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cemil's friend malachi-first chemo treatment today
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Member Since:
22 August 2008
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5 January 2010 - 8:59 pm
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Sorry that I didn't get to this post until today.  It is not that common for carboplatin to cause nausea but some dogs are sensitive to it.  The dose sounds right since Tazzie was 185# and received 600 mg each treatment.  I would have the vet give an injection of Cerenia rather than Zofran at least 45 minutes prior to the next treatment.  If he needs Cerenia tablets the dose would be 2 to 3 of the 60 mg tabs once daily and I would also consider adding Carafate (sucralfate) 1 gram 2-3 times daily for 3-5 days.

I'm sure that the oncologist will be checking the white cell and platelet counts.  Those can drop anytime in the next 3 weeks so usually a CBC is checked 1 week after the first treatment and then just prior to the next injection.

I'm glad that it sounds like Cemil's friend is feeling better!

Pam

Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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5 January 2010 - 10:04 pm
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Hi Everyone!

I'm Christine, Malachi's mom. Wow! What a great group of people and so much information and experience. I'm sorry I didn't update about Mali sooner. Ever since Mali's dx on 12/10/09 and the amp surgery on 12/18 .. I've been swamped trying to learn all I can about OS, supplements, treatments, etc.

I hope this response gets posted to the topic ...

Mali had an uneventful evening and night. He seems to be doing better today. I spoke to his oncologist this morning and she said that yes, nauseousness and listlessness can happen right after the treatment. She said continue to give him the cerenia at the prescribed dose once a day, even if he feels or appears to feel fine. She said that usually the dogs do tank on day 5 when the treatment affects their bone marrow / immune system. If I need more cerenia .. just call and she'll give me more (this stuff must be like gold based on how cautiously its given out). She also said if he doesn't want food or just picks, that's fine as long as he's drinking water and urinating. She said if he vomits more than once,esp. when on the cerenia, call her or if after hours, bring him in to the ER, same with diarrhea. Okay. But she said unfortunately, what I'm seeing with Mali is not unusual at all. 🙁 So I guess on day 5(ish) Mali will be very lethargic/listless when the chemo hits the bone marrow .. ugh ..

I canceled his rehab session today .. don't want him to deal with it if he not feeling well or it won't be enjoyable for him to get massaged, etc. It can wait till he feels better sometime next week .. after day 5 effects, etc.

Tomorrow he goes back to the surgeon to recheck his incision site. That is looking good. Very little fluid now, and I think there should be no issues and maybe just one more recheck after this or they might discharge him.

I guess that is about it .. oh, Mali had his goat milk vanilla yogurt this morning with his probotics added and he enjoyed that. Now he is sitting in the yard, half in the sun and shade. Its cool but sunny out .. and if you are sitting in the sun, you'll get warm quick. But he drank his water from the water bucket and I thought he was coming in but he hopped past me and went back out into the yard. Gabby and Moe are outside with him, and Mali alerts and barks every now and then when he thinks he should. But he is sitting up and interested in what is going on around him. So much better than how he was last evening.

And tonight's update:

Even though it has been just over 2 weeks since his left front leg was amputated, Mali is definitely interested in getting out of the house and to go check out 'his' territory - meaning his street and how ever far he can see .. that is how Anatolians are - they like to patrol their area. Tonight we went to sit out in the yard and Oz was with us and Mali got up after a few minutes and started to head to the neighbors house across the street. So Oz and I went with him. Then at the 3rd house down, they put their xmas tree out for brush pick up and he just went to investigate that and pee on it .. he loves to mark the brush pick up piles. Then he was tired and laid down in the swale. Don came out to give me a jacket as he thought I was still sitting in the yard and then he saw us 3 houses away .. I called him and told him Mali seems too tired to walk back and to come get us in the minivan. Then Mali wanted to walk with the van moving beside him further down his street. I said no and told him to hup into the van and he did. Then we drove around the block and home. Mali came in the house all happy, smiling and eyes lit up as he had a good time. Oz was happy too .. a walk and a ride .. Wooo Hooo! Mali loves his walks and rides, so I think he misses that and he will pout when he is just 'stuck' in his yard or can only stay in the front yard.

Mali sleeps all day and all night too, so its not like he doesn't rest and sleep. He does. Plus he doesn't run around the yard to play with the others. He is just interested in his walk arounds and he does rest when he gets tired with hopping. If Don didn't come outside tonight, I would of just waited until he was ready to head home .. maybe in short segments, but that would of been okay too. Believe me, if it was summer time, I'd be lucky to get him to go out to potty. He hates it outside when its hot out and will not be outside unless very early morning or late at night when there is some relief from the heat.

I will ask the oncologist to give him a shot of cerenia before his next chemo treatment on 1/26 and I will ask for the other anti-nausea medication as well. Thank you for that information. I did ask the oncologist if she gave him too much carboplatin and she said she gave him a bit less then what his weight required as she gives the dosage based on lean body weight and she felt Mali is about 7 lbs overweight! Good grief!! Mali lost 10 - 12 lbs since his surgery and I would say he is at his ideal weight .. has a waist, can see / feel his ribs .. he is muscular, but maybe she thinks he should weight less since he is now an amputee? I guess he could lose a few more lbs, but then he'd be on the very lean side of the scale.

I wish there was a way I could get an email to check back for posts regarding Mali ... I'll have to do something so I get an automated email telling me to check the forums.

Thank you all again so much for the information and caring about Mali!!!

Christine

Livermore CA
Member Since:
24 January 2009
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5 January 2010 - 10:22 pm
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Christine--Thank you for posting.  We love to hear how our buddies are doing and we're always here to give you help or support or congratulations or...anything. This is a great community.  I'm glad to hear Mali is feeling better.  Cemil's limit at that stage was about three houses down the block too.  Then he wanted to lie down and rest for awhile before hopping back home.  Now, he goes farther, especially when he's off-leash.  Keep the updates coming!

Mary and Cemil

Cemil and mom Mary, Mujde and Radzi….appreciating and enjoying Today

Cemil's blog

On The Road


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5 January 2010 - 10:27 pm
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chrisk101 said:

...maybe she thinks he should weight less since he is now an amputee?

I wish there was a way I could get an email to check back for posts regarding Mali...


It is definitely important to keep tripawds on the trim side, especially giant breed dogs. While a body mass index of three is ideal for most dogs, 2.5 is better for tripawds. Just check out this video with advice from Dr. Witzius (aka: tazziedog) about keeping amputee dogs trim.

FYI: If you subscribe to a topic you will receive email notification every time a new reply is posted. You will find the Subscribe button at the bottom of every topic page. And your Subscribed button at top will provide direct access to all your topic subscriptions. A red number next to the Subscribed button indicates unread messages.

Thanks for the update, I was glad to see your reply posted.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
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5 January 2010 - 10:41 pm
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Christine,

So very glad that Mali appears to be doing better.  As I said in my first post, I only have an experience base of one, Cherry.  You can also tell from all the comments above, that each dog can respond to the chemotherapy in dramatically different fashion.  The best advice will always be to take extremely detailed notes on your observations and then contact professionals that you trust with this information.  The more you can do a data dump on the professionals the better the diagnosis.

Sending pawsitive thoughts,

Spirit Cherry's Dad

Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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5 January 2010 - 10:49 pm
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Hi Mary,

Some folks on the bone cancer dog list group said I needed to keep Mali resting and that I'm letting him do to much. They don't have Anatolians so they don't understand how important it is to the dog to be able to check things out. Believe me, Mali sleeps and rests probably 20 + hours a day. But he also wants to make his rounds and knows his limitations.

Tomorrow he has an appt for a progress check with his surgeon. Mali's incision site looks great. Just a little bit of fluid under the skin, but everything looks good. The surgeon might take an xray tomorrow .. don't know for sure though.

I'll update after the visit, but I think he'll say Mali is okay from the surgery. I don't know how long he'll want to keep checking him after amputation surgery. For Gabby's TPLO .. he only needed two follow ups for each one .. plus I can always bring her in if I think there is a problem or she's limping on the hind legs.

Christine

Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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5 January 2010 - 11:14 pm
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Hi Spirit Cherry's Dad,

Yes, I am keeping notes and that is what I do when speaking to the vets about Mali. A brain dump of everything I have been observing .. no matter how small or insignificant it might seem. If it is different then what he did prior to surgery, it is noted.

I did tell the oncologist to give Mali an injection of cerenia prior to his chemo treatment, but they gave him Zofran instead. On the itemized bill, it was listed under its generic name and I didn't know what it was, so I looked it up. I wasn't happy with that as I specifically wanted cerenia or I would not of asked for it. It will be remedied for his next treatment. Plus the oncologist nurse seemed suprised that I wanted it, as she said, we don't even know how Mali will react to the treatment. Yeah, true, but I know my dog is sensitive and others who gone through this said its really important that he get a shot of cerenia prior to his treatment, so I pushed for the med and they gave him Zofran. I guess I should be happy that they gave him a shot of some anti nausea medication, but it wasn't what I asked for .. My regular vet and the oncologist work well together and my regular vet knows me well and I'll tell her to tell the onc to do what I ask for unless she can tell me why something else might be better for Mali.

It can get frustrating at times.

Thank you for the pawsitive thoughts!

Take care,

Christine

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
Member Since:
28 November 2008
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6 January 2010 - 3:00 am
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Christine, so glad to see a positive update.  Trouble sounds a lot like Mali.  She had to check her territory as well.  It took us some time to build up to a parameter check, but I just let her rest when she needed.  The first time I walked her up to my mom's (3 houses up the street) Bob had to come get us in the car, she was too tired to go back home!

Unfortunately, they don't understand they have the same distance to cover going home.  She would always hop til she was tired and then just lay down and rest, regardless of what I needed to doWinker  Lots and lots of good thoughts for a speedy recovery!

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

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20 May 2009
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6 January 2010 - 10:46 am
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Christene,

It sounds like Mali is doing good.  It does take time to build up his strength again so I wouldn't worry about how little he can do now. It will increase as he gets used to being a tripawd and builds the stamina. 

I would be mad at the oncologist, too.  If she wasn't going to give you what you asked for she should have told you why. 

I will be looking forward to hearing more about Mali's journey.

Debra & Angel Emily

Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.

Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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6 January 2010 - 4:57 pm
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Hi,

Today Mali saw his surgeon for his second follow-up visit. The surgeon was extremely happy with Malachi's progress and said he didn't need a 3rd visit.. Just to keep doing what I have been doing as he's doing well and looks good.

I must say that Mali's surgeon is very good, one of the best actually. After his surgery and they took the body wrap bandage off on Monday morning - 3rd day post op - there was only one long incision right where Mali's armpit used to be. No bruising that I could see .. the incision was dry and nicely stitched. I remember looking at some of the photo's of the dog's just a few days after their surgeries, and some had awful bruising and big X type incisions, etc. So when I saw how well Mali looked when the bandage came of, I was delighted. I had prepared myself that his surgical site would look something like the photo's I saw and when it didn't I was so happy that I hugged the dr. 🙂

On Mali's first follow up visit, there was some fluid around the site and I joked he's on his way to an A cup implant, but it was drained and then a sterile gauze bandage applied with compression wrap, but the fluid was clear and no sign of infection. The surgeon's assistant vet said that it was just fluid from muscle use and nothing to worry about and that I could take the wrap off Sunday or Monday. (It came off Sunday as it was pretty loose and no longer functioned as a compression wrap. Plus the gauze was dry.)

I called Mali's oncologist today and wanted more Cerenia for Mali. He is fine today. He had his dr. appt this morning. He had some yogart for breakfast and his cerenia meds afterwards, then he slept soundly until 4:30 at which time he went out to potty and sat outside for about 1 hr. He had 2 raw chicken legs while sitting outside. (I gave him 3, but he only ate 2.) He drank some water, pee'd and came back in. He went into the guest bedroom, which has a 72" x 54" dog bed on the floor, 8" mem foam and a plush shepra cover, to rest on. Later, he'll get some baked chicken and kibble for his dinner .. around 8 - 9 pm. No signs of being sick .. so I hope he doesn't get sick, but today is day 3 after his chemo treatment .. I want the cerenia on hand in case he needs it. Tomorrow is his last dose from the package the oncologist gave me and I don't want to be out of it over the weekend if he needs. (His surgeon said if I need meds for him and can't get it from his oncologist immediately, to just call him and he'll have it available asap - even on the weekend. Plus, he wants me to let him know how he does with his rehab and chemo .. basically to stay in touch with him on Mali's progress. He did say he usually doesn't get attached to his patients, but thinks Mali is just a great dog. He did three surgeries on my other ASD - Gabby and didn't ask to be updated on her after she was discharged.)

I hope Mali stays well and doesn't tank on day 5 .. I still feel like I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on when he'll feel the effects of the chemo reaching the bone marrow. Ugh. I keep checking on him, taking his temp. twice a day (I'm sure Mali has had enough of that), checking his respiration rate & pulse and marking it all down.

I ordered him supplements - artemisine, myCommunity from Fungi Perfect - just like K9 Immunity and 4life's transfer factor plus, fish oil/DHA and Co-Q10. When can I start to give him the supplements? I didn't want to give him anything pre chemo or immediately post chemo as I wanted to see how he'd do from the chemo and not wonder if its the supplements making him ill. Should I wait till day 8 post chemo?

Thanks.

Christine

PS. Mali is not taking his tramadol or gabapentin now. He does not appear to have pain and seems pretty comfortable without them, so I stopped giving them to him.

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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28 November 2008
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6 January 2010 - 5:21 pm
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Keep those positive updates coming.  Mali is doing quite well.  These guys win the hearts of the veterinary hospitals, it's just part of their dynamic personalities.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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6 January 2010 - 7:20 pm
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Hi Mali

Glad you are doing so well. So when was your amputation? And when did you start chemo? I can't figure out if you started them the same time or at different times.

For most dogs, Carboplatin has very few side effects. I believe the blood counts tend to be at their lowest about 14 days post chemo (vs. adriamycin which lower them at 5 to 7 days). Nausea tends to be pretty minimal (my oncologist would not use Cerenia for Carbo although I insisted on taking some home because of the problems with Adriamycin, but we did not need it). Obviously you did have some trouble right away with Mali and Carbo, but I wouldn't expect to see more problems with it. The main thing I have noticed on this website is that some dogs had to delay their next chemo because their blood counts weren't high enough. That is, they hit a low around day 14-18 and aren't back up by day 21. I think that was true for Emily and Oslo (might be talking through my muzzle on this one).

Tazzie's Susan

Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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6 January 2010 - 7:38 pm
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Hi Susan,

Mali had his amp surgery on 12/18 and his first chemo was 1/4.

I remember the first follow up and I was slightly teary eyed after just sitting with Mali in the exam room. Not because of his amputation, but just his OS situation. The dr. came in while I was slightly crying and asked me what was wrong and if I was upset that he was missing his leg. No, his leg is not who Malachi is at all. I explained I was just upset/sad that he could no longer do things that were completely effortless for him pre amp. I don't care about his missing leg. When I went to get him the next day after the surgery, I didn't even notice that it was .. I did, but didn't care .. I was just happy to have him with me. It is just hard to see him get tired so easy (not as much as initially after the amp). Each day he does better, but its still difficult.

Christine

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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6 January 2010 - 8:04 pm
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Hi Christine

I know what you mean, but you are still in really really early days. My Tazzie mostly lay around like a rug, no, more like dry cement at that stage. By week 6 or 8 he was happier than ever and I saw many crazy behaviours I never thought I'd see again. Things remained good even while his weird subcutaneous met kept growing (and growing. . .). He could not do a 10 km trek, but we still walked a few km and then played with the dogs that passed by us. Tazzie really loved attention from people and that was one of his main sources of happiness the last few months. He'd go outside and look around thinking - where are people? I want people! He would not budge until he saw a person he could hop over to ask for pets, or a dog with whom to play.

Chemo did give him some days on which he was somewhat lethargic (not the Carbo, but the Adriamycin - I don't remember any issues with Carbo, well, other than his kidney values rising which is not a good one to have! - but he had a kidney history so don't worry).

As for supplements, it is best to start one at a time and at low doses so you can see how he does. Off hand, the C0Q10 and fish oil should be pretty harmless, however, my Tazzie definitely got runny poo with most brands of fish oil (no one else has reported this), so start with one pill per day and see how it goes. But if you give all the pills and he has a problem, you won't know what causes the problems. Maybe introduce a new type of pill, or increase the dose of a current pill, every few days. OR maybe someone else on this site has a better recommendation.

You mention "artemisine". Is that "artemisinin "? IF you are using that, there ARE some necessary precautions. I also suggest you let your vet or oncologist know which supplements you are using. I wrote them and gave the list to my vet and asked her opinion as to whether they were okay.

Montréal , Canada
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31 July 2009
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6 January 2010 - 8:06 pm
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Hang on Christine. Mali should soon get stronger.   Do not forget that his movements may have seemed effortless before amputation, but they were painful too.  (dogs just don't show how painful a bone tumor is )

Big hugs

Suzanne and Oslo

P.S.  Tazzie's Susan, you are right about Oslo's chemo delays.  His blood counts are never back to normal after 21 days.  On his 4th carbo, he hit a low around day 18.

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