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Libby's out of surgery but I have a concern.........
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Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 12:12 pm
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I just spoke with my vets office.  The surgery went well, then the gal at the desk tells me they want to keep her overnight.  Earlier in the week my vet said she would go home the same day if all goes well.  I asked if this means it didn't go well.  She assured me the surgery went well but Libby was "painful" when she woke up.  I asked what that meant and she said she was howling (which she's never done before, but I realize she's also never been through this before).  The surgeon gave her an injection which quieted her down and she is now sleeping.  They want to keep her to make sure she's getting enough fluids.  I imagine it's also to see about managing her pain.

 

I'm concerned about them keeping her overnight.  The office closes at 6pm and there's no overnight staff.  How can she be left alone for 13 hours?  The surgeon is suppose to call me in about an hour.  Ugh.  I didn't want to start out this way.  Is this unusual?

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14



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31 January 2013 - 12:24 pm
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Amy,

see if there is an emergency animal clinic that you could possibly take her too overnight.  I had the option of doing that or bringing Sassy home.  I didn't want the extra charge from the emergency clinic because the one here is horribly expensive.   Sassy, did not have the pain problems Libby seems to be having.  I wouldn't leave her there by herself though. 

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 12:28 pm
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My stomach is just turning now.  Thanks for the suggestion.  We do have a 24 hr clinic.  I don't know how much worse that would be...leaving her again. Ugh.  I thought regrets weren't suppose to start til we brought her home.

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14

New Haven, CT
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31 January 2013 - 12:31 pm
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Hey!  First off: yey!  She made it through without obvious, major complications.  Those are possible and your lady made it well.  Awesome!  Way to go Libby!!!  Breathe.

I worked in a vet office, and when pets (and probably humans, too) come out of anesthesia, they make a lot of noise.  It's their nerves coming back on board paired with a really fuzzy brain.  The noises they make can be awful.  That said, not all pets do this and sometimes pets do this b/c they are also in pain.  She may be.  Makes sense, right?  Many of our dogs here spent at least 1 night in the hospital, that way they can be better monitored and drugs maintained better.  These may be IV drugs, that wouldn't necessarily go home with you.  So if the vet feels she'll be more comfy spending the night there, hooked up, I suggest you keep her there.  If you were to take her home, she'd still be coming off her super-meds and may talk more than you'd expect.  As a mom and dad, this may concern you a lot.  Maybe in this case, it's best to leave her out of your sight/hearing and enjoy a night without worrying about what noises she's making.  Even when we got Jackson the next day, it was clear he was riding HIGH from his super-meds.  When those wore off, he crashed.  Big time.

I totally understand your concern about leaving her w/o supervision, though!  YIKES!  Jackson had his done in a very small practice where the vet lives above the hospital (but, I want to add, an ortho specialist comes in to do these surgeries, so Jackson get excellent service!)  So he wasn't monitored 24/7 by someone in the room with him, but someone was nearby.  I know the vet visited him many times throughout the night.  I suspect, he was passed out the whole time.  It makes sense to ask that if she spends the night, how supervision/monitoring works.  If they literally leave her at 6pm and no one comes back or watches her via camera, etc until 9am tomorrow...well....good question.

I'm so happy to read she did well!  That's huge!!!

If you do end up taking her home, get phone numbers!  And get help here, as some folks have done it.  I'd caution you, though, that since you are a self-proclaimed worrier, to think deeply if it's best for Libby to come home tonight?

~Katy

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!

Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 12:37 pm
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Thank you so much Katy.  My logical side was thinking the same thing about the super meds.  We obviously won't be able to give her injections here.  I will ask about the monitoring overnight.  I would've thought the gal on the phone would have told me if they did such a thing, but who knows.

 

I seem to cry when I come out of anesthesia, so maybe that's what's happened to Libby?  You all are so encouraging but I just want to cry.  Sorry.  I need to hold it together for the surgeon's call.  Yes, I'm glad there weren't any major complications and I know this is temporary.  As the saying goes... this too shall pass.

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14



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31 January 2013 - 12:54 pm
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Amy,

I am sorry if my post worried you.  Just was trying to give you some options that I was given with Sassy since my vet wasn't there after 6pm.  Sassy was pretty doped up too when she came home and slept all night but I didn't.  I was awake every 15-20 minutes to check on her.  Katy is correct about the anthesia part too.  I know when I went through surgery I made noises coming out so a lot of it could have been that.  Once again I apologize if I worried you.

 

 

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

New Haven, CT
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31 January 2013 - 12:56 pm
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Then CRY!  Cry a lot!  Keep on crying!  Your tears may be for cancer, for Libby, for yourself, and/or b/c of the huge build up of emotions.  You got to find a way to be strong for everyone, but if that means releasing some of your pain and feelings with tears, flow away, my dear.  Make sure you also cry b/c you just saved Libby from a lot of pain.  You just gave her many painless months.  Many.

Your experience with anesthesia is similar to her's.  We all make these involuntary noises.  She could make those all night and be perfectly OK....is that what you want to hear all night?  Maybe!  Maybe not!

You can cry to the surgeon, too.  I did.  They are used to it.

Try not to regret anything.  You've put a lot of thought into these plans and her future.  You've made an excellent move for the moment: that damn cancer is out, gone, away, and will not cause her pain in her leg anymore.  Now, here's where the adventure begins.  All 3 of you will have things to learn and there will be stumbles, but no regrets.  Stay strong (even if it's with tears)!  And from here on, try not confuse stumbles with regret.  OK?

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!

In your heart, where I belong.
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31 January 2013 - 12:57 pm
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Glad to hear that the surgery is done and Libby did well.

The overnight monitoring issue has come up here a lot. I think it's safe to say the general consensus here (not from vets but owners) is that we all want some kind of overnight care that we feel good about. Personally, I would not leave my dog like that without some overnight care. As Katy said, it could be that someone comes and checks periodically. To me, that would be a minimum. And I don't think I would be satisfied with less often than every 2 hours. Will a vet get up and go to the office every 2 hours during the night? I kind of doubt it, but maybe.

Different people handle things like this in many different ways. Some people can't stand to watch their dog get their nails clipped or blood drawn. Others want to participate in the amputation  Most are in between. I am not squeamish and am a bit of a control freak, so in your place I would lobby hard to bring the dog home. I would just decide I wasn't going to sleep, probably, and park a mattress and sleeping bag on the floor near the dog and be available. If she's truly under the influence and doesn't need anything, then great. You sleep.

If she needs pain meds during the night, she can certainly have them if you are there. The vet originally had planned to release Libby to you same day, so he had a plan for overnight pain meds for you at home. And administering an injection is not difficult, if it's not an IV. You could be taught in about 3 minutes. If she has a catheter in a vein, they can even leave it in and show you how to do an injection directly into it. That's not hard and involves basic common sense for keeping it sterile. 

If you are one of the folks who really doesn't want to see or hear your dog in pain (or confused, which is probably closer to the truth), then the emergency clinic would be a good option for you. And truly, much of the early troubling behavior (whining, yelping, panting, looking distressed) comes from being whacked out of their minds of narcotics. 

Whatever you decide, I don't think you should let Libby be without anyone checking on her from 6 pm till 7 am or whenever someone arrives. And whoever checks on her needs to know how to tell if she needs meds and know how to give them. The vet's 15-year-old daughter isn't an appropriate choice, even if she wants to be a vet.

And all of that advice is worth every penny you paid for it! Good luck with your decision, and don't be afraid to ask the vet a lot of questions. 

Shari

From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.

Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/

Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 1:08 pm
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No apologies necessary, Michele.  I need/want to hear everything...good or bad.  My stomach was turning as I wrote the original post so I didn't mean it to come off as being due to your response.  It's all good.

 

Katy, thanks again.  I know this will get better.  I'm hoping that she is better by closing time and we can bring her home. 

 

Shari, I too am very concerned about no supervision, if that's the case.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  Our first dog was diabetic so I'm not squeamish about injections.  I guess I really won't know anything until I talk to the surgeon.   

 

I keep saying "thank you" to everyone but it just doesn't seem to be enough.  I truly, truly feel better when I read all of your encouragement and helpful advice.

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14

Portage Lake, Maine
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31 January 2013 - 1:45 pm
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I would rather see your pup stay at the vet's office IMO...for a day or two.  My dog stayed overnight in the ER two nights and my vet transported her there nightly.  I would think your vet would do that??

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 2:26 pm
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Wow, that's pretty cool the vet did the transporting.  I still haven't heard from the surgeon yet.  I will certainly explore all options.  I'm not against her spending the night but I AM against her spending the night alone.

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14

Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 3:21 pm
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My husband and I spoke with the surgeon.  She said Libby tolerated the surgery very well.  She was even up and walking a bit.  She felt strongly about keeping her over night to ensure she gets plenty of fluids, which I'm glad about that part.  Dehydration has been a concern.   I'm not happy about no supervision but the surgeon is working late tonight.  Libby will be groggy and sleep peacefully I hope.  We could have moved her to the ER clinic but I just didn't think it would be good for her to be moved and us leave her again. Right or wrong, that's the decision we made.  I just want the evening to go quickly now.

 

After removing her limb, the surgeon opened the tumored area.  She said it looked really awful and it was close to fracturing.  She said it looked like osteo to her but will know for sure after biopsy. 

 

I told her I was also concerned about her staying because my vet said she would go home if all went well.  She politely, but hesitantly, made a comment about the differences in their philosophy of care post-op.  She likes her patients to be well hydrated and she's going to check her blood count in the morning.  

 

I was all prepared in my head to have her home today so this has kind of thrown me but at least that nasty cancer is off and she will be pain free soon.

 

Again, thanks so much for all of you caring and concern.

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14

In your heart, where I belong.
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31 January 2013 - 3:40 pm
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Amy, this sounds reasonable. I didn't realize the surgeon was not your regular vet. That changes things a little. Maybe. smiley Do they practice together? I'm just thinking if each checked on Libby during the night, that would cover things nicely. And if not, the surgeon saying she will work late is an indication that she takes pain management seriously. And since she is a specialty surgeon, that also speaks well of that. 

I don't blame you for not wanting to be the ones to move Libby. If the vet were going to do it, then you would know she wouldn't be hurt and wouldn't get anxious over seeing you.

Let us know how she is doing in the morning. She will be very, very happy to see you. She will probably get all wiggly but still be drugged so don't expect her to make a lot of sense! But she will be delighted when you arrive.

Shari

From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.

Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/

The Rainbow Bridge



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31 January 2013 - 4:14 pm
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Whew, I'm just now catching up on what's going on with Libby, what a day you've had! I know this is tough. The whole amputation ordeal is a learning experience that can be quite emotional.

Breathe, tomorrow will be here before you know it and she will be fine, you'll all get to go home and snuggle. I echo what others have said; learn from this experience and move on. Regret sucks up energy and right now Libby needs you to be strong and confident, which I know you can be.

Hang in there!

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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Fort Wayne, IN
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31 January 2013 - 6:00 pm
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Yes, Shari they practice together.  There are probably 5 or 6 vets in this practice.  Funny, I never really paid much attention to all the other vets.  Bret & I have been married almost 29 years and we've had the same vet.  He was also my parents' vet when I lived at home.  That makes him sound old, but he's not. I've never had a reason to utilize or consult with any other vet in the practice.  I'm gettin' a schoolin'!  No one is going to check on her through the night and I'm not happy about that.  The surgeon said she has no reason to think there will be any problems.  She will be sleepy while getting her fluids.  She was also going to give her a shot for nausea and another pain injection.  I'm hopeful we will be able to pick her up in the morning like the surgeon said.

 

You're right, it's been quite a day!  One I don't care to live over again, either :)  We want to get her home so we can love her up.  Bret & I agreed to always be upbeat and happy in front of her.  She will be so happy to see her soul mate...her daddy.

 

Thanks for the warnings about how groggy and loopy she may be when we get her home.  I also know we need to focus on her pain management .  I hope getting the right combo comes easily.

 

When I get more of this experience under my belt, I hope I am as helpful to newcomers as you all have been to me.  

 

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14

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