Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Texas is a 10 yr old beagle and he has been diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in Feb this year. He had his ammputaion done on his left hind then and has since compeleted 6 rounds of carboplatin and dorxy. He has been coping well, no post amp probs with the exception of the last chemo session that left him with rounds of vomitting.
2 days ago, we brought him back to the vet as his legs were swollen - and found out that the cells has spreaded to the lungs, in total i could see approx 15 growth of appox 1.5cm according to the vets. It is definately the worse news to hear since he has been coping so well thus far and seems to me chemo has failed..
I am not contemplating if i should put him on metronomic treatment ( in fact i learnt about this from Tripawds) - which is very common for you guys in america but not so here in Singapore. Could you provide me me advice as to if i should? What are the side effects and if it is recommended.
Much appreciated to hear from anyone.
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I am sorry to hear about the cancer spreading in your beagle. I have a great love of beagles as our last dog was a beagle.
I am not really sure what to tell you but wanted to at least offer some support. Our mixed breed dog, Abby is only two. She had her amp back in October and also did six rounds of carbo which she also handled well. She has had one very small met in her lungs so we started the metronomic protocol right after finishing the carbo. At first she was on both cytoxan and Palladia, but we had to stop the Palladia due to stomach issues. She is still on Cytoxan, even though her one met has now multiplied into two mets. So... the metronomic may have slowed things down, but it is not completely stopping the mets.
Abby also started Artemisinin , an herb, about 7 weeks ago. Too soon to know if it is really helping as we have not done a new Xray, but it might be worth doing some research on that.
I don't know if any of that helps, but I wish you all the best with your sweet beagle. please give him some ear rubs from me.
Jackie, Abby's mom
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
Hi Texas,
We are so sorry that those nasty lung mets have appeared. It is the saddest news to hear after trying to fight the cancer. But keep in mind that all dogs are different, and the mets may stabilize, you never know. But I will also be honest and say that I'm not sure how successful metronomics will be when there are multiple lung mets. Usually we've seen it hold back the mets when there are just one or two. I'm sorry to tell you that. Keep in mind I'm not a vet, just sharing what I've seen here.
Metronomics is something we hadn't heard of until I got lung mets. Did you see these links?
"Metronomic Protocol, A Primer for Pawrents"
I hope these help with the information, you may find that vets over in Singapore haven't heard of it yet. Good luck, please let us know how it goes OK? And remember, it's all about giving the best quality of life you can.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Thank You Jerry and Abby's Mum for the kind advices and replies.
Yes metronomic is not common here in Singapore but thankfully Texas does have a very caring vet who has managed to get hold of the drugs here if i should decide to proceed with the treatment.
i am still very much undecided - it is a tough call, esp since texas didnt cope well with the last chemo but yet if i decide not to do it, i feel like i have given up and would regret in the future for not giving it a shot.
How did your dogs react to the treatment, are the side effects awful and are the drugs difficult to administer?
your advice is greatly appreciated to help me out in this difficult decision process..
Thanks!
OH NO!!!
hey thr, I think we met at Animal clinic a month or more back when u had got him for his 2nd round of chemo with Dr jeremy n i was with my Gsd who had his leg amputated. i remember u mentioned he was doing grt n taking chemo well and he looked perfect to me n how much hope i had for my dog after seeing texas thriving so well. pardon me if i m mistaken.
n Jerry is right, dont get surprised if the vets havent heard about this protocol or if heard they may not b practicing...unfortunately, singapore veterinary science is way behind. But good u have come to the right place, read here as much possible n u can talk to ur vet about d possibilities.. I m sorry, i dont have any advice on this. but i understnd ur plight very well. Texas will be in my prayers .. my love to tht sweet little dog...
As for the drugs themselves, they are quite easy to administer. It is just a pill that you can give the dog. Abby is still on the Cytoxan and seems to have no side effects with it. She also takes a diuretic with it (lasix I think it is called, I can check the exact spelling if you need me to), so that makes her have to go out and pee somewhat frequently.
The Palladia was hard on her stomach, she had diarrhea from it off and on, and eventually it was coming back too often so we had to stop it.
As I said, Abby is still on the Cytoxan and she is doing great... Good appetite and great energy. You would not know she was a sick dog to see her. Of course, she is only two so still pretty much a pup.
I hope you find something that will work for your sweet beagle.
Jackie, Abby's mom
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
My dog was sick after his third round of regular chemo and is now on metronomics with no issues at all. But he had a clear chest x-ray before we started this. He's on cytoxan + Rimadyl + fish oil. We considered palladia but rejected it because of the potential side effects; we felt like Tate had been through the wringer and we just wanted him to have some normalcy, not more side effects. The onc told us it's not a bad idea to keep palladia in reserve in the event of lung mets. But he also said lung mets are extremely difficult to treat - the metastasized cancer cells are the ones that were resilient enough to survive the first blast of chemo and they are tough little buggers to kill. So I don't know what I would do in your shoes, only you can decide that. I'm sorry to be blunt with you but I really appreciate people being straight with me here on this website - these are difficult decisions and you deserve honest answers to your questions.
While you are deciding, just love and hug little Texas, your little boy. Beagles just have the sweetest faces!
BTW, I visited Singapore a couple years ago and just loved it. What a fabulous place you live in. Although I believed the taxi driver when he told me tigers swim over to Singapore from Malaysia...my colleagues all had a good laugh over that. Silly American.
http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.
Hi Texas! We have a very similar situation with our Sam. Sam had 6 rounds of carboplatin that he did not tolerate well. He had a lung scan toward the end of his treatments (at round 5) and was doing fantastic w/ no spots and then out of the blue, six weeks later following round 6 he had more mets than we could count. We decided to start him on metronomics - we were aware given the ferocity with which the mets appeared that it would not stop what was going on but we just wanted to slow it down so we could keep him comfortable. We put him on cytoxin instead of Palladia - we didn't want any side issues. I'm happy to say he's tolerated metronomics well - no issues whatsoever. We have him on Cytoxan, Piroxicam, doxycycline, fish oil and k9 immunity. He just completed 4 weeks and had a set of x-rays yesterday. It's worked a bit and has slowed the progression which was music to our ears. The mets less than doubled....which is still a whole lot of mets, but not at the pace of the prior 6 weeks. He's happy, comfortable and exhibiting no symptoms. Our oncologist said the meds will continue to kick in and could even stop the growth over the next 4 weeks....fingers crossed. We had a long discussion again about palladia and again decided against it....Sam has been through so much we just want to stick to what he can tolerate. I know it's stressful so good luck. The very outer bands of Irene have just reached us and Sam is losing his mind already.....going to be a long night here!
Hi Roops, yes i am texas mummy which you met at Animal Clinic. How is your GSD coping? Hope he is way better and you are getting much medical and emotional support from the the people at animal clinic. Dr Jem is amazing so if you need any help you can speak to him...
In any case, texas is coping well - he is eating well, bouncing about and soon to take his sunday walks in an hours time...just that we receievd the unexpected news of the lung mets on Wednesday which is a horrific shock to us as you mentioned he doesnt even look unwell in any way...:(
thank you to Abby, Sam Sam and Tate for your kind replies. Can i ask what is palladia? I assume it is a kinda drug which is very good for controlling the cells but yet there are very bad side effects since all 3 of you said so? The treatment process which the doc is planning i guess its for cytoxan and presidone and pain killers..i havent heard of palladia - then again vet science in Singapore aint as advance as you guys in the states.
Samsam's mon - if i may ask how many lungs mets does ur pup have?
I am quite frankly gravitating to using metronomics for tex - whilst i am aware every dog reacts differently to treatments but i like to take comfort in the fact that all your pups coped very well.
You're right, palladia is another chemotherapy drug. I'd say the severity of side effects depends on the dog - I just know I did a search here on it and saw that a lot of dogs didn't do well on it. At that time, we were just emerging from the "fog of war" as it were and just weren't in the mood for kicking the crap out of our dog anymore.
Prednisone is a steriod and that can have some side effects too. It's a human drug, my friend was on it and her face puffed up but I suppose Texas won't care too much if his face puffs up. Maybe someone here will pipe up and let you know how their dog did on it.
Keep in mind, there's nothing that says you have to continue whatever course of action you choose. If Texas has side effects, you can always stop. Because if he's not having fun then there's not much point.
Good luck! Let us know how things are going!
http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.
Sam has 25+ mets at this point. While scary, like Texas, he has no symptoms. He has a very occasional cough but our oncologist thinks one of the tumors may be close to his windpipe so when he's excited, it just gets a little irritated. Our diagnosis of mets came out of the blue too....we were shocked. We decided stressing about it didn't do Sam any good so we just buckled down to figure out how to keep him comfortable. The metronomic seems to have worked for the moment. Our oncologist expected the mets to more than double by our appointment on Friday given it's previous aggressiveness...it didn't so that was good news to us. We take the wins when we can get them and we've celebrated all weekend!
Tate's mom is right, if you put Texas on something that has side effects, you can pull him right off. Sam didn't tolerate his chemo well so we were ready to stop the metronomic immediately if he didn't tolerate it. He's been fine so we're going to continue.
Good luck and look forward to hear what you decide!
SamSamsmom, glad to hear that your pup is coping so well from the treatment and it too gives me a ray of light.
Yes Texas does only cough when he is excited like when we are home or during meal times - looks like he has the same symptoms as ur pup.
yup i am aware that if the drugs gives texas a very bad effect, i will take him off immediately. I will be out of the country for the next few days and i guess when i am back i will visit the vet and decide on the next course of action.
Can i ask also, do we need to take special care when administering this drug? The vet says it is a rather "dangerous" drugs as it affect human's immunity too.
Thanks!
Eunice
You just have to handle the chemo pills with gloves. Written instructions were to seal up the waste, gloves and container, in a plastic bag and return it to the vet but they told us just to dispose of it in our regular trash.
Have safe trip!
http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.
texas said:
...do we need to take special care when administering this drug?
We used rubber gloves when handling the Cytoxan at the suggestion of Jerry's vet. Others have recommended keeping children and other dogs away from areas where dogs on metronomics eliminate. Most important, however, is to give it in the morning with food, provide lots of water and potty breaks throughout the day to ensure the drug does not build up in the kidneys where it can become toxic. But we never had any problems during Jerry's Metronomic Therapy.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
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