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Recent Post-Op Shivering and Whining; Only at Night
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Member Since:
24 August 2015
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1 September 2015 - 7:13 am
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Our pup Charlie had his right-front leg removed for osteosarcoma. His surgery was Aug 28th. He has been doing exceptionally well, eating his normal food, drinking water, urinating(as first day) and defecating (as of the 31st). His current medications are as follows:

  • Cefpodoxime once a day
  • Rimadyl twice a day
  • Acepromazine as needed
  • The Fentanyl Patch until tomorrow, then he starts on Tramodol

The only difficulty we have experienced started yesterday morning. When we woke up Charlie was laid out on his cot, lightly shivering and whimpering. We thought maybe he was stiff or cold, so we gave him some pets and reassurance and he got right up and was good for the rest of the day. Then last-night at around 3 AM we noticed the same thing. He was whimpering lightly, shivering a bit, and even flicking his tail while doing it. Whenever I went over to check on him he seemed to stop and be his normal self. 

My Wife and I decided to sleep on the ground next to him, he enthusiastically cuddled us, laying his head on my chest for a while and licking his momma.  We plan on asking our surgeon about this, but we thought it might be worth asking here if anyone has seen anything like this. I was thinking phantom limb pain, but has anyone heard of a dog only exhibiting those symptoms at night? Perhaps he's in pain but only shows it when he thinks we aren't paying attention? Charlie has had a history of pretty severe separation anxiety, could that be a factor?

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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1 September 2015 - 8:34 am
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Awww....the visual of Charlie cuddling with you two makes me smile.

Phantom pain usually shows up woth the dog havi g episodes of yelping loudly and trying to run away from the pain.

Charlie sounds like he's experiencing pain from the surgery itself. Shivering, whimpering, ears pinned back, maybe some panting, all signs of pain. The fentanyl patch is starting to wear off, the hospital meds are probably out of his system now too. Talk to your vet, but you may want to fo on and start the Tramadol now before the pain has a xhance to get a head start. So no, in my unprofessional opinion, I don't think it's separation anxiety at all. This is such a major surgery and, even though he is adapting to three legs beautifully, the surgery itself is pretty painful. Humans would be in the hospital for days and on a morphine drip!

My Happy Hannah was on Tramadol, Gabapentin, Rimadyl and an antibiotic. And yes, she seemed to be more uncomfortable at night and whined a lot and was very restless. I also slept beside her to help comfort her. Needless to say, I treasured every second I had with her, even if it meant sleeping on the floor!

Glad to hear he's eating normally. My Happy Hannah never missed a meal, but she wouldn't drink water for almost two weeks without me putting a scoop of ice cram in it! Just continue to have him rest and just take short potty breaks for now.

Give that boy a big smooch for us!

Lots of love to all!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!

PS...The ACE, if it's the "sedative" I'm thinking of, is really, really powerful and I wouldn't give it to him unless it was a really bad, really bad, situation. Just my non professional opinion

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Michigan
Member Since:
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1 September 2015 - 8:39 am
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How often are you giving the medications?  Make sure that you are timing them out so that you are giving them equally around the clock so they stay in his system.  I would also ask about Gabapentin, that one seems to work the best for them - it's for nerve pain.  Murphy never had the fentanyl patch, but he did come home on Gabapentin, tramadol & rimadyl. 

Donna

Donna, Glenn & Murphy 

Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old. He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17  
Read about Murphy's Life on Three Legs

Donna.png

Los Angeles, CA
Member Since:
13 June 2013
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1 September 2015 - 9:17 am
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I think it sounds like he might be in some pain - not phantom pain but real pain. I know we were sent home with the patch AND tramadol but every dog is indeed different. But panting/pacing/shaking ... all seem to be pain symptoms to me. Poor guy. 

Also, Shelby had a bit of anxiety that did seem to worsen each night ... we got 'doggy xanax' for that. But I would call your vet and check in ... just to be safe!

Keep us posted and hope he's feeling better soon!

hugs!!!

alison with spirit shelby in her heart 

Shelby Lynne; Jack Russell/Shiba Inu mix. Proud member of the April Angels of 2014.

October 15, 2000 to April 8, 2014

Our story: Broke rear leg in June 2013 - non-conclusive results for cancer so leg was plated and pinned. Enlarged spleen in September 2013 and had it removed and was diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma and started chemotherapy. Became a Tripawd January 8th, 2014 and definitive Hemangiosarcoma diagnosis. Three major surgeries in 7 months and Shelby took them all like a champ only to lose her battle to cancer in her brain. We had 8 amazing extra months together and no regrets. #shelbystrong #loveofmylife

Member Since:
24 August 2015
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1 September 2015 - 9:35 am
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Thanks Sally,

Sounds like it's not phantom limb pain. I hope his surgery pain isn't so bad. He's such a strong pup, I worry he's not showing us all that he is going through. As you saw from his vid he is getting around well, but we limit his walks to about 2 minutes 3 times a day for potty purposes. (As much as he would like to walk around for hours). I'll ask the doctor about Gabapentin, I know they warned against starting Tramodol while the patch is on, as it could cause severe sedation. The patch will be coming off tomorrow morning, then we will be starting on the Tromodol

On the subject of sedation, they gave Charlie the ACE for his ride home. We've not really needed to use it as he has been sleeping and resting naturally.

 

Donna,

Charlie is receiving his Cefpodoxime once a day (morning) and his Rimadyl twice a day (Morning and Night). Starting tomorrow, he will be getting Tromodol every 8-17 hours as needed. Perhaps I should schedule it to make sure he gets a fresh dose of Tromodol before bed.

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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1 September 2015 - 9:46 am
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Just to add something to discuss with your vet...as though you don't already have enough on your plate!! My doseage of Tramadol for Happy Hannah was every 8 hrs. Now, that said, I coukd do it every 6 hrs. if needed. And there were times when I would. Discuss with your vet, but I wouldn't want to go more than 8 hrs. without pain meds in his system. Just another "two cents worth".

You've got a really good handle on things! GREAT JOB!!!

YAAAAAAAAAY FOR CHARLIE...AND MOM AND DAD TOO!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

On The Road


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1 September 2015 - 9:51 am
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Let us know what your vet says, it sounds like just a matter of the pain meds being adjusted and possibly adding the gaba into the mix for a bit. I'm glad you're not giving him the Ace, not a big fan of it for these reasons.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Green Bay, WI


Member Since:
18 May 2014
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1 September 2015 - 10:00 am
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Hi, it sounds to me like the others could be right and it's pain kicking in. My Dobe nitro couldn't tolerate the fentanyl patch - he really weird on it so we took it off early. He was on tramadol  and gabapentin right from the start - even before the surg. Gabapentin helps with nerve pain. I had to make a chart to keep all the meds and times straight and had an alarm on my phone too....you don't want to get behind on pain meds,especially the first weeks home. Our bed is still on the floor for him and it's been over 14 mos! 🙂  I think we were like Sally, sometimes every 6 hrs but for sure it was every 8. This is my two cents worth lol

paula and nitro

Nitro 11 1/2  yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms.  Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"

http://nitro.tripawds.com

"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior

Member Since:
24 August 2015
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1 September 2015 - 10:17 am
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Thank you for bringing that info on ACE to our attention. We are just going to go ahead and not use that at all anymore. Still waiting to hear back from the vet.

Before his surgery, Charlie was on Gabapentin as well as Rimadyl and Tramodol. We still have a large bottle of Gabapentin but we were told not to use it anymore. Perhaps because of the patch? I'm happy to take Charlie back to his previous pill routine (With the addition of the antibiotic and joint supplements) but that's not something I'd do without getting ok from the vet. I'll be sure to start Charlie tomorrow on his Tromodol at every 8 hours.

Paula,

I use an app called gentle alarm to keep track of Charlies pill times. It plays "I Get Around" by the Beach Boys and displays what pills it's time for. Charlie has begun to recognize the fun tunes of the Beach Boys as "Treat Time".

You've been sleeping on the floor for 14 months? I admit when we used to keep our mattress on the ground we loved having the pup cuddle us all night!

Livermore, CA




Member Since:
18 October 2009
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1 September 2015 - 10:47 am
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It sounds like surgery pain to me.  Did Charlie exhibit any of this behavior when he was on the meds before the surgery?  It could be the fentanyl patch, some do get wonky on that.  My pug Maggie did not do well with tramadol- you have the advantage of having seen Charlie on these meds (except fentanyl) before surgery.

In all three big surgeries for my pugs (1 amp, two knee repairs including bone cutting)  they were taking tramadol in addition to the fentanly patch when they came home from the hospital.  There could be some sedation, but that is where you need to work with your vet to find the best balance.  Some sedation in the early days is not necessarily a bad thing.  You don't want comatose, but you want to limit the pain as well.

It's good to hear how well Charlie is doing overall!

 

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Member Since:
24 August 2015
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1 September 2015 - 11:18 am
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Ok so heard back from our Surgeon and he said it's very likely the patch, he had me remove it and told me to start his Tramodol.

Karen, good point about thinking of how Charlie reacted on the meds before surgery. He was fine, no whimpering, no shivering. We'll see what tonight brings without the patch. The Surgeon said depending on how things go without the patch we'll think about adding Gabapentin into the mix.

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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1 September 2015 - 12:35 pm
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Love the app you jave for pill time. The fact that Charlie recognizes it as "treat time"...precious!!

Glad you got the go ahead ro start with Tramadol a d have made the distinction that his symptoms are probably pain related. You are a great advocate for your boy!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Member Since:
24 August 2015
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2 September 2015 - 7:24 am
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Last night was rough,

Before bed time, Charlie out of no where started yelping at the top of his lungs. We didn't know what else to do so we just held him until he stopped. Then he was up most of the night panting heavily and whimpering. Standing a lot since I bet it hurts to lay down.  I gave him Gabapentin at around 3 AM last night out of desperation, and that seemed to help him quite a bit. I think we are going to keep him on Gabapentin for the time being, so I'll consult with the vet.

Everyone has said there would be good days and bad days, but I really hope that's as bad as it gets. He's fresh off of his patch so I suspect he is feeling more than ever before. Poor guy. Is there anything else we can do for him? I Feel kind of powerless right now. I wish I could take his pain for him.

Maryland
Member Since:
28 March 2015
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2 September 2015 - 8:08 am
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This must have been distressing. Poor boy. I sure hope he's feeling better today!

You'll want to check w/ your vet of course, but my understanding is that Gabapentin needs to 'build up' to an effective range so it isn't something you want to give off and on. And once you're on it, you don't want to go cold turkey but rather slowly ramp down.

Active 10+ Pyr mix suddenly came up lame with ACL tear in left rear leg. Scheduled for a TPLO but final pre-op x-rays indicated a small suspicious area, possibly OSA, which could have caused the ACL tear. Surgeon opened the knee for TPLO but found soft bone. Biopsy came back positive for OSA. Became a Tripawd 9/18/14. Carbo6 with Cerenia and Fluids. Pain free and living in the moment. Crossed the Bridge on 7/12/15 after probable spread of cancer to her cervical spine. A whole lifetime of memories squeezed into 10 months. Here's her story: Eloise

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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2 September 2015 - 9:04 am
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Drats you guys, I'm sorry! We always hope that rough patch won't happen, it's very distressing.

You're on the right track with the Gaba. Whenever you need to adjust or withdraw it later on, talk to your vet, you want to keep it on schedule and you do not want to suddenly stop giving it or it can cause problems.

Have you seen our Best Phantom Limb Pain tips? There's some ideas that should help.

Best Pain Relief Tips for Tripawd Dogs and Cats

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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