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Blitz's Story
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19 June 2018 - 3:42 am
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Hi Dobemom, yes it is Carol and Blitz. Thanks for responding, and once again Blitz’s experience is a mirror image of what you describe for Nitro. Blitz was on the Phentanyl as well and did not respond well in the hospital or out. Crying, fearful, uncomfortable etc…. They could not even get him up in the ICU so they used a urinary cath to keep him dry. Due to his severe sensitivity to the drug, they questioned how well he would do on the patch at home, but he came home with it anyway, and the next day we had to remove it. The first night home he cried all night. The vet said he had to get up, but he would screech if we tried to move him. It took some time for the Phentanyl to wear off but he did improve. We were able to get him up for the first time and out to pee, thank heaven.

But even with the patch gone, and days later he is still quite depressed. Has not interest in his toys which he has always loved. If it were not for how much he loves to eat, and the fact he has to relieve himself I swear he would not get up at all. Hard to know if it is pain or the effects of the Gabapentin. He is sooooo sensitive to these drugs. I did call the vet again yesterday. She is not so sure it is the Gabapentin causing the side effect “but could be”. And she does not think he is in a lot of pain anymore either. She called it soft tissue pain and that once his staples are out in 5 days most dogs don’t need pain medication anymore. Not so sure I agree but so she says

Blitz is taking 300mg Gabapentin (I understand this to be a very big dose), and 75mg Carprofen q 12 hrs. With this dose the vet does not think he should be in any pain. She suggested maybe cutting the Gabapentin down to q 24 hours to see if the depression subsides and I could add Tramadol if needed. Ugh!!! So last night he got his dose at 4pm along with just a small 50mg tramadol and the Carprofen. He won’t get Gabapentin again until tonight, so only once a day now. This morning he go up to eat and went back to bed. I tried to encourage him to go out but it is still early so I will give him some time. I am hoping cutting down on the Gabapentin will help, and that as the day progresses he is more awake.

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19 June 2018 - 7:34 am
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I am so sorry that you and Blitz have had such a struggle. Like people, not all dogs will respond the same to medications and surgery.

My two Tripawds were very different. Maddie made me question whether I had done the right thing to opt for amputation rather than euthanasia at 15.5 yrs of age.  She didn’t poop for days, wasn’t  comfortable and had real problems with mobility. The first 2-3 weeks were pretty rough. Throughout the rest of her life, I used a sling most of the time to help her with mobility. She still wanted to go for walks so I bought a large dog stroller .  She would  hop out when she wanted to walk and when she looked tired, I would make her get back in the stroller. One day I stopped to pick up poop,  looked around and didn’t see her anywhere.   She had hopped almost a block down the street! 

Gabapentin can cause drowsiness.  Rather than not giving the gabapentin at all or skipping doses, please talk to your vet .  There is a range of dose per weight, reducing the amount may be more helpful than skipping a dose. Better to keep a continuous level than having the peaks and valleys of skipping a dose. Just like people, dogs can respond differently to narcotics.  it may be the combination of pain meds that is causing some of the side effects you see. Again, let your vet be your guide  in this.  My experience bears out the research on tramadol. I didn’t find giving or holding made a difference. 

My vet told me it could be 5 days before my dog pooped.  That being said,  I did give Maddie a supplement  to help her when she did poop, esp, because she was older and had arthritis. Felt like she needed  all the help she could get. I would approve with your vet first.  

https://www.holisticpetinfo.com/Natural-Moves-by-PetAlive.html

Because of her age, 15.5 yrs old, we did not opt for chemotherapy. We did give IV Pamidronate  for a while. She didn’t have any side effects.  

Spirit is a complete 360*.  She was mobile from postop day one. 8.5 yrs old and in great shape because of regular physical activity.   She did receive  chemo,  carboplatin, a few weeks ago and had no side effects that I could detect. Last week she received IV zoledronate (same type of drug as pamidronate ) and was achy and sore for days .

Trust yourself in making the decisions for your dog.  Everyone will have an opinion and experiences will vary. Look into your heart. You know your situation and your dog best.  Sending you strength and peace.

Green Bay, WI
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19 June 2018 - 9:24 am
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Hi Carol – I believe Nitro was also on 300 mg of Gaba, (he actually was on this for 2 weeks before the amp too) and he stayed on it for almost a month afterwards; for tramadol, he was on 1-2 (100mg) every 6-8 hours. I’m quite sure we continued this for at least 2 weeks, maybe decreasing the amount towards the end.

I think it is not unreasonable for them to be on these meds at least until the staples/stitches come out. This is MAJOR SURGERY! I think a person would still be in pain at this point, so why would we expect our dogs to be any different. I respectfully disagree with your vet on this point.

Also, it is really early in Blitz’s recovery, most dogs start to regain their “sparkle” at about the 2 week mark. When was his surgery again? So really, its best they are not active and just mostly rest for the first couple weeks. He may seem “depressed”, but I’ve been told here many times that dogs don’t really feel depression like humans – he isn’t depressed that he now has 3 legs for example. His body is just recovering, and he has meds in his system. (which he DOES need).

Again, I’m here if you need to talk

Paula and Warrior Angel Nitro

p.s. Nitro was on Gaba for the last year of his life to help with mobility issues, and my 14 year old Westie takes it (and has for over a year) twice a day to help with his arthritis. Don’t be afraid to give this to Blitz – provided he doesn’t have an issue with it. And there really is a large range of dosage with it

Nitro 11 1/2  yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms.  Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"

http://nitro.tr.....27_2_1.jpg

"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior

Virginia
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19 June 2018 - 10:26 am
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Good inoit from Carrie and Paula!

This IS MAJOR  SURGERY AND IT HURTS!!  And this is VERY, VERY EARLY IN RECOVERY!  Humans would still be in the hospital!

It is really good, this early on, that all Vlitz wants to do is rest!!   That’s  all he shoild be doing at this point.  He needs to heal his body  from a very invasive surgery and sace all his energy for healing.

Blitz is NOT on a huge dose of meds at all.  You have lots of leeway.  It is sooooo important to keep the pain meds consistent.  Once the pain gets a head start, it’s really hard to get it baxk under control.  Even IF….BIG IF….the Gaba caused some   lethargy, it’s  better than being in pain!

Blitz is smart!  He knows he needs rest right now😎

It’s  not “depression ” you are seeing.  You are seeing a dog trying to recover  from a PAINFUL MAJOR SURGERY WHILE ADJISTING TO THREE LEGS!  He will get all his sparkle  back, but you must be patient  (we all know how hard that is!) and give him time to recover.

He is eating, drinking pooping and can be mobile when necessary.  He’s  EXACTLY  where he should be this early in…maybe even ahead of the curve!

We are not Vets  and not giving  Vet advice.  But PLEASE talk to the Bet avout continuing  the Gaba twice a day, along with the Tramadol.  These two drugs work well together  and handle different  aspects of the pain involved.   Yoi can spread them out and give them an hour or so apart.  But again, speak with your Vet

Hang in there!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS. My Happy Hannah was on pain meds for three weeks (reducing  in third week).  The Gaba was twice a day and the Tram two to three times a day for the first two weeks.

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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24 June 2018 - 5:33 pm
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Blitz-postop day 13.  One would think at this point Blitz would be more comfortable. In some respects things have gotten better but in many others things are worse. I believe the dog is majorly traumatized, and we made the wrong decision to amputate his leg. The poor dog is beside himself.  2 nights ago was worse than our first night home. He acted like he was overdosed on his meds. Crying, tongue hanging out, panting, eyes glazed over. I thought we were going to lose him, but we made it through the night. After that we decided to back off on the pain meds. No more Tramadol, and reduce the frequency of the Gabapentin. So now he is getting the Carprophen q12 and Gabapentin 300 q24 instead of q12. I don’t know what else to do. And I give up calling the vet. They probably think I am psychotic at this point. Last night the dog was so restless my husband got no sleep at all. He paces, and paces. Up and down, can’t get comfortable. And he does weird things like head for the basement stairs. Hes scares us to death. He is eating, and drinking, pee and poop are also good. His surgical site looks fine adn healing well. Staples come out this Tuesday. Most of the day is ok, but at night he is just out of it. Hes seems better on his feet than when trying to rest. He insist on being in the most uncomfortable places (his old recliner or the couch) to sleep and cries. His legs seem to get caught up under him and he just can’t get comfortable. He is after his sutures constantly. We have a tshirt on him but he laps it till it is so wet it needs changing. He is sooo unhappy. I am at a loss. And tonight he growled at me for the first time while trying to comfort him. I am certain at this point I have ruined this dogs life. 2 weeks later and my poor dog is just miserable. Sorry, I know I am venting but I am beside myself. 

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24 June 2018 - 6:00 pm
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When are sutures coming out? They should be ready now. 

I’m so sorry you are going through this. You’re not crazy, something definitely does not sound right. I wish i could tell you what that something is. 

If you do not feel comfortable with your doctor can you please see if there is somebody else that could see him?

I do not know what the repercussions are off stopping gabapentin quickly, but i have heard from many that they need to be weaned off so please be careful, ok?

I wish i could help more but i honestly don’t think you made a mistake and it really sounds like something is going on. I don’t know if one of these meds is messing with him or if it’s something else but this just doesn’t sound right.

Please stay in touch and let us know how things move forward. Keeping you in my thoughts and hoping that this all passes quickly so you can get your boy back.

Big hugs and healing wishes

Jackie and Huck ❤️

Hugs,

Jackie, David, Mitchell, Andy Oscar, and the coolest feral tripawd kitty Huckleberry

http://paws120......pawds.com/

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24 June 2018 - 6:05 pm
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Oh sweetie I am so sorry you are feeling that way …

It is really very, very hard to see our babies totally transformed and miserable but sadly medication side effects are a real bummer.

I do believe despite of it, they stil have to have medication because we’re talking of major surgery here so it is bound to take some time for everything to heal properly. 

No, you have NOT ruined your dog’s life, thing is he is stil recovering hence not himself fully.

Please, reconsider calling the vet and tell him how he is so he can advise you on what to do.

Self medicating and cutting short or cutting down medicine without vet advise could be potentially damaging or even dangerous, in my unprofessional humble opinion. 

And if your vet thinks you are psychotic … change vets asap.

You have every right to be informed and to reach out for professional advise and help, any day of the week and any hour of the day. 

Pacing non stop, crying, panting seem like signs of pain.

And growling is a clear sign of pain, sweetie, my Eurydice also growled at me for that one and only time ever and this was because I moved her and surely hurt her by doing so. 

You sound totally exhausted which does not help … please get professional help for him so you can both have a break and rest … 

Sending you much love and cuddles 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

Virginia
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24 June 2018 - 8:27 pm
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You vent and scream and cry and rage with us all you want!!  We get it!!!  And if you’re  like the rest of us, as Jackie said, you are exhausted…mentally  and physically!  

As Teresa basically said, messing around with the pain meds can interfere with managing  the pain on a consistent  basis. His system  is sort of up and down like a yo-yo right now.  The pain has a chance to wind up and never fully winds back down before the meds are “adjusted” again.

Giving the right meds at the right consistency  for several days in a row could make a world of difference. 

Certainly  some of  the “symptoms ” you described  the other night could still  be that he’s  one of those who just can’t  handle Tramadol.  YOUR VET NEEDS TO PRESCRIBE AN ALTERNATIVE. if that’s  the case.

He is, however, also showing  pain symptoms…..trying to hide in the basement…..  growling, (and I certainly  the growl  was upsetting)…..constantly  going after the incision…..can’t  get comfortable, etc

Just throwing  this out there.  One thing that we have seen here is some of the  staples /stitches being in a place that they are poking or pulling in a way with certain  movements that cause extreme pain.  That could explain a lot of what’s  going on.  Any “wrong” movement  causes the staples to stick him. 

Another possibility  is that the nerves are a bit jumbled right now and sometimes  need a Surgeon’s intervention.   Doubt  this is the case as it’s  usually  a much more severe  reaction.  Fixable if it,is the case though.

I know it’s  hard to celebrate  that Blitz is eating okay, but that IS a good sign!

Now, friend to friend.  You’re stuck with us now…..we are all your new BFFs! No more beating  up on oir friend!!!❤   You have NOT ruined  your dog’s life!!!    It took me three weeks before I said I did this FOR my Happy Hannah and not TO her!!   Something  is hurting him and it hasn’t  veen properly  addressed. 

You jave paidnyour Vet big bucks  and if he is being  dismissive  and not giving  you a good plan forward, fire him!!!  Get another opinion!!   You are NOT psychotic!  You ARE concerned  about Blitz and are trying to advocate  for him!!   

Often  dogs do seem to turn a corner after the stitches are out.  Not always, but it could be the case with Blitz if, somehow  the stitches  are a problem.

Hang in there!  Eat tons of junk food and call that Vet and tell him you want a proper pain management  plan!  It doesn’t  have to include  Tramadol, but it needs tombe drugsmthat compliment  each other and work in harmony  with his system.  You’re  steongwr than you think!  We see your strength  and courage…..and deep love for Blitz!

Extra hugs❤

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Livermore, CA
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24 June 2018 - 8:52 pm
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A couple of Maggie stories-

TriPug Maggie did not do at all well on tramadol- actually after her amp she was OK on it but later in life she did not tolerate it at all.  She got a dose once and did not sleep for 12 hours!  She was agitated and acted like something was following her around.  She would sit in the middle of the living room and look around panicked. She would go outside and sit on the deck and do the same thing.  In- out- in – out, she was inconsolable. 

As far as her recovery- she did OK physically but was a grumpy Pug for 6 WEEKS following surgery!  We went through recovery before Tripawds was here so we went it alone.  I just knew I had made a terrible mistake by choosing surgery.  I remember one night sitting out on the back deck with her- she looked so miserable.  Maggie had always been a stubborn Pug- she hated any change to her routine.  In hindsight it made sense that she took so long to get used to her new normal. 

Is Blitz really sensitive to change?  Sounds like he may be having reaction to the tramadol.  Don’t give up on your boy, keep working with your vet on balancing the meds.  Don’t worry about what they think of you- you are Biltz’s advocate and that is what is important. 

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

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25 June 2018 - 3:57 am
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Amen to all of the above! So you see? You are not crazed.. not psychotic.. and Blitz has something going on. Whether it is break through pain, which it just really seems more than that.. just my opinion. Or maybe he and Tramadol are just not working well together, SOMETHING has him wired for sound and he seems uncomfortable. 

Just like with people, and I have lived this myself when I had a surgery, once the pain breaks through from meds it can be very hard to manage. I totally get what you feel with your doctor, but I have to tell you.. when I had to go back and advocate for Huckleberry’s pain I was a bitch. And I did not care. And after I got what I needed from them I dropped them like a hot potato and found another vet. Nobody is going to tell me after 3 days post op that pain meds are not necessary, and no I am not a drug seeker (that is what they made me feel like)  but I WAS like a hound dog because I kept running out of meds every couple of days and got to see my little guy drop and deal with phantom pain .. it was no fun. 

Please hang in there, please lean on us, and please let us know how you make out. Keeping you in our thoughts, and sending huge hugs your way. You will get through this.

xoxoxoxo

Hugs,

Jackie, David, Mitchell, Andy Oscar, and the coolest feral tripawd kitty Huckleberry

http://paws120......pawds.com/

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25 June 2018 - 6:27 am
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Thanks once again to all of you. Blitz had a good night. We see the vet today at 3p, hopefully staples will come out too. The problem with pain management is probably me. It is just as aweful to see pain as it is to see the side effects so trying to make it perfect was not helping Blitz. I am steady now on the Gabapentin 300 q12h, Carprofen 75mg q12h, and Tramadol 1-2 tabs q8 hours. He had one Tramdol last night and this morning 2 tabs (100mg). This seemed to do the trick. It is amazing how just 1 more Tramadol sent everything into a frenzy. It was way too much for him and I panicked. Rather than reduce the dose I stopped it all together so the pain returned. I have learned my lesson and unfortunately at Blitz’s expense. Forgive me Blitz. 

This morning he ate well, did his business and is now resting comfortably on HIS couch (LOL). Love my dog!!!

Green Bay, WI
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25 June 2018 - 9:11 am
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Oh Carol, I’m soooo happy Blitz (and probably you) had a good nite! Panicking is easy when you are sleep-deprived and sick with worry, we’ve all been there.  It sounds like you’ve figured out the correct dosage for the Tram; and like some others have said, there ARE alternative drugs out there if it proves that Blitz doesn’t handle it well. (I just don’t know what they are off the top of my head).

And never be afraid to call your vet – if they make you feel bad for being concerned and only wanting to do what’s best for Blitz, they are not worth entrusting his care to. I called the Referral Vet who did his amp 2-3 times a day while he was recovering, day or night, when I had questions or concerns. ANNNDDD you now have a new family, who is always here for you, a judgement-free zone to sound as crazy or stressed as you want.

Let us know how the vet visit goes today…paws crossed he gets those staples out.

Paula and Warrior Angel Nitro

Nitro 11 1/2  yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms.  Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"

http://nitro.tr.....27_2_1.jpg

"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior

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25 June 2018 - 9:23 am
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Oh thank goodness… I am so relieved for you!!  Hopefully you were both able to get some well needed sleep. It truly is amazing the turn around that you can see after making changes like that.  I could give you a big ole hug right now smiley

Hang in there, this does get better!! Hopefully he will be staple free this afternoon winker

Big hugs,

Jackie and Huck heart

Hugs,

Jackie, David, Mitchell, Andy Oscar, and the coolest feral tripawd kitty Huckleberry

http://paws120......pawds.com/

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25 June 2018 - 3:33 pm
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I am so pleased to hear you both had a good night sleep 💤

And Blitz is getting his staples out, that will make him more comfortable and hopefully he will get better and better and better from now on!

Hugs and cuddles 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

Virginia
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25 June 2018 - 8:06 pm
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So glad to read this update!  A good night’s sleep for you and Blitz AND couch napping too??  YAAAAAAAAY😁😁

Good for you for taking a step back and refocusing  on developing  a CONSISTENT and EFFECTIVE  pain management  plan that works for Blitz. GOOD JOB!   The  recovery process for each dog  and getting the right balance of pain meds for each dog  can vary greatly!  This is uncharted  territory for each one of us.   The Surgeons don’t  see what we go through once we get them home.  That’s  why staying  connected  here is so important the first sederal weeks.  We’ve  all panicked amd we’ve  all doubted our decisions at some point.   I know I did!!

It’s  not quite smooth sailing yet, but it should start getting  smoother and smoother  with very few big waves from now on.😎

Extra hugs to you 

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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