sense to me.
I want him to have the best outcome possible and Trupanion will pre-approve anything he can get.
Maybe I'm asking too much, but there is really nothing "too much" as far as he's concerned.
[I'm sorry I'm a pain in the butt but this my baby boy]
So, I know this is all very overwhelming, especially if you are on your own. Do you have a friend you can take along so you have someone who gets the same info you do, and can discuss it in a slower manner after the appointment?
Okay, so *maybe* he'll have a pathological fracture 9 months from now but what if it works and he *doesn't*?
This is why I am SO frustrated.
I understand. Everything about this journey is a leap of faith. No matter what treatment you chose, there are no guarantees. But that is like life itself right? None of us know if we will wake up tomorrow or make it through the end of the day. All we can do is put one foot in front of the other (or, paw!).
Amputation is the standard treatment for osteosarcoma. It is the only thing that will get rid of the tumor. A full limb amputation may or may not be required depending on the tumor location. A prosthetic may or may not be viable depending on that location.
Stereotactic radiation therapy (SRT) is not offered everywhere. When it is given, as in Hazel's case, it can have positive, pain-relieving effects for a while. But it won't last forever. Eventually the lung metastasis happens or the leg fractures. Then it's a bad scene. Amputation is a way to avoid going through the agonizing treatment decisions all over again. SRT is ideal for dogs who are not good candidates for amputation surgery.
Regarding Canapp Sports Med. They are amazing orthopedic vets. But they are not oncologists. You can listen to their webinars about prosthetics , here:
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Thank you Jerry.
All I have is a 78 year old husband who can't remember things but constantly interrupts and talks over everyone.
When I was on the phone trying desperately to understand all that the vet was saying really fast, he was trying to wave his hands and interrupt to "ask an important question" that really wasn't.
All that was accomplished was to confuse me even more.
He understands none of this and thinks they can just somehow "cut out" that part of Hrafi's leg and "get the cancer".
I'm on my own, here.
Along with the other issues I have, I am also hearing impaired and rely on seeing what people are saying to fully "get it".
The past two years of everyone covering their mouths has been a living nightmare.
I pretty much just stopped talking to anyone outside of my house as it only led to confusion and frustration.
Now, when I need to fully understand what is being said more than any other time in my life, I get a befuddling fast paced phone call or a covered face.
It sounds tough, I'm so sorry. And I'm thinking that you would run into the same issues no matter which clinic you went to. So why not start with the clinic you're working with now? Here's what I'm thinking: many pet clinics have "social workers" if you will, that act as a liaison between the pet parent and the vet. If you're comfortable calling the clinic and asking if someone can be an intermediary between you and the vet, it would help you make a decision you can be comfortable with.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
The last thing the oncology vet said was that they don't do surgeries, find someplace else for an amp, and that there "probably oncologists closer to you" so I don't even know if they'll do his radiation or not.
He freaked out in terror when they tried to x-ray him and even though we found the level of meds he needs to be safe to handle, I get the feeling they don't want to deal with him.
I am so stressed out I'm to the point of shutting down.
We know you must be exasperated beyond words.
We can tell though, you ARE a strong advocate for your sweet boy. And even though at the moment you feel like shutting down (and we certainly understand those emotions), we know your love for your pup is so strong, you will get focused again on a path forward. It's certainly "normal" to just want to throw your hands up and give up. But we also kmow thst those feelings are temporary and do disappas things become clear. Right now you in limbo as far as what ro do and that is a defeatist feeling.
But we are gojng to pull you through and get you jnto a more empowered, solution oriented state of mind, okay??
So thank you for sharing your circumstances and the hurdles you are facing. It helps us kmow how we can better support you.
So from what I'm reading, the specific need you jave right now is to get clarity on options s in terms we "layman" can understand. Medical professionals can talk in such jibber sometimes we have no clue what they are saying! They may be brilliant at what they do, but their ability to connect with us sometimes can ge awful!
So let's try chunking things down again by writing out what you know so far, okay? While you have lots of "issues " going on, husband, masks, etc. let's get to the real nitty gritty of what's best for your pup. One thing that may help is just knowing again, there are NO certainties and everything has a risk.
#1. You know SRT is not offered everywhere. As Jerry said, a fracture "may" take place at anytime. That goes with the territory of osteo if untreated whether you do SRT or not. That just can possibly increase the chances.
#2. A prosthetic "may" be an option depending on where the tumor is located, etc. Only a professional can advise you on that. See Jerry's link. It would require a lot of follow up for fittings, maybe adjustments, etc.
#3. Jerry's advice about an "intermediary " to help with the consults is a wonderful idea. It can ge a friend, a Vet tech, etc. The lack of properly being able to communicate is leaving you with more questions than answers. Have your husband write down any questions he may have.ahead of time.
#4 As far as "dealing with your dog", take rhat off the tavle . Vets know how to tell with all sorts of different dogs....muzzles....relaxer sedative....whatever it takes....they know what to do. REGARDLESS of the path forward, there will most likely be more xrays, etc and the Vets will be able to handle it.
. So focus on those four tasks/thoughts for now. Let go of past experiences and frustrations . Let's try and start fresh with some outside helpers, okay?
((((((((((Hugs)))))))
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
I just thought of Hrafi when I read about a promising new limb-salvage procedure that's being pioneered at the University of Virginia Vet Teaching Hospital Oncology Department. Not sure how far it is from you but if you are not leaning toward amputation, it's something you might want to consider. They have a clinical trial for it but you must enroll BEFORE amputation.
https://vetmed......osteo.html
Histotripsy is a novel treatment that mechanically breaks down tissues and can potentially induce the immune system to attack cancer cells. This study aims to evaluate the efficacy of histotripsy to treat dogs with OS, to ultimately advance the development of histotripsy as a non-surgical limb salvage treatment option for OS and an immunotherapy treatment against metastatic disease for OS.
Eligibility
Dogs of any age, weight, sex, or breed, with diagnosis of appendicular osteosarcoma diagnosed via cytology or biopsy
Owners have elected standard-of-care treatment for osteosarcoma – limb amputation and chemotherapy (chemotherapy may be administered at another veterinary facility)
Free from other systemic illness
A more clinical description:
Histotripsy Ablation of Bone Tumors: Feasibility Study in Excised Canine Osteosarcoma Tumors
Abstract
Osteosarcoma (OS) is a primary bone tumor affecting both dogs and humans. Histotripsy is a non-thermal, non-invasive focused ultrasound method using controlled acoustic cavitation to mechanically disintegrate tissue.In this study, we investigated the feasibility of treating primary OS tumors with histotripsy using a 500-kHz transducer on excised canine OS samples harvested after surgery at the Veterinary Teaching Hospital at Virginia Tech. Samples were embedded in gelatin tissue phantoms and treated with the 500-kHz histotripsy system using one- or two-cycle pulses at a pulse repetition frequency of 250 Hz and a dosage of 4000 pulses/point. Separate experiments also assessed histotripsy effects on normal canine bone and nerve using the same pulsing parameters.
After treatment, histopathological evaluation of the samples was completed. To determine the feasibility of treating OS through intact skin/soft tissue, additional histotripsy experiments assessed OS with overlying tissues. Generation of bubble clouds was achieved at the focus in all tumor samples at peak negative pressures of 26.2 ± 4.5 MPa.
Histopathology revealed effective cell ablation in treated areas for OS tumors, with no evidence of cell death or tissue damage in normal tissues. Treatment through tissue/skin resulted in generation of well-confined bubble clouds and ablation zones inside OS tumors. Results illustrate the feasibility of treating OS tumors with histotripsy.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
That's 8 hours away from me down in Roanoke.
I went there many years ago to rescue an Ibizan Hound and it was a nightmare.
🙁
He does have an appointment next week for the fancy oncology hospital in Gaithersburg.
They want his records but they intend to do their own assessment of him.
Hopeful.
Oh gosh that's far! OK, well glad he has the other visit. Here's an article about how to request medical records so they have everything:
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Glad you are moving forward. Write down all your questions and what you want as an outcome from the consult. Hopefully you can take someone with you to help with all the challenges that make communication difficult. Also, if you have a way of recording the session, that would be really helpful. It's a great tool for when you get home and can slow down to focus and really digest what the Vet said.
We'll all hope for a ,pawsitive outcome for you. Maybe with their assessment they can confirm one way or another what is going on in that xray.
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
I'm allowed to go in with him.
He has to fast in case they want to do tests on him.
I'm hoping they are bold and aggressive and do crazy things to save him.
He deserves the best that can be had.
They've already requested all his records so that's taken care of.
My only fear now is bad weather.
If I have to 4WD through ice and snow, we're going.
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