Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hi everyone,
Crystal had her first round of chemo on 1/26 for OSA. She was fine until last Wednesday, 2/8, when she started experiencing severe weakness in her hind legs. After a trip to the vet on Thursday, we discovered that her WBC was low and that her blood pressure was over 200 mm HG. She seems to be a bit better today but definitely not 100%. She's still having difficulty getting herself up and when she is up, can't stand for very long and has some difficulty walking. Needless to say, her quality of life has been so low in these past few days. Because of this, I am seriously considering stopping the chemotherapy. I'm having a lot of difficulty with this decision as I wanted to fight this damn cancer with everything possible but it breaks my heart to watch her suffer like this. Has anyone else had to stop chemo for their dog? I've considered going down to a lower dose of Carboplatin but how effective would that really be? Would metronomics be a good alternative? She doesn't have any mets though. Of course, there's always the natural route but to be honest, I'm skeptical.
We did it all - IV chemo, Metronomics, and the natural stuff on top of that, but Abby did have mets. We had 15 wonderful months w/ our girl - a year of that with mets. Others have done no chemo and gotten a lot longer with their pups. It just seems like such a crap shoot...
I think it's a good idea to stop the IV chemo if she is not handling it well. You could discuss MP w/ your vet/oncologist, or just try the natural route. Have you looked into artemisinin ? It's an herb that's been used to treat malaria for many many years so is known to have very minimal instances of side effects. It's recently been being studied as a cancer fighter as well.
It's hard to know what to do. Unfortunately, there is no magic bullet. You kinda gotta go with your gut. If you have any questions about what we did w/ Abby, feel free to PM me.
Jackie, Angel Abby's mom
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
I'm so sorry Crystal is having so much difficulty. I don't know a lot about Carboplatin or even metronomic therapy, as Rio's cancer was Mast Cell instead of OSA, but I'm sure you'll get others who have that information. What I do know about though, is wanting to fight. We battled cancer for more than four and a half years, but there comes a point -- and it's different for every dog -- where the quality of life has to matter more than the quantity. If the chemo is making Crystal that sick, then definitely alternative therapies would would be a viable option to pursue. In every course of treatment, you continue to have the option to discontinue if 1) it's making things worse instead of better, or 2) its not helping at all.
Regardless of what you decide to do, you know your situation, your dog and your finances better than anyone, and will be able to make the best possible decision for your situation. We wish you and Crystal the best with what you're facing...
Rio's momma, Micki
 |
~ ~ Rio ~ ~ |
I'm such a chemo skeptic and quality of life advocate. So, if you are taking a vote - I vote stopping it!
I know I sound like a sour-puss but I truly believe when the money trail is followed, one can see why chemo is recommended regardless if it helps or doesn't. It may or it may not. I haven't seen a good pattern from being here a while to see that it helps. Jaded, I know. But an vet oncologist has to justify his career and has to make money.
A dog doesn't understand why he is sick from chemo he just knows he is sick and that's one less day he isn't happy. A day in a dog's life is like 1 to 2 weeks in our life. (time wise in the length of time they live)
Just like giving NSAIDS, I would rather shorten their life span and make them have great quality days by using an NSAID, than to try to get an extra day of non-quality life.
I'm certainly not saying I'm right by any means, it's just my opinion. And goodness, I haven't been through bone cancer to know how I would react in the situation but I hope I always put quality vs. quantity first.
Just my opinion...
Comet - 1999 to 2011
She departed us unexpectedly January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.
She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.
first, know that we all want crystal to feel better, and enjoy each and every moment she can. sounds like you have a game plan. talk to your oncologist for options, and do what your heart tells you is best for your girl. we all want them to be with us forever, but that's not realistic. whatever you decide, when you make the decision out of love for crystal, then it will be right. as others have said, she doesn't understand cancer, or chemo, or WBC...she just knows she loves you and you love her. trust yourself to do the right thing.
charon & spirit gayle
Life is good, so very, very good!!! Gayle enjoyed each and every moment of each and every wonderful day (naps included). She left this world December 12, 2011 – off on a new adventure.
Love Never Ends
We stopped Tate after 4 instead of going the whole 6. He was on CCNU and was pretty sick after the 3rd so they reduced the 4th and was "okay" but we just didn't want to do it anymore. Tate had histiocytic sarcoma so we knew that no matter what, he wasn't going to live that long and so we wanted to get on with "happy" and "fun". We did, however, switch over to metronomics with the understanding we'd stop at the first sign of even a minor a side effect and he didn't have any at all. And I figured he wasn't going to live long enough to mess up his liver.
Couple other things. Ge'Lena, you're not a sour puss at all. I think every responsbile owner has to examine why they are doing this and answer the question that keeps popping up here, "Is it for me or is it for him?" And I am of the radical opinion, that dogs being dogs, they don't know any different and so it is always for us. It's a matter of how much you are willing to put your dog through to keep him around and that is never an easy question to answer because you just don't know how effective any of this stuff is.
The other thing is that I agree they love to ring the cash register, there is an entire industry built up around people like us, people with money and dogs, everything from advanced medical treatments to little frou-frou outfits. That's why you have to do your own research and not rely on them solely. I read the research papers and knew what was going on out there before we put Tate on CCNU. Did it help? Beats me. Maybe.
http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.
I would definitely stop the chemo for now and see if Crystal gets better. I chose not to do chemo because Valentina had such a long hard recovery and because of the expense. Before the amputation I thought I wanted to do it and I was determined to find a way to afford it. But when Valentina was having the complications I put that on the back burner. My vet tried to encourage me to start it right away but I was like no way! I'm not doing anything else to her right now! Then when I realized how long the complications took to resolve I decided completely against the chemo. All that mattered to me was that Valentina was happy and feeling well again. Even if I could have afforded it I still would have chosen not to do it after her ordeal. I thought that since I didn't do chemo her cancer would come back quickly and I wouldn't have much time with her. But in the end she didnt even really die from the cancer. It was her spine problems that got the best of her. It turned out completely different than I thought it would. But now that I look back I am really glad that I didn't do the chemo and after she finally healed she felt wonderful and we had the very best times together. Everyone is different though. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
I have not had to deal with chemo yet in any of the dogs I have had. But I have had to deal with "is it time?". It sounds like you are looking at this with intelligence and compassion. So I am sure you are going to do the right thing for your pup. I just wanted to support you and say how hard it is to know when is the right time. I read a study once that asked the respondents if they thought they made the decision to end their beloved pups life at the right time. Apparently it went something like this:
54% said they waited too long
44% said they did it too early
2% said they did it at the right time
Most of us struggle with this decision and your heart can't make the decision. It's so hard when you are dealing with doctors and medical data and watching your dog trying to figure out how much is enough. Like the other poster said, go with your gut. Your gut has the intuition and the reason you need to make the best decision for your best friend.
Wow I am sure learning a lot about all this ,actually much more then i care to (being the squeamish type,when it comes to medicine ), though i could never figure out why.Having lived on a farm for 20 years with the mess and blood of raising animals for food (some people think it all comes neatly wrapped ) and the fact i lived in a hospital for almost a year ,but when they bring out the needles just get out of my way ,I'm heading out or down. So all of this medical stuff is really trying on me ,But Rooster my Pyrenees seems to be taking the Chemo okay ,though only having two treatments ( I still think poison ) we will have to wait and see how it effects him. If he handles it well without being sick of overly exhausted i think i will continue ( though strange as it may seem I myself would choose not to have the chemo if i were in his collar and was of sound mind) If he starts to show extreme Ill effects ,then i would have to remove him from the treatments (poisoning) and put him on an all natural regime of holistic healing substances (which the vet has me not giving Rooster while undergoing Chemo ,with the belief that the healing effects of substances such as Milk Thistle and Curcumin can hamper the effects of the chemo(poison) from killing off the multiplying cells they are intended to kill.( Any comments?) So i would say to do what is in your heart what you feel with the connection of you and your friend and what feelings you have about the whole Chemo trip to begin with. I myself guess that the scant hope that this wonderful ………. modern western medicine will aid in the battle my friend is going through,is worth the try until i myself or my friend Rooster lets known that it should cease . Its a scant and fine line we walk in this whole poison the being in order to poison the disease, and the also often long drawn out scene of the final days . In the end i think that each separate being and battle is as unique as we all our ,in each and every different way. So myself for my friend ,companion and retired service dog will continue with the chemo until its done or we decide its no longer an option and will then ramp up on the holistic approach ( to with which in my own personal experience have had great results ) . Sometimes i feel kinda stuck in the groove of this whole western medicine approach to healing in the form of the animal hospital after breaking free from it in the human form , I just want what is the best and hope there are no smoke a mirrors being played out for the sake of another form of grift. And also will have to live with the decisions I make and hope I have not played myself and my friend into a painted corner. I hope my comment helped you and hope that i in no way offended you and your friend in this of trying times . David (The Pet) ……….Go check out rooster tripaweds blog ,as me he takes each and every up and down as an adventure. Thanks .
http://threeleg.....pawds.com/
Also as a side note ,or rather a bottom note ,as it is below that lats post .The fine scant line also plays out in the end .After going through this a few times it has helped to know when it is time . I write songs and wrote this one her about just this subject weather with dogs or humans ,I hope you don.t mind me posting it
Its gonna get us all before were ready/ So pack it up that one great final load/ and just let go and ride that line real steady/
and cruise on down that last great final road
To stand upon the edge and gaze the future/ without participation like the past/ and wonder should we fight this end and nurture/
or step off the cliff that ends it all at last.
Is one more days weak presence really worth it / how long then should we have to kill the pain/ and watch this slow sad battle finnaly
end it/or should we hit the switch that stops the train/
We've been there quite a few times in our own lives / JUST not waNting to know whats around the bend / and watching every breath
like its the last life/ we wait until the pain brings on the end/
You just can't tell from where will come that fine line .The edge thats always just so hard to cross ,To just realize the fight is right quite
futile and the extras days wont ever ease the loss/ copyright Dec. 2012.
http://threeleg.....pawds.com/
love the song 🙂
I did the carboplatin and the metronomics with Sammy, and I have to say the metronomics didn't affect Sammy at all. It wasn't until 2 months ago that he got a bladder infection. I think he was cancer free at that point, but 2 months later without the metronomics he had a nodule in his lung, and it was in his shoulder.
Coincidence? I don't know, but if you don't want to do the Carboplatin, I don't blame you. I would really consider the metronomics , and power mushrooms, fish oil and other therapies. That is what I would do, but everyone is different, with different reasons. The metronomics costs about $48 a month with shipping, it came from AZ.
Good luck and I hope she feels better soon.
Diagnosed with osteosarcoma in the right front leg 8/23/10,
leg fractured 8/27/10,
leg amputated 8/30/10
http://sammyand.....pawds.com/
I couldn't begin to say how special Sammy is to us. Living and laughing with and loving this wonderful boy is priceless.
I was the chemo naysayer, and my husband and our vet pleaded with me to take the chance, just once and if Trouble had any adverse effects we could stop. Our case was a bit different from most. Her cancer was totally contained to the tumor. They felt the chemo would truly extend her life, and as it turned out it did. I attribute it to giving her the 27 1/2 months we had.
Is it for everyone? Absolutely not. If Trouble had the problems you are describing for Crystal, I would have stopped it immediately. You have to make the decisions on a case by case basis. What is best for your dog, for your family, for your finances.
Do some vets push it for the $$ value to their bottom line? Probably. I have great respect for the guidance we were given by our vet and am well aware everyone is not so lucky. I think it is unfair to lump all vets into the 'in it for themselves' category.
Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul. Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.
I didn't mean to imply our vet was in it for the money, he nailed Tate's diagnosis the first time he examined Tate and was honest and forthright about the prognosis. And his explanations to us reiterated what I found in the literature. I just meant I didn't know him from Adam and he had my dog's life in his hands, I just needed to understand this guy before I could trust him.
Now the center he worked out of I wasn't that crazy about. They knew Tate personally, they knew his case, they had all his records. But they always wanted me to bring him in, whereas our local vet would always help us over the phone, let me vent my worries and then explain to me why I shouldn't worry. I just wish I had been more educated when Tate developed a limp, I would have insisted on x-rays instead of the pain med + wait-and-see.
http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.
When I was making some decisions for Maggie my vet said something that really helped me. She said 'at some point the treatment becomes worse than the disease'.
I think that is applicable with chemo. If it was a sure thing- or even a mostly sure thing I would say stick it out. But the fact is that you just don't know. I did 6 months of chemo with Maggie after her amp, she had mast cell cancer like Rio. She tolerated it well and I have no regrets about doing it. Is it why she lived almost 4 years when her prognosis was 6 months?? There is no way to know. I would not have continued the chemo if it really impacted her quality.
Stopping chemo is not giving up, or not trying. Like you said- it is about Crystal's quality of life. Mag's little sis Tani is living with mast cell cancer. She has had several tumors removed, and has new ones, but I am not doing any more surgery on her. She is almost 12 and has some other health issues. No chemo either. We are using some supplements and hoping for the best. For now she is happy and enjoying her life- and I am good with that.
Karen and the pugapalooza
You could either reduce the carboplatin by 25% or try metronomics . OSA is one of those cancers where there is no right answer. It is true that every dog is an individual but I can attest to the fact that overall dogs with OSA do live an average of 1-2 years longer with chemo. I would talk to your oncologist to see if she can give you her opinion on using metronomic chemo at this point rather than using carboplatin again.
I also used some holistic things like mushrooms and artemisinin for my dog after she finished the chemo and those things usually do not make dogs feel sick.
Remember that there is no wrong choice and you have already done the most important thing which is to remove the leg and end the pain!
Pam
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