Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hello, my 6.5 yr old Vizsla just had his rear leg amputated and biopsy results concluded it was osteosarcoma. We have to wait until he is healed before starting chemo, however in the meantime I am wondering about the success stories few dogs have had and if it relates to the biopsy results. Cooper's results showed that 'mitosis are 2-3 in 10 hpf.' I don't know whether this is bad or worse, however I was curious if there are certain instances where it was slower spread? or whether there was a study done to compare dogs that have survived past the 12 month mark that compared their mitocic rate?
I know I will have more answers in another week but I feel I can't wait that long and searching the internet did not provide much help on how to read these reports. Any help is much appreciated.
Welcome to Tripawds, your future posts will not have to wait for approval.
I'm sorry you are dealing with OSA in your boy Cooper. How is he recovering from the surgery?
My experience is with mast cell cancer, and I know in mast cell the oncologists are looking for the mitotic index (MI) to be less than 5 which generally means the cancer is not so aggressive. I'm not sure how that exactly translates to OSA, but I do believe in general that a lower MI is a good thing.
Jackson's mom Katy wrote a guest blog about a study on 4 vs 6 rounds of chemo for OSA dogs. You can read the blog here. If read down to the bottom you will see some discussion on MI.
Try not to get to focused on stats and prognosis. No matter what the numbers we really don't know how much time we will get. My pug Maggie was given 6 to 9 months after her amp for mast cell with chemo. She lived almost 4 years and did not pass from the mast cell cancer. Not all are so lucky of course, but I did waste some time at the beginning focusing on the 6 to 9 month mark like it was set in stone.
Please tell us more about Cooper!
Karen and Spirit Maggie
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
Hi villaenr and Cooper,
So sorry you are dealing with cancer in your handsome boy Cooper. However, you have certainly come to the right place....there is a ton of experience here, and terrific support as well.
I also, like Karen, do not have experience with OSA, but there are very many here that have.....and many success stories as well. My girl had a nasty "c", hemangiosarcoma, but still outlived her 5-6 month prognosis. Like Karen said, there is no timetable for the ugly "c"......We do know, though, that once that diagnosis comes in, it is time to live everyday well, and "Be More Dog " as we like to call it. Make everyday count for your pup, whether he may live 5 weeks, or five years, because we don't know.
Keep us updated on your boy, and we are all here for you....
Bonnie & Angel Polly
Thank you both. This site has been extremely helpful after the initial shock of cooper's diagnosis. He is a week and a day out after his amputation and he is not drinking water (he has a great appetite and the vet said to put the water in his food which he does drink, but not separately). He also does really well walking but he is very tired and appears almost depressed (possibly the tramadol?) We are meeting with the chemo doctor and nutritionist next week since we do not wish to put him back on his dog food (Instinct). Since we don't know how long we have with him we want him to enjoy all of those meals!
I am so happy to hear about your dog's greatly outliving their prognosis. Stories like that bring so much hope!
I am glad Cooper seems to be doing so well after his amp, and there have been a few others here that had trouble with their pups not drinking very much or at all. There have been some suggestions in past forums about this problem, and one of the things you could try, in addition to water in his food, is getting low sodium chicken broth and adding some of that to his water. Another thing I have personally done, is getting a good quality canned dog food, and adding a good bit of water to make a kind of soup......it worked really great.
Also, I do believe Tramadol can cause all kinds of weird side effects for our fur kids......my Polly really didn't have too much trouble, but if there was one thing it did do, was made her a bit depressed as well. Once they are off it, they will feel much more like themselves.
You sound like you have Cooper's care set up well for the upcoming weeks, and try not to worry too much about the future, just take it one day at a time........and yes, let him enjoy EVERYTHING....
Thinking of you,
Bonnie & Angel Polly
Hi there! I'm sorry I'm just now catching up on your post, and am very sorry to hear you're coping with osteo. Well, ok, let me start by bringing Bart the Vizsla's story to your attention, have you seen it? Talk about defying the odds! Here's his blog too.
So to answer your question about biopsy results...I agree with Karen, try not to get too focused on prognoses, statistics and numbers. Biopsies are useful to help vets know how to treat a cancer, but in the end, remember, every dog is different and nobody's story is exactly the same. Some dogs beat cancer for a very long time even though they had no chemo (count us in with that group), while sadly some who do have chemo do not. You just have to make decisions from the heart, hope for the best and live every day to the fullest, just how Cooper wants you to. We call that "Being More Dog," cause that's how dogs (and cats!) live, in this moment. They don't worry about odds, or numbers or next year, just what's going on right here and now. Humans have so much to learn!
Meanwhile, do check out Jerry's Required Reading List and the Tripawds e-books if you haven't already, they're full of lots of tips and such. About his reluctance to drink water...have you tried adding any kind of low-sodium chicken or beef broth? Or even a splash of gatorade or tuna water? Something to jazz it up may help get him going.
And yes, pain meds like Tramadol can make dogs seem depressed, but remember, this is major surgery and they're not used to being high from the medication. Be strong, and know that this is only temporary, he'll bounce back and feel so much better soon, just wait!
Keep us posted on how things are going. We're here to help.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
It takes a huge amount of energy for a new Tripawd to get around- they are learning balance and using muscles differently. And the meds can have a sedating effect. Once he is off all the meds the spark will come back and as he gains strength he won't tire as easily. Over the long haul a rear amp generally has an easier time getting around (since dogs support 60% of their body weight on their front legs) but it seems sometimes like it takes rear amps longer to gain strength- it was that way for my little pug Maggie. Of course I have met a lot of front amp pups and most of them get around just fine!.
If he is eating, eliminating and getting around OK he is doing great!
Bonnie gave you some great ideas for spiking the water. My quad-pug Obie doesn't like water to the point that he rarely drinks out of the water bowl. We compensate by watering down at least one meal a day- it becomes more of a soup and he laps up every little bit.
Karen and Spirit Maggie
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
My Happy Hannah didn't want to drink on her own either.....for over two weeks! Eating okay, but just would not drink water by tself!
Tried so many things but nothing worked...until....I had a scoop.of ice cream on a spoon, she starts licking it, I drop iit in her bowl of water...stil l use the spoon withsome remaining ice cream on it t o guide her nose to the water....BINGO...BANGO....as long as I swirled ice cream into her water, she drank it!
Keep us posted and let us know how shee doing. Stay connected to us! We understand this j i urney...and your bond.....like no others can!
(((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))
Sally and Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Thank you all soooo much for the wonderful advice and drinking tips. Jerry, that story is just what we need to keep us positive. Although I know every dog is different I feel that most vets and most research sights dealing with this disease are so negative to the point that they bring you down. I can't tell you enough how this site has helped us (and we even just purchased a harness webmaster that I read great reviews about in here.
We will keep everyone posted on Cooper's progress and will continue following all of the other doggies here.
villaenr said
Although I know every dog is different I feel that most vets and most research sights dealing with this disease are so negative to the point that they bring you down.
And that is exactly why we started Tripawds. When Jerry got diagnosed, most of the available information was soooo depressing, it was rare to find good stories of hope like Bart's. We wanted a place where people could go and read up about how dogs really do the day after surgery, how they cope with cancer, and what it's like to be on this journey from the human's perspective. While we don't want to lead anyone to the wrong conclusions and make this journey seem like a cake walk, or that everyone beats the odds, what we want to offer is HOPE, because when you're dealing with cancer, that's what keeps you going and moving forward. I'm so glad it helped, and thanks for shopping with us, it's so appreciated!
Keep us posted, we're here for you.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi - I just wrote you back via PM, but I'll also post a little here. How's his water intake coming? I agree, Tramadol may be the culprit! Take it easy and so will he. Vizslas are tough and will bounce back!!!
Generally, publications cite a mitotic index of >=5 as a cut-off. Meaning, that above that index, things tend to be worse. So Cooper's low numbers are great! Sure, do a DANCE and celebrate! But, also know that cancer isn't fair or equal and still do awful things. We're here to support and celebrate! But, we're also here to provide real stories and some realism. As for Jackson's index of 5, I'm comforted, but still keep my feet on the ground...
HUGS!
~ Katy & Jackson
ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12. Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ! No side effects. We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments. He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors! Our love. Our funny little guy!
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