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Trying to make decision on chemo
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North Carolina
Member Since:
6 October 2011
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26 October 2011 - 2:38 am
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Our 6 year old grand dog, Hallie, had her rear leg amputated three weeks ago, due to osteosarcoma.  My daughter is trying to make the decision on proceeding with chemo. She had her stitches removed today, and has seemed really tired the last couple of nights.   There doesn't seem to be many posts about those that chose not to do the chemo.  We would certainly appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks for any help!

Portage Lake, Maine
Member Since:
8 December 2009
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26 October 2011 - 6:29 am
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Hello Halliesgmom,

Glad to hear Hallie is doing well...it seems to take a good month from my experience with my dog, for her to regain normal life again.  Although my dog's cancer was not OSA, she has STS(soft tissue sarcoma), I opted out of chemo.  She just celebrated her 2 Year Ampuversary last week! big-grin

My dog is treated by Dr. Charles Loops, a homeopathic vet, in NC.  I am in Maine.  He does phone consults, does not need to see your dog in person.  There are several dogs that I know of, that are being treated by him as well and some have OSA that I know of.  Eisen and Roxy are two that come to mind that are tripawds.  Eisen has OSA.  I also know of another Tripawd (not on this site) that has OSA at a VERY young age and she's still here at 15 years old or so and was treated by Dr. Loops.

Here is Dr. Loops website FMI:

http://www.char.....psdvm.com/

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

Albuquerque, NM
Member Since:
20 June 2011
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26 October 2011 - 8:58 am
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We made the decision to not do chemo with Jewels.  You might be interested in the topic discussion that generated as a result of my making the same kind of inquiry.  You could do a search for "amputation without chemotherapy" to find the discussion thread.  We decided partly because Jewels is already 11 years old.  For a large dog, that is already a little longer than the average lifespan.  Our main goal was to get rid of the extreme pain she was experiencing which we did thankfully with the amputation.  We decided to also do more natural remedies with diet and supplements to stave off the pending lung metastsis.  Her life may not be extended longer because we are not doing chemo, but at least I know that her remaining days will be pain-free and quality of life will be good.  Your daughter might want to make sure she is familiar with all her options and then she will be able to make the right decision for her, and for Hallie.  smiley

Jewels was a gorgeous Lab-Shep mix that found us at the pet rescue when she was just 3 months old. Born June 2000; Diagnosed OSA on June 1, 2011; L-front Amputation September 12, 2011; Crossed Rainbow Bridge December 30, 2011. My "baby dog" will always be in my heart.  Now she is running fast and free on all four legs after the rabbits and squirrels!  Jewels was loved by her crazy-busy mom, even-keeled dad, pesky twin human brothers and monkeydog sister Aspen.  Read about Jewels' Tripawd Journey here.

Golden Girls
4
26 October 2011 - 9:41 am
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What a beautiful pup Hallie is! It's only been 3 weeks, but she'll be her old self in no time. As for the question on chemo, whatever decision your daughter makes- we all will support it, as the decision will be made out of love. If she decides to go ahead with the chemo, she can also always stop it if Hallie doesn't do well with it.

We did chemo (vinblastin & cytoxin) for Skyler after she had her right rear leg amputated due to a mast cell tumor. Skyler was approaching the age of 10 at that time. She tolerated the chemo just fine, with no side effects. Unfortunately, the cancer was too aggrwessive - and she only survived 3 months. Although the outcome certainly wasn't what I had hoped for, I would do it all again.

Please keep us posted on how Hallie is doing. Sending you lots of golden hugs!

Cathy

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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26 October 2011 - 9:46 am
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Hi Hallie & Family,

Well you've come to the right place!

My folks and I opted out of chemo for many reasons. You can read about it in my ebook, and also find my story throughout the Tripawds news log. Chemo isn't for everyone, and it's OK if a pawrent doesn't want to do it. Remember there are no right or wrong answers when it comes to cancer. The only right one is the one that works best for a dog and their family.

While I didn't have chemotherapy, later when lung metastasis happened, I had metronomic protocol, an at-home regimen of low dose chemo. It worked well for me and kept the cancer under control for several more months. All in all I lived two years post diagnosis. Not bad considering the doctors only gave me about 6 months!

Here are some posts where you can find plenty of examples of others who didn't do the chemo route:

Regrets about Chemotherapy

Costs of Amputation and Chemotherapy: What Did You Pay?

Amputation without Chemotherapy

Anytime you need information, you'll most likely find it here in the Forums by doing a search. If you can't find it let us know and we'll help.

Good luck, we hope this information helps you all make a decision. Keep us posted.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

California
Member Since:
8 May 2011
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26 October 2011 - 10:43 am
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Hi Hallie's Mom, we just said goodbye to our beautiful Misty girl this week after a 6 month battle with OSA. This is a fantastic site for info and support but I'll have to tell you that one of the most honest and helpful pieces of advise I got was from Gibson's mom. Gibson was the worlds largest dog, a Great Dane . I had the privilege of meeting Gibson and his companion Sandy just a year before he was hit with this awful disease. So when we learned of our beautiful 2 yr old girls cancer I went directly to Sandy to ask her everything about treatments and what she might do differently. She told me very caringly but very frankly...you and the doctors can not beat this disease. I thought at the time she was very cruel and it was hurtful. But I always kept it in the back of my mind as we went along this journey with Misty this past 6 months. As our babies caretakers I think we are just programed to do what ever is needed for them which me and my family did for our girl. She had limb sparing surgery at the best Vet hospital in the country. Radiation, chemo and Metronomic therapy. We didn't hesitate to spend over $20,000.00 to save our girl if only to slow down this disease. It did not slow down this disease one bit. Every time we went in for her treatments the news was always bad and that this disease was more aggressive than any treatments our scientific world has come up with. I wouldn't change a day in the course of her treatment however. My point is that we have to do what is necessary but know the reality. I feel like we have been on a 6 month death sentence. The morning I got the phone call from my vet that they suspected Osteosarcoma ended the morning she came to our house to end our beauty's suffering. The 6 months in-between faded away. It doesn't matter how much time we get with them it is NEVER enough and the pain we experienced this week is not any lighter than if we had experienced it 6 months ago. One of the hardest things to deal with is that there is nobody to blame. Do what is right for you and your family and love Hallie with every bit of your being.

Misty's blog: http://misty.tripawds.com

Sister to Millie, 9 yr old choc. lab

Sister to Lola, 6 yr old choc. lab

Sister to Toby, 7 yr old rottie mix (officially my sons dog, but I'm still his mama!)

Sweetness to Fiona and Bill

San Diego, CA
Member Since:
29 October 2010
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26 October 2011 - 12:41 pm
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Hi Halliesgmom, it is hard to decide what to do. I've heard of dogs who did well w/ just amp (and a good diet/holistic supplements) and others who don't do so well on that route. The same with chemo - some seem to get more time, some don't. It's hard to know what to do, so you sort of have to look at the options (and your finances) and then go with your gut.

We got the Dr. Dressler book and I think he gives a really good overview of both the traditional options (chemo/MP) and the holistic route (supplements, etc.) His approach is a good blend of the two. That is what we are trying to do with Abby. I call it going "half-listic" since we are not wholly holistic. 🙂 You can read about what we've done in my sig, but we are just about at her one year ampuversary (this Sat!). No, we have not beaten the disease completely and we won't - but I really believe the things we've done have bought us more, good quality time.

If you are concerned about chemo mainly because Hallie seems tired, you could try one session and see how she does. Most dogs do well. They don't hit dogs with it as hard as they hit humans. (With dogs they try to extend life, not cure the disease - mainly because of quality of life issues.) So, that is something to realize going in. Anyway, Abby did quite well w/ chemo and didn't start to seem tired from it until the 5th/6th sessions.

Let us know if you have any more specific questions. There's no wrong decision. You guys know Hallie best and know what she can handle.

All the best,

Jackie, Abby's mom

Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!

Caledonia MI
Member Since:
13 October 2011
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26 October 2011 - 8:04 pm
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All of these decisions are horrible to make.  Our dog was diagnosed in July with Osteosarcoma...for months my husband and i agreed that we would not treat him because it's a hopeless disease.  But when it started to get time to "let him go" I totally changed my mind.  After laying awake at night and driving around in my car crying everyday for months this is how I finally made my decision:  My thinking was "If I have to "put my dog down" I want to feel like I did everything I could." I didn't want to let him go and have to wonder "what if I would have tried this"...A lot of people I know think we are crazy going through all this but try to put aside everyone's opinion's and do what you are comfortable with!  There are no right answers...It's whatever you think is right and what you can handle!

Hope that helps!

Levi was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma 7-7-11
Ampuversary 10-14-11
Lung Mets Discovered 1-4-12. Chemo seemed to not be working so we switched to Artemisinin and other supplements. In May, Levi developed a sinus infection and started having seizures. The cancer had moved to his brain. We let him go 6-26-12.

North Carolina
Member Since:
6 October 2011
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26 October 2011 - 8:57 pm
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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and stories.  I'm sorry for those of you that have lost your dear pups, and commend you on how you cared for each of them.  My daughter really feels that she needs to do everything possible to help her Hallie, and the oncologist and vet are really encouraging her to do the chemo.  I felt that she really should hear more from those that didn't choose the chemo, as this will be a extreme financial ordeal for her, and we want Hallie to have as normal a life as possible.  It's hard to know how much we do for ourselves, sometimes overlooking what might be best for her.  As one of you said, no one knows what the outcome of any path we take may be, but we have to feel that we took the right course for her.  Learning others stories should surely help her in deciding what will be the best for Hal.

We will definitely follow up on the suggested reading and appreciate so much the directions for where to find the information.

Hallie is such a sweet, precious pup to us.  She just loves being with her mom, and grandmom isn't bad either!

 

Thanks so much for all of your help.  We will keep you posted on our journey.

 

Carol,  Hallie's grandmom  🙂

San Diego, CA
Member Since:
29 October 2010
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26 October 2011 - 9:21 pm
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I hope the vet/onc won't push her into something she doesn't feel good about/can't really afford. Chemo is expensive and even though we all want to do whatever we can, sometimes finances have to play a role in the decision.

If you do opt out of chemo I think the most important things are (a) a good grain-free diet, (b) K9 Immunity and (c) artemisinin . Lots of the dogs here I believe have done/are doing K9 Immunity . Abby gets K9 Immunity Plus, which is a flavored chew, so she loves it and it's not another pill I have to try to get down her. For a good overview of artemisinin , check out this page: http://www.bone.....ument/50  If you have any questions about artemisinin you can always PM me.

Best of luck to you and your daughter and to Hallie! Whatever decision you make, have no regrets - you are doing all this out of love for your sweet furry family member!

Jackie, Abby's mom

Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!

Chicago, IL
Member Since:
5 March 2011
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26 October 2011 - 9:24 pm
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Tell your daughter not to be afraid to tell the onologist if money is an issue!  Sometimes I think they want results, a feather in their cap, i.e., longest possible survival time without as much regard for quality of life or cost.  Our onc was very good about taking our concerns about both into account and gave us the "best bang for the buck" protocol.  And the holistic route isn't exactly cheap either.  Of course, there's always the amp + nothing route, too.  Only Hallie's oncologist can give a prognosis on that.

It might be worth asking if there is a pill form of the chemo drug instead of an IV - much cheaper.  Plus we had our local vet do the blood work and send it to them - also cheaper for us.  But you cannot skimp on the frequency of either one.

Everyone here has struggled with "is this for me or for my dog?"  Don't be afraid about quality of life - many pups have minimal side effects plus, as mentioned before - if the side effects (or expense) get to be too much, just stop.  A friend told me her vet said "Who's to say what's enough chemo?"  They don't really know for sure.  This evil disease does what it wants.

I would also tell your daughter, whatever her decision, never look back.  The decision is, by defnition, right.

http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.

Las Vegas, Nevada
Member Since:
14 August 2009
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26 October 2011 - 9:49 pm
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Welcome Hallie's grandmom!

 

I never was put in position to do chemo so I don't have any experience.  But for what's it worth, which isn't much, I would never do chemo for OSA...maybe a soft tissue cancer- but I'm not even sure on that one either.  I never want to say never but I'm just not convinced that it helps with OSA.  OSA seems to do its own thing.

And not that my opinion matters because it doesn't...but I've been around here long enough to see dogs do great without doing chemo also.     

Wishing you all the best!

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

Portage Lake, Maine
Member Since:
8 December 2009
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27 October 2011 - 2:59 am
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It's hard not to feel pressured into something...I almost did chemo with Maggie but SHE decided she would have none of it.  She was so sick after amputation that the Vet suggested, for two reasons, to opt out of chemo.  #1 because we didn't know exactly what type of soft tissue sarcoma Maggie had so the type of chemo would be  a "shot in the dark" and #2 because she was so sick after surgery, the Vet feared she wouldn't do well with chemo.

In my heart, I didn't really want to do chemo anyway as I treat holistically as much as possible.  It just didn't feel right to me but I WAS going to do it...to give Maggie the best shot at a longer life.

But instead, as I stated earlier, I opted for Dr. Charles Loops for cancer treatment homeopathically.  Moneywise it's VERY cost effective.  The initial consult, if I recall, is $150..then the remedies cost me $44(with shipping) every couple of months or so. 

She is also on K9Immunity Plus and eats Honest Kitchen premixes with Primal ground meats added.

I always say, go with what your heart is telling you to do regarding treatments. It's just so hard to sort everything out!!  But be at peace with whatever way you choose.  Good luck to your daughter and to Hallie!

 

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

Mount Pleasant, Ia
Member Since:
27 October 2010
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27 October 2011 - 9:47 am
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Carol. Cooper had no chemo for his osteosarcoma. He was almost 10 when he lost his leg a year ago yesterday. We were told that he would likely only live 1 -3 months without chemo. We decided that 1-3 months pain free was better than losing him immediately or lettin ghim suffer till he died. Cooper had 9 wonderful months with us - the cancer eventually spread to his lungs and we lost him on August 5th this year, but he had a really happy and painfree life for 9 months, I wonder fom time to time what might have happened with chemo, but you know , all we can do is our best and live satisfied with the knowledge that we did our best. Good luck and know that whatever you are able to do will be enough -

 

Coopsdad

Coopsdad/ Kenneth Blackburn

http://cooper.t.....ipawds.com

the monkeydogs only THINK they have invaded the tripawd state

Plainfield, Illinois
Member Since:
14 May 2011
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27 October 2011 - 12:59 pm
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Chili Dawg did not have chemo.  One of the reasons was because financially we could not afford it.  We changed Chili Dawg's diet and put him on K9 Immunity and some supplements as well.  We were told by doing the amputation, we would most likely get 4-6 months with Chili without doing chemo.  Unfortunately, the OSA came back in his hip after 3.5 months, and he crossed the bridge at the end of August.  Part of me wonders at times what might have happened if we could have afforded chemo, but we got 3.5 PAIN FREE months with him.  Our 2 little kids got to make memories with our special boy, and that to me is priceless.  Was it enough time?  No, but there would have never been enough time.  That's why cancer sucks, it takes time away from you.  But instead of focusing on how we couldn't afford chemo, we focused on enjoying each and every day with Chili Dawg- taking pictures, playing outside, being together.  Time goes by all too quickly.  You have to enjoy the time you have now.  Whatever decision your daughter makes, will be the right decision.

Diagnosed with OSA: 5/2/2011 Ampuversary: 5/11/2011 OSA returned in hip: 8/26/2011
Chili Dawg crossed the Rainbow Bridge on 8/30/2011 & is now pain free. He was my heart dog, and I miss him every day.

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