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Tyson the Saint Bernard's Journey - Apprehensive on Chemo.
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Member Since:
23 March 2023
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12 April 2023 - 2:39 am
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Hi all, wanted to start off by saying what a wonderful community this is. Got rid of a lot of our apprehensions before putting our dog through amputation. This forum has been an invaluable resource and I hope our dogs story may also help somebody some day. 

 

Our dog Tyson is an 8 year old male Saint Bernard and was unfortunately diagnosed with osteosarcoma three weeks ago. He’s always been a happy and healthy dog. He did have hip dysplasia as a pup which we operated on when he was about a year old. His gait wasn’t the best post surgery but he was happy and was pain free and loved his walks. We started to notice a limp out of the blue towards the end of January and took him to the vet immediately. They suspected a sprain and even did an X-ray and the doc said there may be signs of osteoporosis and to keep an eye on him and bring him back if it doesn’t improve. Fast forward another month and a half, he initially did get better on meds (painkillers in hindsight) but then was back to the same limp if not worse. We did a CT scan and the vet called us back to tell us it looked like cancer. It was one of the most surreal things to hear and our entire family was just completely in shock and anguish. When we went to pick him up the doctor told us amputation was the only option, I remember the words coming out of his mouth and I was just waiting for what seemed like an eternity for him to say we could try something else but those words never came. 

 

Frantically googling led me here and I’m so glad I found tripawds because it put all of us at a bit more ease doing the surgery. The biopsy confirmed it was osteosarcoma and the CT scans of the chest seemed to be normal. We also did an ultrasound of his abdomen and everything seemed normal except for his spleen which was non homogenous.  We ended up amputating his right hind leg exactly a week after finding out on the 30th of April. The oncologist recommended an FNAC of the spleen but as this would require him to be put under anaesthesia we did not do this as yet given he just finished surgery and is quite uneasy still. We visited him right after surgery but he was out cold however he seemed to be trying to walk on his own later in the day. We went back again the next day and he was just crying the whole time which was  really difficult to watch. The vet kept him for a week and we tried to see him as much as we could without causing him too much separation anxiety. He seemed to be doing better each day. We finally brought him home on Friday the 7th (5 days ago) and he seemed more at ease and wanted to move around quite a lot which was good. We used a harness to help him up the first few days and to support him while walking in the garden outside. The last three days he’s been able to move around completely on his own without any trouble which has been very reassuring for us. Our worst fear was because he was so large (65 kilos/145 lbs pre op) it would be very difficult for him to walk on his own but he seems to be doing extremely well in that regard. 

 

What has been a quite unsettling is he seems to be getting very restless after taking his meds. We’ve noticed it usually starts about an hour or so after he takes his meds and he cannot find a comfortable spot to sit and this is much more pronounced at night. It’s difficult to see because his breathing becomes very fast paced and heavy and this goes on for many hours. I was sitting next to him two days ago while this was happening and he kept putting his paw on me and crying and I was rubbing his belly to try and calm him down. He then started to lick his wound from the pain and I moved my hands away because I know he might get a bit snappy if I try to touch him while doing that. Unfortunately when he turned around the first thing he saw was my hand in the air and went straight for it. The bite was very painful but I feel terrible because he was very very upset after realising what he did. While he has been great in terms of being able to get around on his own after surgery he has been on edge at certain times of the day especially after the meds. We are all also a bit on edge as he gets very restless and snappy at times. He would do anything for food but is quite disinterested now. He prefers lying outside most of the day/night which was not really the case before (we did put down a lot of carpet to make it easier for him to get around). It was quite easy to coax him into coming back inside with food earlier but now he just won't budge.

 

The meds he was/is on I’m listing below, he had a UTI when they discharged him so there are meds prescribed for that as well. 

  • Cefpodoxime- 200mg (1.5-0-1.5) wf/af for 5 days
  • Panta d. 40mg (1.5-0- 0) before food for 3 days
  • Relaxyzyme (1-0-1) wf/af for 5 days
  • Tramadol- 100mg one tab as an sos
  • Ocaxin - 12 ml twice a day for 1 month
  • Minipress- 5 mg (2.5 25) wf/af for 4 days

concern 2: for uti

  • Urosupport (2-0-1) wf/af for 2 weeks

He had a slightly red paw when he came home from the vet which turned swollen the next day so we had to take him back two days later. They said it was eczema and  had become infected. They asked us to remove the Relaxyzyme and added Rutazor twice a day for 10 days. 

 

After communicating with the vet about how restless he was getting they switched the meds again to:

  • Tramadol 100mg (2-0-2) for 3 days
  • Trazadone 50mg (2-0-2) for 3 days
  • Rutazor (1-0-1) for 3 days
  • Continue with Ocaxin
  • Continue with Urosupport

He still seems extremely restless even with the new meds and we have not given him Trazadone after the first night which was yesterday as we had read about possible concerns with mixing Tramadol and Trazadone. I’ve noticed he’s started to chew on things from time to time which he didn’t do before as well (anxiety?). 

 

Our main worry is that the vet and the oncologist I had spoken to recommended starting Carboplatin or at least trying a single dose to see how he does. Given his temperament lately we are not sure if putting him through chemo is the right choice at this time. He is scheduled to get his stitches removed tomorrow which is also when they wanted to start on the first dose of Carboplatin. We are thinking of not going through with it right away as it might be too stressful for him. We had also read about being careful on exposure to bodily fluids 48-72 hours post IV. We are worried that if he chooses to sleep in the garden (where he poops and pees) it would be pretty much impossible to force him back inside in those first 48-72 hours with how he is currently. 

 

It has been quite an emotional rollercoaster with many sleepless nights. While we’re happy he can move around on his own now, we are very unsure about chemotherapy and worried about his mental state. We were initially comfortable trying chemo but seeing him like this makes us think otherwise at least for now. We are getting him a mobility wheelchair so he can start going on his longer walks again. The walks were the highlight of his day so hopefully that lifts his spirits up a little.

 

Has anyone here had similar issues post operation? Our biggest fear is him becoming more distressed, anxious and aggressive by putting him through anything more. This is such a difficult choice to make and we just want him to live a happy life for whatever time he may have left. 

The Rainbow Bridge



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12 April 2023 - 10:32 am
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Varun and Tyson, welcome. Your future posts won't need to wait for approval so post away.

We are so glad you found us, thank you for the kind words about the community, I'm so glad we could be here to ease your worries.

Can you tell me what country you are in? The only meds I'm recognizing are Tramadol and Trazadone. Are there other names listed on the bottles?

It's my understanding that neither of those meds are adequate pain management for amputation recovery. Tramadol is now proven to be ineffective for managing severe, acute pain. And Traz is just a sedative, which could make his behavior worse if he hates feeling out of it, and still feels pain. It will not do a thing to control pain.

Everything you are describing as far as his behavior is pointing to pain signals from unaddressed amputation surgery pain.

If he has not been prescribed Gabapentin (also called Neurontin, Gralise, Horizant), and a stronger pain control med like Amantadine, now is the time to call and get some. Get that pain under control before you do anything else like chemo. Call your vet asap and request better pain control, be sure to let them know about his behavior. Amputation surgery recovery is not easy, and there is a level of discomfort involved even with great pain management , but behaviors like biting and snapping, and wanting to be away from people when a dog is usually not like that, all point to uncontrolled pain.

I hope this helps. Please keep us posted OK?

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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12 April 2023 - 3:27 pm
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So sorry you are having such a rough time with your sweet Tyson.

As you can see from Jerry's reply, this is the best place for sport, understanding  AND invaluable information,  especially  concerning pain management !.

Can only ditto Jerry.  Get that pain under control  first with the right meds, then you can address chemo.  Right now he needs to feel better first. 

Dr. Downing is a pain management   expert.  Here is a link to an interview Tripawds conducted  that may help you as upu advocate for vetter pain medicine. 

    https://tripawd.....ve-better/

 

Remember,  your Tyson just had MAJOR surgery, has a miserable UTI,  all while trying to adjust to three and probably in a lot of pain.

Curious wh Tyson had to stay at the Vet for a week. Is all, not always, dogs stay one or two nights.   Were there any other concerns they were deaIong with?

And congrats to Tyson to be avle to move around on his own👏

We'll be waiting  to hear back about getting his pain under  control and getting him feeling better  and then we can address all chemo issues should you go that route.

Hang in there!  

Hugs 

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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13 April 2023 - 2:00 am
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Hi everyone, thanks for responding so quick with all the great information.

I am in India and from the meds he’s currently on they do not mention any other names unfortunately. The Uro Support contains extracts of Rahmannia root, pumpkin seed, wild yam, dandelion, soy protein, saw palmetto, cranberry and vit c. I also made a typo, the syrup we are giving him is Ocoxin by Vivaldis (complementary therapy for cancer). 

We just got back from the vet and we mentioned Gabapentin and Amantadine. The vet has taken out the Tramadol and Trazodone and has prescribed Gabapentin and Firocoxib. We feel terrible he’s been in so much pain but really hoping the new meds make him comfortable. The vet also suggested some CBD oil twice a day. We did give him a little CBD oil last night and he seemed to be a little less restless but from the fast paced breathing he seemed to still be in pain. Will update on how he does on the new meds. So far he seems to be napping quite peacefully this afternoon on them. 

With regards to the long vet stay, they wanted to discharge him after he could pee on his own which he wasn’t doing. They also wanted the wound to start healing a bit before discharging him or at least that is what they told us. He never ended up going to pee on his own so they decided it would be better to discharge him as he may be more encouraged to go at home, which he was. 

We will definitely be putting off chemo for a little while longer till he’s pain free and comfortable. Thank you all so much for the help and advice. Will try and be regular with the updates.

Virginia







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13 April 2023 - 2:11 am
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India?  Glad to know Tripawds reaches all the way over to india.

Yes, the gabapentin and the amantadine should start to kick in and make a difference.  They are both effective in fighting surgery pain. In fact the Gabapentin is often used here for humans who have amputation surgery. What is the amount of the dose and the frequency? And how much does your pup weigh?  

It is rough to see our dogs in pain, but the first week or so is all about tweaking the pain meds to find the right combination for each individual dog. It's often a bit of trial and error, but it sounds like you're on the right path now.

Thanks for the feedback and we look forward to more updates. Recovery doesn't last forever, right now it just feels like it!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS. Actually we're had a member from India a couple of years ago.  Of course, the name escapes me right now,

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!


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13 April 2023 - 7:04 am
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What he really needs is an NSAID to decrease inflammation so the Firocoxib plus the gabapentin should do the trick.  Many larger dogs need these meds for at least 2 weeks.  I waited 3 weeks before starting carboplatin for my Mastiff Tazzie mainly because of her size and she just needed some extra time to rest.

Pam

The Rainbow Bridge



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13 April 2023 - 10:29 am
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Oh wow you are in India? That's pretty cool. I do recall that the other member in India (Vijay, Gabar's dad) had a similarly cautious vet who kept their dog for a while. Better to be cautious I say!

I'm so glad you got the pain control for him. As you can see from @tazziedog's post (she is our Fairy Vet Mother here), that should really help him feel better now. 

Keep us posted OK? 

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13 April 2023 - 10:45 am
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Hi everyone,

Thank you all again for chiming in, he seems much better today. The firocoxib and gabapentin combination seem to be working well (night and day difference to before)

He’s currently on:

Gabapentin - 300mgx2 thrice a day for 7 days

Firotail (firocoxib) - 227mg for 7 days once a day

This is along with the Uro support and the ocoxin he’s already taking. 

He weighed about 145lbs pre amputation. 

He’s not restless or agitated anymore which is good and seems a bit more like himself (wagging his tail a lot more). He isn’t panting either  but he has been sleeping most of the day and seems quite sedated. Was wondering if any of the dosages of the meds like Gabapentin were a bit high? Is this a normal dose for a dog his size post amputation? As I mentioned he’s been sleeping most of the day and we only gave him one dose of Gabapentin (300mgx2) along with the firotail as we got back late morning from the vet. Will be giving him another dose of Gabapentin now before bed. We are not giving him any CBD at this time as we don’t want him any more sedated. 

Going to consult with the vet again tomorrow on the meds but we are glad he isn’t crying in pain anymore. Hoping he stays the same through the night. 

I’m surprised there aren’t many more members from this part of the world on here. There are lots of amputee cats and dogs around and I’m sure all of their families would have loved to have had this resource. Will spread the word! 

Varun 

Virginia







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13 April 2023 - 11:04 am
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So glad to hear Tyson is more comfortable.  Rest is exactly what he needs right now.  Wafting his tail is a great sign.  He seems more  engaged too now that he is trying to fight the pain.

Wait a day nor two and you can check with your Vet if you feel 600 mg three times a day is "sedating" him.  He's a big boy though.  Every dog reacts  differently  to pain meds.  It may be that you can cut back to twice a day.

  But give it a day or so as he may need a little adjustment time to the Gaba and isn't quite as lethargic in a day or so. Hard to distinguish  between catching up on pain free much needed rest and veing too "lethargic".   

Of course,  not a Bet and not giving Vet advice.

Thanks for the update.  Tyson's sparkle will come back, slowly but surely👍

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

The Rainbow Bridge



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13 April 2023 - 12:00 pm
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Hi Varun,

I'm sooo glad he's doing better!

Was wondering if any of the dosages of the meds like Gabapentin were a bit high? Is this a normal dose for a dog his size post amputation? 

Again, not a vet, but that's a relatively low dose for a dog his size (300 mg 3x daily is what my 80 lb dog would get). Your vet is being cautious, which is good. Gabapentin can make dogs sleepier at first, but they tend to acclimate over time and aren't as sleepy. You'll probably see a difference in a day or two but if not, talk to your vet about giving him a lower dose in the evening and a higher one at night. Then, gradually increasing the morning dose as his body gets used to it.

I'm also guessing that he is sleepier because he's just so tired from the anxiety and restlessness associated with being in pain. His body is now able to relax, and heal, which is what you want. 

Not sure the CBD will make him sleepy, better to be safe since when combined with Gabapentin, some CBD products and cause extra sleepiness. Do you have a link to the brand you are using? I'd love to check it out. I'm a Certified Veterinary Cannabis Guide, you can see our cannabis articles here.

And we would be so happy if you told your vet and others about us! If you'd like to help with translating our outreach brochures, let me know. We are about to design new ones and can send some to you for your vet clinic.


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13 April 2023 - 11:00 pm
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Some dogs are more sensitive to gabapentin so often I start low and gradually increase or give the higher dose at night so he can sleep but 600 mg three times daily is okay.  My large Mastiff Julian (220#) could never take more than 600 mg twice daily or he would get wobbly but my 60# Cattle Dog can take 300 mg twice daily no problem.  I do think older dogs need less but sleepy is better than painful!  You just don't want him to be unable to get up and walk.

Pam

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14 April 2023 - 2:02 am
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Hi all,

 

Tyson is doing much much better on the new meds. He was a bit wobbly yesterday but is getting around quite fine today and is a bit less lethargic as well.

 

He does cry briefly (10-20 seconds) from time to time and was a bit restless and whining early in the morning but for the most part he seems more like his normal self. I think we will stick to the vets recommended dose for gabapentin (600mgx3 daily) and see how he does for a few days. Like some of you said, he could just be catching up on some much needed and deserved rest.

 

Hi Jerry, the cbd product we currently have is https://vedicta.....oil-strong

 

We gave it to him once so far (12 drops the last night he was on tramadol) and it seemed to make him a bit less restless but he was still in a lot of pain. We were thinking of using it once he starts with his chemotherapy.

 

I’d be more than happy to hand some brochures over to the clinic. Everyone here or at least everyone visiting the clinic speaks good English. I embarrassingly am not very good with the local languages but can definitely help getting it translated here.  Let me know how I can help.

 

Varun

The Rainbow Bridge



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14 April 2023 - 11:04 am
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Oh thank goodness he's doing better! Yes see what's working and keep in touch with your vet. 

And thank you Dr. Pam for your pawesome insight as always 🙂

I'm checking out that CBD product, thank you for the link. It's so nice that you have something like that there for pets!

Oh as for brochures, thank you! Feel free to fill out the from in this post and request print ones, or you can download the PDF and print them, whatever's easiest. We greatly appreciate it.

It sounds relatively easy to get by in India without knowing the language? I've always wanted to visit.

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15 April 2023 - 11:33 am
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He seems better still today. Finally back to his usual affectionate self which is great to see. 

He’s a bit more used to his meds now and isn’t getting quite as tired.

 

Will download and print out some of the brochures.

 

India is a great place to visit with a huge diversity of culture state to state. It’s relatively easy to get around as most people in the big cities speak English. 

The Rainbow Bridge



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15 April 2023 - 12:18 pm
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YAY! This is a great update. Isn't it incredible what good pain control can do?

OK tell you what, when we come to India you can be our tour guide. It sounds lovely!

Thanks for sharing the update. Cheers to more progress 🙂

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