Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
Tripawds is your home to learn how to care for a three legged dog or cat, with answers about dog leg amputation, and cat amputation recovery from many years of member experiences.
Join The Tripawds Community
Learn how to help three legged dogs and cats in the forums below. Browse and search as a guest or register for free and get full member benefits:
Instant post approval.
Private messages to members.
Subscribe to favorite topics.
Live Chat and much more!
Register
Log In
Members
Add Topic
Offline
Maybe the answer is here somewhere. Maybe there is no one answer, but what I'm wondering about is simply this: Catie's chemo treatment (for osteosarcoma) calls for 6 treatments of alternating drugs: carboplatin and doxyrubicin (spelling eludes me right now). Is this what most people have had recommended? Catie has since had two treatments of each and had more side effects (lethargy, loss of appetite, loose stools, vomit) with doxy - in particular her last treatment. Some hasty internet searching didn't provide any clear data on the effectiveness of alternating drugs. I'm also confused over the variation in the number of treatments prescribed. Some vets recommend five chemotherapy treatments; some six.
Now, it's not that I distrust Catie's oncologist but I have to say Catie's reaction to her last treatment (nasty doxy) distressed me. She's been through so much and to see her unwell for a week every three weeks is really, really hard. So. My question is, before I approach the vet, is this protocol - number of treatments and alternating medications - the common one? Does anyone know if there any measurable difference in outcome (remission; survival; the uncomfortable stuff I don't like talking or thinking about) between having 5 treatments or 6?
Thank you. If the answer is already here in these forums somewhere, I apologize for the redundant question.
Carmen
Catie -
Birthday – November 4 2003
Amputation – January 13 2010
Crossed the Bridge – June 2 2011
Hi Carmen,
Mackenzie was diagnosed with osteosarcoma too but was only prescribed the carboplatin. So not sure about the effects of doxyrubicin. She did a total of 5 treatments of carboplatin although it was recommended to do 6. When it came down to deciding if we should go through with the 6th treatement, my oncologist explained to me that 5 treatments are definitely better than 4 but that 6 treatments may not necessarily be better than 5. Mackenzie had some bad side effects too from the carboplatin for the first 5 days and it was very distressing. So I was relieved when we decided to only do 5 treatments and not do the 6th. She's now on the metronomic chemo plan and this seems to be working well for her so far.
Also because Mackenzie had such a bad reaction to the chemo, her oncologist lowered the chemo dosage which seemed to make her side effects better (if there is such a thing.) Maybe something to also talk to your oncologist about? It's a fine balance because you don't want to lower it too much where it has little effect but you also don't want to hurt her quality of life. This chemo stuff is so tough - my stomach would always be in knots after one of Mackenzie's chemo treatments....it's a roller coaster.
Wish you the best for Catie and hope you're able to work out a happy medium on this with her next treatment.
Kami
My sweet golden Mackenzie. She became my angel on Dec 29, 2010 at the age of 8 1/2 although she was always my angel from the time we brought her home. She was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Sept 2009 and officially became a tripawd (front leg) on Nov 5, 2009. She will be forever in my heart and now she's running free with all of our other tripawd heroes. I love you Mackenzie!
Magic started with the carboplatin and from what I could glean, that is apparently the "gold standard" I think 6 treatments 2-3 weeks apart. He sailed through the first one. However, his white blood cell count went waaaaaay down and he was put on antibiotics as a precaution and about a week later they came up. However, we did a chest xray before his second one and we have lung mets. two and a possible third one. So the vet said the cancer had laughed at our first treatment and switched him to the doxorubicin. He also sailed pretty much through that one other than maybe being a little more tired...it was hard to tell since it poured down rain and we couldn't go do our normal stuff. We are having xrays on Friday and that will determine the next treatment. If they are the same or smaller, she will do an echocardiagram (apparently the doxorubicin is hard on the heart) and go from there.
His vet also mentioned there is another drug (she didn't give me the name) that there is "no real paper on" yet, so the bag of tricks isn't empty.
So that is the info we got....
Good luck to you!!!!
Carmen, I can't blame you about the confusion.
Recently we asked Dr. Rosenberg of the Veterinary Cancer Group of Southern California about the latest recommended course of therapy for osteosarcoma treatment. You can read about it and watch her comments here:
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
gayle had a soft tissue sarcoma which is different but she's been doing the doxorubicin, with the intent of doing five treatments. we were told five is the max. the first one was pretty non-eventful, the second caused some diarrhea. we did the third treatment on april 26th, and the 'bad effects' seem to be cummulative. more days of loose poops, a few small vomits and yesterday a day of real lethargy. (she looked like i remember feeling when you've had too much to drink and want to lay down on the bed to see if the world would stop spinning...) now today, she's back to her old self, pretty much. my vet is going to prescribe some nausea medicine going forward, and is consulting with the UT vet school oncologist to see if we need to maybe bump the next treatment back a week or so, or if there's an alternative, or what. i think the doxorubicin is just really rugged, and we are apprehensive about our next step if #4 is even worse...
Life is good, so very, very good!!! Gayle enjoyed each and every moment of each and every wonderful day (naps included). She left this world December 12, 2011 – off on a new adventure.
Love Never Ends
There are different protocols and although it makes sense to hit the cancer with different drugs there are no studies that prove that this works any better and there are usually more side effects with the doxorubricin (Adriamycin). The latest study indicating that carboplatin alone for 6 treatments averages 500 plus days survival is much better than prior stats involving combo drugs or even carbo alone for 5 treatments. If it were my dog I would ask your oncologist if she has seen the new study. You could still do 6 total carboplatins and stop the dox.
Pam
Hi Catie and Carmen
Before we began chemo, well Tazzie not me, I expected the onco to say "only Carboplatin' based on what I read on the net and here. But she did exactly what you did. You are in Edmonton, so I assume you are at a different clinic, unless you went to Calgary for treatment. I was uncomfortable with this recommendation, but how can one really question these things? My Onco actually wanted to use Cisplatin instead of Carbo and that has really nasty side effects.
Tazzie was the way you describe Catie, having more side effects for the Doxy (adriamycin). Nothing serious, but low grade nausea (easy for me to say low grade, but he didn't actually vomit), lethargy, and loss of any hair that had started to grow back. I also wondered how it might be affecting his heart and there are a few other worries, e.g., if the Doxy gets outside the vein.
There have been a few dogs on this site since we appeared, July 2009, that have had serious problems while they were using Doxy. The owners did not know for sure that the Doxy caused the problems, but felt that it had.
Based on what I have seen since then, I'd definitely prefer the 6 x Carboplatin if I were to go the chemo route again. Depending on your onco, it might be hard to broach the subject tactfully. Perhaps Pam's suggestion of asking her if she has seen the results of the new study might be the best approach. That might still be enough to get a specialist's back up, but you gotta do what you feel is best for Catie. Or, just say you aren't comfortable with the side effects of Doxy, and would like to consider going the Carbo only route.
Do you communicate with her enough that you could bring it up before your next chemo appointment?
Did she give Catie Cerenia when having the Doxy chemo? It sounds like Catie should have had a shot before her chemo and pills to take home to hopefully prevent the nausea.
Keep us posted and hugs to Catie. Sorry to hear you are getting more winter weather! It is still bright and sunny over here. Who'd have thunk?
Susan
Hi Carmen,
If I were you I'd listen to Dr. Pam's suggestions and ask you r current vet about it. After everything you've read here... you must know that different dogs react differently to different chemo regims. I don't think there is a perfect treatment at this time. Some seem to be better than others, but only in certain dogs. The best thing is to keep asking questions, do your research... and in the meantime... just love and spoil Catie for as long as you can!
Angel Jake and Wolfie's Mom
Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!
etgayle said:
gayle had a soft tissue sarcoma which is different but she's been doing the doxorubicin, with the intent of doing five treatments. we were told five is the max. the first one was pretty non-eventful, the second caused some diarrhea. we did the third treatment on april 26th, and the 'bad effects' seem to be cummulative. more days of loose poops, a few small vomits and yesterday a day of real lethargy. (she looked like i remember feeling when you've had too much to drink and want to lay down on the bed to see if the world would stop spinning...) now today, she's back to her old self, pretty much. my vet is going to prescribe some nausea medicine going forward, and is consulting with the UT vet school oncologist to see if we need to maybe bump the next treatment back a week or so, or if there's an alternative, or what. i think the doxorubicin is just really rugged, and we are apprehensive about our next step if #4 is even worse...
Forgive me, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since tomorrow are the xrays and we may be going forward with another doxy treatment, this was really good info...Magic hasn't had fully formed stools since his surgery....could be the supplements or fish oil or something...but I haven't seen regular piles since then.
Thank you everyone for your input. We definitely have some questions for the oncologist; but will make sure to frame them very tactfully. Having dealt with human doctors during my mother's illness I know they, for sure, don't appreciate being questioned by nonprofessionals and I'm hoping the onco doesn't share the same arrogance.
Again, the information in these posts has been very very helpful. Thanks!!
Catie -
Birthday – November 4 2003
Amputation – January 13 2010
Crossed the Bridge – June 2 2011
P.S. Good luck, Magic.
Catie -
Birthday – November 4 2003
Amputation – January 13 2010
Crossed the Bridge – June 2 2011
Hi Diane - first of all, wanted to wish you the best tomorrow on the x-rays. I imagine this is a little unnerving right about now...I just really pray and hope that Magic does ok tomorrow so just wanted you to know that we're thinking of you...please keep us posted.
Hi Carmen,
I wanted to let you know that my oncologist at the VCG (the one that's founded by Dr. Mona Rosenberg here in LA that Jerry mentions) also confirmed that same study with me that Dr. Pam mentions when we were trying to decide the best chemo treatment plan for Mackenzie - carboplatin was shown to be the most effective (6 treatments)....so i definitely concur with Dr. Pam, Tazzie and everyone else on this. Hope this doesn't add more confusion to an already confusing situation.
Kami (Mackenzie's Mom)
My sweet golden Mackenzie. She became my angel on Dec 29, 2010 at the age of 8 1/2 although she was always my angel from the time we brought her home. She was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Sept 2009 and officially became a tripawd (front leg) on Nov 5, 2009. She will be forever in my heart and now she's running free with all of our other tripawd heroes. I love you Mackenzie!
Sorry Carmen, I didn't see your post before I left mine. Sounds like you got it all under control...good luck with your vet!
My sweet golden Mackenzie. She became my angel on Dec 29, 2010 at the age of 8 1/2 although she was always my angel from the time we brought her home. She was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Sept 2009 and officially became a tripawd (front leg) on Nov 5, 2009. She will be forever in my heart and now she's running free with all of our other tripawd heroes. I love you Mackenzie!
I'm a little late on this discussion... I'm not sure how I missed it, but figured I'd weigh in. Holly's oncologist recommended 6 treatments of Carboplatin. Her dose was lowered for treatments 4 and 5 because she was nauseous for so long after treatments 2 and 3. Treatment 5 seemed to be ok for her - between the lower dose and anti-nausea meds she seemed to do much better this last time. Our vet called today to say he spoke with the oncologist and they would like to start Holly on metronomic therapy about 10 days after she's had her final Carboplatin treatment (which is next week). So it sounds like Holly's on a similar path to Mackenzie. Kami - how long did you wait to start the metronomics with Mackenzie? It seems like Holly's not quite back to herself at day 10, so I keep thinking that's awfully soon! But I'm a worrier at heart... The vet said they'd have her take pepcid ac along with the metronomic meds.
Carmen - good luck with your discussion with the doctor. Our oncologist was very open to lots of questions, but I know some specialists are not like that. We wish you the best! The bottom line is that you need to advocate for Catie - and you need to be comfortable with her treatment. But that's not always easy.
Diane - good luck with Magic's treatments!
Susan
Holly joined the world of tripawds on 12/29/2009. She has a big little sister, Zuzu, who idolizes Holly and tries to make all of her toys into tripawds in Holly's honor. And she's enjoying life one hop at a time!
http://anyemery.....ipawds.com
Hi Susan,
Yes, it does seem that Mackenzie and Holly are on the same path. When Mackenzie had her 5th treatment, she got a UTI and we didn't discover this until maybe 2 - 3 weeks later (her white blood cell ct was down and her protein levels were high due to the infection.) So our oncologist recommended that we hold off on the 6th treatment and do the metronomic. But she wanted to make sure Mackenzie was completely clean of any infection so I think we waited more than a month before starting the metronomic after her 5th treatment. From what I understand there's really no time limit on this - you can start it any time. One good thing about the metronomic is that it doesn't seem to have any side effects (except for causing irritation of the bladder lining which can cause infections so she's also taking Lasix - a diuretic to help minimize this). Mackenzie seems to be doing well so far. I might ask your vet before starting the metronomic about doing a urinalysis just to make sure she doesn't have any infections (and maybe it's not even an issue in Holly's case) and also ask about taking the diuretics too if this hasn't come up already. I know Jerry has some great information he's shared on this so you might want to check that out too. Good luck!
Kami (Mackenzie's Mom)
My sweet golden Mackenzie. She became my angel on Dec 29, 2010 at the age of 8 1/2 although she was always my angel from the time we brought her home. She was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Sept 2009 and officially became a tripawd (front leg) on Nov 5, 2009. She will be forever in my heart and now she's running free with all of our other tripawd heroes. I love you Mackenzie!
1 Guest(s)
