Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Good evening,
Runcus' elbow is healing (finally) and the bandage is off, much to her delight! This means chemo will likely begin next week. The thing I so hated putting off has become the thing I'm dreading. I understand from what I've read (here and elsewhere) that critters tolerate it much better than humans. I have witnessed some pretty terrible human chemo experiences, with grandmother, mother, sister-in-law, best friend for over 50 years...so I sure hope that's right.
Anyway, I'd sure like to hear about other folks' experiences. To catch anyone up who hasn't followed her story: Runcus had front leg amputation for osteosarcoma. At the time of her surgery there were no indications of metastasis. Chest xray, blood work and lymph nodes all clear. Because it's osteo the chances of micro-metastasis is quite high, so the standard course of action is to follow the amp with chemo, 2 weeks post op. She couldn't do that due to some other things that came up, GI bleed, bursitis or something in her other elbow, eventually followed by debriding and a few more stitches to heal from. There's more but that's the jist of it.
I think it's carboplantin (?) They'll be administering, one dose every 3 weeks for 4 treatments. Does anyone have experience with this? Do symptoms (if they happen) increase as each dose is given? Is it common to need to adjust dosage? She's already terrified of the vet clinic. I do know that even with covid restrictions I'm allowed to hang out with her while they do the treatment. Then I can just take her home with me. I work from home now and am so glad she can be by my side all day!
Now we are looking at starting chemo 5 weeks post op. IF everything looks ok with her elbow. (That's when the stitches come out.) I know 3 weeks isn't all that long, and I'm trying to stay positive. She is so happy, strong, patient and loyal! (If all it took to get her through this was heart, she'd already be home free!)
Has anyone here had to delay the start of treatment? If so did it seem to make a difference? As hard as it is to say, I really don't want to do this if it isn't going to help her in a pretty substantial way.
Any words of wisdom, or experiences to share?
That's pawesome that Runcus is mending! Her elbow was a tricky situation. What a relief to be moving forward with healing.
The chemo decision is a big one, and there are no right or wrong choices. What works for one may not work for another. There are no guarantees either way. Yes, most dogs don't have serious side effects, it is a very different experience for them than it is for humans. With humans, it's about tolerating the highest maximum dose so the cancer cells can be killed. Animals don't do well with that approach, they're just too small to tolerate the same level of chemo doses. In their case, chemo treatment becomes a matter of managing the cancer so it behaves, while giving the dog a good quality of life. Dosages are adjusted depending on the dog's tolerance. Mild nausea is the most common side-effect.
Yes, carboplatin is the standard of care, 4-6 doses are given to keep the cancer away. In some dogs it will, in others it won't. It's a crapshoot really. Statistically it gives the dog a better chance at beating the odds. But we've seen things go either way. You just can't really tell who will beat the odds because of cancer, and who will not, despite receiving chemotherapy.
Here's a blog post we wrote a while back about trying to decide on chemo:
The Chemotherapy Decision: Joys and Regrets
As for the timing of when Runcus would get it. What we were told by an oncologist was that any treatment is better than none. So if chemo is the way you want to go then it's worth a try. But if you feel in your heart that Runcus would lose quality of life from being at the vet for treatments, then that's something to consider to. The good thing about chemo is you can always stop if you decide she's not having a good time.
Quick question: who will be doing the chemo? Will you take her to a boarded oncologist for the treatment?
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
So glad Runcus fi alky has that elbow healed. What an ordeal!
Jerry covered everything on chemo so just DITTO.
And yes. For a variety of reasons chemo is sometimes delayed several weeks after recovery, so no worries.
My Happy Hannah had four rounds of Carboplatin and had zero side effects. If I recall, it was around week three or four that she started bec her amp recovery took a little longer than some. Like you, I was able to actually have an "appointment " so she was in and out very quickly. I wasn't in the room with her, but just waited out in the waiting room. I made sure each trip home jncluded a drive thru Starbucks Puppacino. She thought chemo trips were just great!!
As Jerry mentioned, some dogs do have nausea and may be a little lethargic or off for for a day or so. Most Vets are proactive and will send you home with Ceren for nausea. The good thing about chemo is that, if side effects are really bad (-rare, but does happen), you can quit anytime and the dog bounces back fairly quickly.
As Jerry said, it's a crap shoot and there is no right or wrong way.
Keep is posted and give her a big smooch for us😘
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Thanks for all the insights, and for the link to the Blog. I did read it and it helps. I'd pretty much made up my mind, just due to the odds it has gone elsewhere undetected. This really helps cement it though, and the reassurance we can stop if it sucks too much is something I knew in my head, but hadn't really been considering. I really don't want her uncomfortable, that's all. Since I can be with her I don't think it will be as hard on her to be there for the treatments. Maybe I can feed her treats while she's being infused. I'll ask. If she gets a "Biljack" every 5 or 10 minutes she may end up not minding at all!
And no, Rene, it's not a board certified oncologist, just my "regular" vet. There is a vet on staff there who's worked in oncology, and they consult regularly about Runcus. I don't have lots of options in this little burg. We are close to CSU, but the cost is so much more there, plus the travel in winter, spending half a day rather than an hour to get the treatment....This just makes sense for us.
Of course they'll be checking her white count a couple weeks after treatment ( which is about a week before the next one). I guess that's the typical "low" spot for while blood cells. I feel really good about the care she'll be getting during all of this.
One last thing I haven't seen addressed anyplace is whether the likelihood of symptoms increases as the doses progress. I know that's quite common in people, but as has been pointed out, the goal here is different.
Thanks as always for reading and for the thoughtful responses
Aww you are so welcome. I hope you guys are staying warm and cozy up there. That winter storm looks insane!
I had figured that you were working with your vet on the chemotherapy, since last I heard there weren't too many vet oncologists in Wyoming or Montana. That's perfectly fine to work with your regular vet, they sound like they're sharp. I once asked a top vet oncologist if it was OK for GP vets to give chemotherapy. Here's a post that shares our discussion.
Yes I'm betting that you can totally treat her during the chemo session!
One last thing I haven’t seen addressed anyplace is whether the likelihood of symptoms increases as the doses progress. I know that’s quite common in people, but as has been pointed out, the goal here is different.
This isn't something I've heard anyone mention, nor do I know of any studies that reflect this kind of situation in pets undergoing chemotherapy. But it's a great question to ask an oncologist next time we interview one!
Keep us posted on how the week is going. Stay warm and safe!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Well here we are 3 days after Runcus' 1st chemo. Yes, I could treat her. I just sat with her, her head in my lap part of the time, just feeding her Bil-jacs. Sweet hubby went and got her a new carton that morning. If I went too long between she'd bump my hand as a reminder. She still hated it any time the vet or a tech looked in on us, but she was fairly relaxed and enjoying her treats when we were alone. Probably the best vet trip she ever had, frankly!
She has tolerated it ok so far. Not much appetite on Friday morning, so we gave her the Cerenia. A little while later she came back and finished her breakfast. We gave it to her again 1st thing this morning and she ate like a champ.
We were out getting firewood today, (doing our best to stay toasty as advised) and she did really well. Sometimes just watching Calliope run after some scent she'd picked up on and sometimes tearing around with her. She got down in the snow and figured out how to make her chewstick stay in the snowbank to chew on. She made loads of snow angels... Did my heart good I tell ya, and hers too!
I gave her some pain meds when we got home because she was really starting to slow down by the time we got ready to leave. She ate all her dinner tonight and is resting quite comfortably I believe.
I did find out, from the experiences at my vet's office, that while each treatment may have a different reaction, it doesn't correlate well with the number of doses received. The 1st visit may be rough and the 3rd one a breeze, or any combination really, according to what they've seen. Their advise was to just take each one on its own.
I'd love to hear what others have experienced.
Thanks as always for giving me a place to share our experiences, it's really quite a ride
What a great update, she's a rock star! And playing in the snow too? Just beautiful. Did you get any photos? We'd love to see them!
Yeah I'd say what your vet described is spot on and exactly what we see here too.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
It's been a while since In wrote an update. I have to say it's been rough at best. Runcus did not do well with chemo. Everything started out as expected. She had some loss of appetite around day 2 or 3 that Cerenia took care of. But when we did the blood draw at 2 weeks post chemo her platelets had crashed. We postponed the next round for a week and discussed lowering the dosage. A few days later diarrhea set in with a vengeance. We ceased all pain meds, to ease her belly discomfort, began Metranidazol and a probiotic. Her appetite disappeared. We added Cerenia back in, but it didn't seem to have the same effect. After a couple 3 days her diarrhea subsided and her appetite returned, but I noticed a distinct effort not to put any weight on her right rear leg (same side as her amputation). Back to the vet today and her blood work is all normal, praise God and hallelujah! However, it appears she has a partial ACL tear in that right knee. Can I just say Where's The Fudge?!?! This poor dog has been through so much already...
I didn't make the decision to amputate lightly. I did a bunch of research. Her sister had an amputation followed by chemo, and lived another year before having any more problems arose. I spoke at length withbhe folks that loved her and they had all good things to say about the surgery and subsequent chemo. I looked at this forum and website... I made what I thought was an informed decision. And now I'm not sure it was the right one for Runcus.
I love her so much! I'm afraid my love for her caused me to make a selfish decision. Maybe I should have just let the cancer take her. Treated her pain the best I could for as long as I could and just Let. Her. Go.
We've upped her pain meds, she's taking 75 mg Caprophen and 300 mg Gabapentin twice a day plus 200 mg Amantadine once a day. We are hopeful this will alleviate her immediate discomfort and allow her to at least play in the back yard, climb a couple steps in and out of the house, get into bed with us and get in and out of our car for rides, trips to the prairie and dog park once in a while until this horrid disease takes her.
I'm so sorry, but I'm in such a dark place.... I never, ever intended to cause her more suffering.
You have nothing to be sorry about, it’s no wonder you feel so down. Vent all you want.
You made educated decisions for her out of love not selfishness. Nobody can predict how a dog will do with chemo, it’s a toss up. It sucks that it didn’t work but that doesn’t mean she can’t go on to have a good quality of life and many more good times ahead.
As for her suspected partial cruciate tear, that’s not uncommon at all and it even happened to our Jerry. With R&R she should recover and do fine. Her pain meds sound appropriate and based on our experience with Wyatt’s chronic pain, it’s a relatively low dose for acute pain. So if she still shows pain signals there’s room to increase.
You are doing everything you can for her and she undoubtedly knows she is loved. Stay strong, things will get better!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Thanks for the kind words. It's so comforting knowing there are folks out there who've battled this same struggle and come out the other side, if not unscathed at least undaunted.
I guess I didn't quite grasp from our vet that a partial tear could actually heal. I just figured she'd have the pain from that on-going for the rest of her life. You hear all the time about people who can't afford an ACL repair, so their dog just has to live with it. It does give me hope for sure that this could actually heal. Her little elbow is looking great, so I know she's still healing well.
As for the treatments, I suppose I set too high a bar, placed my rose-colored glasses firmly upon my snout and looked forward to untroubled waters ahead. Once the cancerous leg was gone, and few rounds of chemo, we were out of the woods! I truly didn't understand that's when this journey was just beginning. Makes me sound rather silly to write it out like that.
Anyway, we are squarely facing the situation as I now understand it. She is still delighted to be wherever she is, (except the vet that is) just living life in the moment, hopping and wagging that tail. Her big ol' grin is back on her face after a brief vacation when she couldn't eat and must have felt awful. I have to do what my Grammy used to tell me: Keep your chin up! Use chinstrap if necessary.
Thanks for being my chinstrap!
You are NOT silly at all. You had expectations based on your past experience with chemotherapy. Anyone would, I know I would have felt the same way and been just as surprised. You are doing great by stepping back and analyzing your gut reactions to the rough road. See, you're already making progress!
Yes, dogs can heal from a partial tear, as long as the activity level is scaled way back. It's known as "conservative management." Here's an article for you about managing soft tissue injuries:
https://tripawd.....s-in-pets/
If in your research you find other articles, feel free to share them there in that topic.
We are happy to be your chinstrap anytime, but it sure looks like Runcus is doing a perfectly fine job herself!
Keep up the pawsitivity!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
You have, indeed, done what is in Runcus's best interest with every single decision!!! You listened to the professionals , you did your research and you did what all of us woild have done! Wanting to share as much quality time with your beloved Runcus is not selfish!. It is a testament to the depth of love you have for Runcus and your commitment to doing whatever it takes to give Runcus every opportunity to live life to the fullest!
While on some subconscious level we may sense that there is a risk with ANY surgery, or a chance chemo may have side effects, etc. Our love guides us and helps us overcome any little nagging doubts we may have so we can move forward with a plan that provides hope! And hope for a good outcome is a NORMAL expectation that gives us the courage to move forward.
So could you clarify how many chemo treatments Runcus has had? And each time side-effects that couldn't be brought back under control with the normal protocols? And you've decided not to proceed anymore, right?? Everyone here will tell you there are NO guarantees with chemo! Many dogs have lived full quality extended time for years without chemo....some not. Some have seemingly gotten extended time with chemo....some not. It truly is a crap shoot!
And yes, tears CAN be managed! For a variety of reasons surgery is not always an option and the conservative approach is an alternative....or simply just first choice of the path so e take. Part of the process
Do you have a Rehabilitation Specialist in your area? They are absolutely a great resource for ways to manage a partial tear. The Tripawds Fund will pay for the first consult. Some Rehabs may suggest a stabilizing brace or sleeve....some don't. I didnt click onto the link Jerry gave your, but I'm sure it's chock full of good information.
Scar tissue is a friend to a partial tear. ZScar tissue forms will fairly quickly and serves as a stabilizing factor.
Vent and rage, but then take some deep breaths, look at how hapoh azRuncus is, and KNOW Runcus has a bright future ahead of her!😎 I know this is the same, but my fro t legger tripawd had a full tear in one of the remaining rear legs...did a surgery....then a full tear in the other rear leg....then the first surgery failed. Basically there are no other options for the failed one. In time, scar tissue has formed and helps to stabilize it. AMND he is as happy as can be! Obv your situation is different with the remaining leg being the one with the tear, but certainly doable,
YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!! We are here to cheer for Runcus and will continue to send healing energy ♥️
(((((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
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