Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hi everyone:
This is probably the wrong group to ask this question but here goes: our nine(?) year old rescue lab has a chrondosarcoma on her left rear leg. The estimated cost for her amp surgery is $2800-$3500, which seems a bit high, but apparently is not. She also has arthritis in her front shoulders and both hips. And a heart murmur, although minor. My last lab had to be put down because of lymphoma at 3.5 years. We had spent probably over $10K (we never added it up) trying to beat it, but she lasted probably another 6 months. We are told we may get an additional 1-3 years, but I don't want to go down that road again of $500 here and $1000 there every month. What has been your experience with the accuracy of these "life" predictions? Finally -- and yes, I know that every decision is individual and yadda yadda -- but how do you make these quality of life decisions? My vet says one thing and you good folks in these forums say another about "phantom pain ," and etc. How do we know what our dogs feel or think about going it on three legs? If I think she would hate it (how would I know?), is tah enough to justify my withholding her medical care? Should the fact that I think I would lose my mind if we went ahead with the amp and then she lasts only 6 mos guide our decision? I know it is ultimately my decision. Thanks.
Welcome! We've moved you post here to its own topic so it doesn't get buried in the Amputation Costs topic where you originally posted. Your future forum posts will not require moderation.
Yes, every dog is different. But there are various ways to determine if pets are in pain, and measure quality of life.
Everypawdy here understands that cost is a huge consideration. But "only 6 months" is relative. Dogs live in the now and make the most of every day. So six months pain free would provide a much better quality of life than living a medicated life with tumor pain which will only get worse. Unfortunately our furry friends can't talk, so ultimately the decision is up to you, your family and your vet—hopefully with the guidance of Tripawds members who will surely chime in soon.
Thanks for asking and best wishes! Please keep u posted.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I don't know anything about your particular sarcoma, but for me, I knew that it wasn't time to say goodbye to Otis. We have had three months post amp so far, and it has been absolutely worth it. (Although I am hoping for many more months together). He has adapted well to life on three legs, even with mild arthritis in his hips. At times, he yelps unexpectedly (phantom pain ?), but it is rarer and rarer and does not seem to interfere with his quality of life. I think he knows something is different (and he probably feels less pain on a daily basis now), but he just thinks about what he wants to do, not about the missing leg. He can play, go up and down stairs, steal food from the counter, chase cats and squirrels - all his normal doggy things. Otis is happy, for however long he has. For me, the amputation was definitely worth it and the alternative unacceptable. And yes, it is expensive, but you have the choice on many aspects of care. Some, for example, have gotten the amputation but chosen not to do chemo, for various reasons. Some choose not to do all the follow up visits. Talk to your vet about the costs and different treatment options, remembering that you do not have to decide on everything right now. Good luck with your decision!
Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016. Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016. Lung mets August 25, 2016. Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016. Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.
Wherever they are, they are together.
It wasn't time for our Bella either. (9 year old little hound) I was in shock when I took her in for a limp and they found the tumor. I was told if nothing was done she would have a month maybe two. I had never had any problems with her. We quickly decided to have her front leg amputated. We had to wait 5 days before surgery so she was on pain meds. Once surgery (April 13th) was over she had a hard time with the meds and some seepage. It was a rough two weeks recovery with coming off the meds, low blood count, blood transfusion and drainage from the seepage. Not to mention not getting around much at all. We began wondering if we had made the right decision and asked the vet if we should look at putting her down. Was told she was getting past the worst part and to hang on. We did and I have to tell you I am so glad we did. She is finally getting back to her old self and is adapting well to three legs. Due to the extra expenses (numerous trips to the animal emergency after hours) on top of the surgery we have decided to do not move forward with the chemo which is in another town and $500+ a treatment (5-6 treatments). We have been told even with the chemo she may have an extra 6 months. Even though she isn't expected to live for years, I just wasn't ready to let go when told initially one to two months. At least now we have a bit more time. She isn't in pain and seems to be enjoying life so we are just going to spoil her the best we can and make what time she does have left enjoyable. Hope this helps.
kathyb said
It wasn't time for our Bella either.
Thanks for the feedback Kathy! Consider starting a new topic to share Bella's story.
Your future forum posts will not require moderation.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
First of all, here at Tripawds, there's really no "wrong"'place to post. The dedicated moderators are vigilant about getting any posts to the best spot for feedback!
The MOST helpful thing in my decision was watching lots and lots and lots of videos of 3 legged dogs racing around and performing other fantastic fears. Such videos are easy to find.
Second, what do your vet and oncology surgeon have to say about the arthritis concerns? My 10 year old boy had a front leg amputation with some mild arthritis toward the bottom of his spine, and still felt leaps and bounds (literally) better post surgery. Getting rid of that painful spare let will likely be a great big relief.
Cost of surgery sounds reasonable. I don't know if runs differently for chondrosarcoma, but we were quoted in the 3-5,000 range depending on whether Tipper needed one night or two. It wound up a little over 3,000.
The only immediate decision you need to make is over palliative care. Again, I know little about palliative care for chondrosarcoma. In my experience, I cried like a lunatic when I first saw Tipper after surgery - not because I was sad for him, but because of relief and joy that he wasn't limping anymore! But surgery was a no-brainer for me because without it, any other palliative care wouldn't be enough (for me to accept on Tipper's behalf).
Following surgery, you'll have many options about treatment and whether you'll end up nickel/diming it (ok, let's be real- 500-1000 is more than a dime).
Life expectation estimates are usually based on studies that don't have a strong sample size or solid sub group data, and each dog is different. So, you really just need to decide what makes the most sense to you for palliative care. If you are thinking in terms of "buying time", you can't really bank on it. The pain / trauma of surgery lasts usually 2-3 weeks (and by trauma, I mean on us humans). And truly, pain had essentially disappeared as soon as the leg came off.
For me, the choice for amputation was easy. I had the money to do it. (But it's become a struggle with continued treatments). With the pain Tipper was in, I knew he would need amputation or to cross the rainbow bridge soon. He was in way too much pain to go on, and even with pain relievers, his shoulder was set to blow at any time. I did decide to go with follow up chemo, and the cancer has metastized anyway. He has tolerated it all well along the way. My decisions have been based on his mood and pain.
My mindset has always been about palliative care, and so far, I've selected the most aggressive means. But we can stop at any time.
There is tons of info on Trilawds about quality of life determiners that I think others have posted here.'
Here's a biggie - take pics and especially video right now. Watch older videos if you have them. This may help you evuate.'. Dogs can mask their pain pretty well. They're stoic for us delicate humans!
But overall, the surgery is the easiest part of this. I am going to attempt
to post a video of Tipper a few weeks after surgery AND suffering a blister read leg law, if I can find it. I'll post it in a new box.
Finally, there are no "right" or "wrong" decisions. Our general, everyday vet always reminds me that dogs don't know they're sick, or dying. They life in the now. It's us humans that hangups about time!
Best wishes to you and your fur baby. Go at this confidently. Your pup will show you the way.'
Here's our blog. I think it's the Dec or Feb post for the video, but it may not play. For what it's worth -take a peek and look at others as well! tipper.tripawds.com
Howdy and welcome!!
Like others have said, there really is no right or wrong decision. I have many unresolved feelings regarding our Harmony's fate and the part I played, but then I have a "come to Jesus meeting" with myself and remember her destiny was not of my doing, but cancer's. The only part I own is the journey and I don't think I could have lived with myself if I hadn't at least tried.
And that truly is what we're talking about; what is the lesser of all the evils? The answer - it's the one that will haunt you less after all is said-and-done.
One of my favorite analogies is the one about being in the plane when it crashes or in the barber's chair when it hits the barber shop. The destiny is the same. It's how we get there that's different.
Keep us updated my friend!
pam
Harmony became a Tripawd on 10/21/14 (MCT). She left us way too soon on 11/1/14.
"We miss you so much; our love, our heart, our Harmony."
- Pam, Ron and Melody, Meesha, Doublestuff and Mariah Carey
Our dog Sunny (13 years old) just had his leg amputated on Wednesday and the final cost was around $2,800. He spent one night in the hospital post-surgery. The low estimate they gave us was $1,800 the morning of the surgery and the high estimate was just over $3,200. We live in the Atlanta area so your estimate is on par with what we were given. His surgery was done at our specialty vet hospital here.
I know where you are coming from in terms of cost. We also had a cocker spaniel that had to have surgery for two ruptured disc followed by physical therapy to get him walking again. We got him through all of that and then he suffered from laryngeal paralysis. We did two surgeries because the surgeons were really optimistic, however ultimately his trachea collapsed and there wasn't much else we could do. In the end all of that happened in the span of about 6 months and we spent somewhere around $15k. Like you we never really added it up. We also have another dog with a grade 6 (highest) heart murmur and some other heart issues that has to see a cardiologist. She has been on heart meds now for just over six months and the improvement has been amazing. It is like night and day, so for me the predictions don't always mean much. Plus as previously pointed out the sample sizes generally are pretty small and ultimately you don't know how your dog will respond to treatment. As quickly as you can get over one thing, something completely unrelated can take you down as we sadly learned.
Those two situations factored heavily into our discussions as to what we should do about Sunny. When we first found his tumor I said because of his age there was no way I would amputate. However, ultimately we decided it was worth trying after reading blogs, these forums and talking to various people. Like you said though, its a personal decision that only you can make. I wish you the best of luck.
Have you made a decision? I think that. The really hard part. Once you decide you can develop a plan of action having a pan can be very empowering! Take care. Bandit and his Momma
My husband and I chose to pursue amputation but not chemo when our lab was diagnosed with osteosarcoma at 8 years old. It was not solely a cost-based decision, but we felt it allowed us to go in with a fairly clear understanding of costs and avoid the $500 here, $1000 there scenario you describe. Pursuing chemo would have been much more uncertain (although, for us, it turned out there really wasn't much time or hope for chemo).
I agree that you can't really bank on getting extra time, or ensuring that the time you have is quality time. You have to make the decision aware of all possibilities, and know that you're really only guaranteeing your pup a chance at more/better time. Our lab had no lung mets or lymph node spread at the time of amputation, but unfortunately she had to be put to sleep 10 weeks after surgery due to a sudden onset of severe seizures. According to our vet at Colorado State University (such a wonderful place!) the cancer likely spread to her brain or other internal organs and bypassed the lungs - an extremely rare scenario. Although in hindsight I can see her quality of life would have been much better at the end had we not put her through the amputation (she never really regained any meaningful stamina and had bouts of phantom pain ), I'd make the same decision again with the same information just to have given her a chance at a better quality of life.
That said, if I ever have a dog in the same situation I won't hesitate to shell out for the most advanced imaging - MRI, PET Scan, whatever - before I determine any other treatment! The vet said that would have likely revealed the spread of the cancer prior to amputation. Live and learn, I guess.
I'm so sorry to hear about your lab :(. A significant mass was found in our pittie-mix Bruce's front right leg about two weeks ago, he just underwent amputation on 5/13. He isn't home yet, we will bring him home Monday, but the cost for our amputation was estimated between 2500-3000$, and we are using a veterinary surgeon in Dallas, TX. When the mass was found on the xray, they also did a lung xray which was clear. We had the option to do nothing and continue pain medicine, perform an open biopsy (estimated $1800), palliative radiation without surgery (not sure how much this costs), or amputation. We decided to amputate because it would remove the pain and a definitive diagnosis could be made from a biopsy of the leg once it was removed. We will hear the results probably around the end of next week... the surgeon strongly suspects osteosarcoma, but there is a small chance it is a fungal infection. We came to our decision because it would diagnose his condition and spare him the pain of an open biopsy which could result inconclusive or most likely lead to the same outcome: a recommended amputation. Also, the cost of the biopsy and an amputation was going to be very difficult for us. Finally, trying to think of time in the same terms as our dogs do helped us make our decision as well. We were told on average Bruce has 4-6 months to live after amputation if its osteosarcoma. 4-6 months doesn't seem long enough for us, but to him its a considerable amount of time, especially to be pain free and able to run and play. Also, several pups on this forum lived considerably longer than that average, which gives us hope. I hope this helps, and prayers for you and your pup on your journey.
casey01 said
That said, if I ever have a dog in the same situation I won't hesitate to shell out for the most advanced imaging - MRI, PET Scan, whatever - before I determine any other treatment! The vet said that would have likely revealed the spread of the cancer prior to amputation. Live and learn, I guess.
Casey thanks for sharing your story and joining us. I'm really sorry about your pup, that is so heartbreaking. We appreciate your honesty and perspective, it's not easy to share stories like this. Knowing the great folks at CSU, it's clear she got the best treatment on earth.
You shed some interesting light on a conversation that happened when we were in a session at this year's AAHA conference. See my post and scroll down to the section about CT scans:
More Cancer Questions Answered at #AAHA2016
And see the section about CT scans on this one too:
News from #AAHA2016: Learn About Canine Osteosarcoma Breakthroughs
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi everyone: Thanks so much for all the info and concern. After listening to all sorts of people -- you good folks included -- we have decided to go ahead with the amputation. The tumor is almost visibly growing, so we are doing it this morning. I take her to the surgeon in a few hours. This doesn't match the time I stood at the foot of my wife's hospital bed with her neurosurgeon and was given two choices: remove part of her brain or she dies. But it is uncomfortably close. Sigh. I know I can't imagine her being happy on three legs, but I trust she will be, eventually. The lab rescue group guesses that May 23 will be her 9th birthday, BTW. Will post the outcome. Thanks again for all your support.
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