Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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We have a beautiful little Maltese/Yorkie mix, who is 5 years old. 6 weeks ago, he went for his usual grooming (haircut) and his groomer noticed Charlie had a lump (squishy, liquid feeling) on his right hind leg just above his ankle. I took Charlie in the next day to the vet. She aspirated it, saw some possible mast cells, however did not want to give me the definitive answer without trying a couple weeks of antibiotics and antihistamines, which we did. And low and behold, it went almost completely away. Well just this past Monday, I noticed his lump is back and it changes in size almost on a daily basis. I made another appointment, this time with the Vet I prefer versus the one I had the first time. He aspirated the lump as well, and noticed many mast cells, and referred me on to Surgery/Emergency vet facility, which I went the next day.
We want to save Charlie with all our might, however, we have 3 humans in our family dealing with Lyme disease, and it has become a costly expense alone with just that journey. So I asked the surgeon, if there was a way he could tell if Charlie had cancer in the rest of his body before we decide to do the amputation (amputation was a must as he is a 10 dog with barely anything to his legs) The surgeon suggested to do all the blood work, chest Xrays and aspirate the lymph node closest to his tumor as well as aspirate his liver and other pertinent areas. This way we decided, that if Charlie was so full of cancer, we would potentially bring him home and enjoy him as long as we possibly could.
Well, today I got the call from the surgeon to say there is no evidence of any cancer cells anywhere in his body other than his tumor, but he said he conferred with the oncologist and she now suggests a biopsy before the amputation. (we decided to amputate being all his tests came back good) He said this biopsy would be an additional $1200-1500 to do and that way they can grade it at 1, 2 or 3, as he said if its a 3, they would no amputate. But we also said, if Charlie was full of cancer we would take him home and enjoy him as long as we could.
I got the feeling, he knew we wanted nothing more than to keep our sweet boy alive, yet am wondering, why tack on another potential $1500.00, when the amputation will be done, and it can be graded at that time? So I scheduled the surgery for this coming Dec, 14th. In the mean time, I called my reliable vet and explained the whole scenario. He was really confused at all the expense going on and will be calling the surgeon come Monday to find out what is really going on. I told my vet that we had decided to have his leg amputated. My vet told me, he has many years experience with amputations, and he would be able to do Charlie's if we would want him to, and he would also send it in to be graded, but with all the good test results, he felt good that Charlie would potentially be a grade 1 with a clean bill of health.(although he did warn me, that this scenario is not 100% fool proof as cancer is sneaky that way) When I asked how much it would cost. He told me a price of literally 1/4th of the surgery center. Now I am more confused as ever. I trust my vet very much, yet am wondering, was I getting scammed by this emergency vet/surgery center that we were referred to? My vet too is confused, so hence the call this coming Monday.
My question(s) Has anyone ever had their pet's amputation done by their vet, and not a surgical/oncological vet? The difference in price just blows me away. Plus I already spent $1400.00 on the testing he had done. Don't get me wrong, I want to save our little guy. We love him so much and he took on the responsibility of being a "service dog" for our daughter with autism. He is an amazing resource for her when she has her "moments". My daughter with autism is taking this surgery very hard, as all of us are. We are just so afraid of losing him. My other question is...has anyone else had the "pre-testing" done prior to the surgery, had everything look good like our Charlie and go ahead with the surgery, to find that all is well? Or did you end up with a grade 2 or 3 tumor still? Sorry this is so long. I have had a very full plate with 3 Lyme members in my family, myself included, and mine is late stage, so I myself struggle health wise. Charlie is always by my side. I want nothing more than to be by his when he goes through this.
Thank you!
Charliebug
Hi folks, sorry to hear you are dealing with this and such a tough situation overall. The good news is you have some awesome vets working to find out what's going on. Between your vet and the specialists you will get some good direction to help you decide what's best for all of you.
Be sure to check out our Tripawd Talk Radio podcast about mast cell cancer, it may help clear things up as far as the disease goes:
http://download.....er-basics/
As for specialists versus family vets doing the procedure, this is often discussed here. There are pros and cons to both. Specialty vet medicine has its place in health care, and although there are many vets who can do amputations, when it comes to dealing with cancer, specialty oncology vets are received advanced training and see more cases that give more experience with it. That's why there are specialists in vet medicine just like human medicine, hence, the higher price. However you really have to do what's best for your budget and your sanity. Here are some posts that may help:
How to Choose a High Quality Vet Practice for Your Dog’s Surgery
http://tripawds.....nary-care/
I hope this helps. We have other folks here with more experience in Mast Cell Cancer than I do so stay tuned for their input too. Hang in there.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Online
Welcome to Tripawds.
The good news about mast cell tumors (MCT) is that they tend to be one of the cancers that respond well to treatment, the bad news is that it is one of the trickiest cancers. The size change, even on a daily basis, is typical of MCT with or without medications.
My pug Maggie lost her leg to a MCT, and her little sis Tani had recurring MCTs. I am speaking now from my own experiences.
The standard practice to treat MCTs is to surgically remove them with wide margins. Unfortunately when the tumor is on the lower leg, especially in a small dog, it is very difficult if not impossible to even remove the tumor and have enough healthy tissue to close the incision, let alone get good margins.
One way to break it down: do you want to do surgical removal (amputation) or do you want to do less invasive treatments (chemo, holistic, or nothing). If you want to remove the tumor then it doesn't matter what the grade is before surgery and to me a biopsy is pointless (also sometimes biopsied MCTs will not heal because the mast cells damage the skin tissue).
Also, you have some test results indicating that the cancer has not spread, that is good but not 100% certain. I thought Maggie's amp would be curative, but it was not. You can read her story and about her amp and chemo, the links are in my signature below.
Maggie far outlived her prognosis and did not pass from mast cell. Tani, Maggie's little sis had 11 or 12 cutaneous MCTs throughout her life. When she was younger I had them removed surgically, as she got older I just left them alone. Tani passed last February at almost 15 years old, not from mast cell.
One question: Did they actually do aspirations of the liver or did they do an abdominal ultrasound? I think the ultrasound is more useful because it gives you an indication is the liver and spleen are involved which is one of the places mast cell tends to met. A needle aspiration only shows you there is no cancer cells in the tiny spot the needle sampled. Something else your vet can ask the specialist on Monday.
Please send me a PM if there is anything I can help you with.
Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
Jerry gives a great explanation of cost differences between vets and specialists. Will it make a difference for your dog's amputations? My cat's leg amputation was performed by her vet. We live in a small community without specialists and he phoned a big city surgeon first to discuss the amputation (to remove the scapula or not) before he did the procedure.
It sounds like you've had a lot of tests done already. I'd also question the need for the biopsy which is likely close to the price of the amputation. My cat's tumour growth was so rapid that her leg was quickly removed and a pathology done on both the leg and lymph nodes after. We decided to fail on the side of a 3-legged cat whose tumour was benign rather than the possibility of cancer quickly spreading.
Your vet sounds wonderful and I'm pleased that she will phone the specialist. You may have some clear answers on Monday.
Here is a forum on amputation costs: http://tripawds.....you-pay-1/
There's a separate one for cats: http://tripawds.....d-you-pay/
And here is a forum with information for financial support for dogs with cancer: http://tripawds.....ncer-care/
Charlie is obviously very special. I hope you can find affordable treatment so he's with you for many more years.
Kerren and Tripawd Kitty Mona
I also love how your vet is open to talking to the specialist and working to come up with a good plan. Together you've got a great team on your side, that is awesome!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Also- whenever we messed with any MCTs- removal or just an aspiration we put the pugs on benadryl and a stomach med like pepcid for at least a couple weeks. Mast cells release a lot of histimines when disturbed and can bother the stomach. Please ask your vet if they think Charlie should be on either or both of those meds.
Also on selecting the vet- my regular vet told me right away that she could not do the amp surgery and she referred me to a surgeon. I think a huge part of this journey is having confidence in your vet, that is the advice I would give you. I love my regular vet, we have been seeing her for the 16 years and I have the utmost confidence in her.
Don't feel bad for considering finances in your decision either, it is a fact of life. We all wish we had unlimited funds but that is just not the case. Find a vet you are comfortable with doing the surgery (if you choose that) which includes the cost.
Karen
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
Charliebug, I sent you a PM. You can get it by checking your inbox at the top of the forum by your login.
We had a Lab who also had mast cell rumors, but fortunately they were on his torso and not on his leg. The vet who did the surgery to remove them was not one of my favorite people, but he was the choice we had at the time. When he got the path report back, they told us that given the location, size and the fact that the two fairly large rumors were located far apart, Cody would have about six more months at best. Over six years later, we lost him to a brain tumor at the age of 12, totally unrelated to the MCT. It is definitely a strange disease.
Kathi and the Turbotail April Angel...and the Labradork
Murphy is a five year old Lab/Chessie cross. He was hit by a car on 10/29/12 and became a Tripawd on 11/24/12. On 2/5/13, he had a total hip replacement on his remaining back leg. He has absolutely no idea that he has only three legs!
UPDATE: Murphy lived his life to the fullest, right up until an aggressive bone lesion took him across the Rainbow Bridge on April 9, 2015 and he gained his membership in the April Angels. Run free, my love. You deserve it!
Hi, sorry you're dealing with this...my experience is with osteosarcoma, but I am familiar with the local vet/referral vet scenario. We initially planned to have our local vet do the amputation; then the surgery got re-scheduled due to futher biopsies being done - long story.
After having time to think about it, we decided to have the referral vet do the surgery because they are a 24 hr care center...he would be supervised at all times throughout the night. At our local vet, he'd be there by himself overnight, and I couldn't bear the thought of this. The referral vet cost me about $1000 more, but for my peace of mind, it was so worth it. The after care, including chemo, has been done by our local vet. He is almost 18 mos post amp of his right front leg, and is doing well, especially for a 10 yr old Doberman.
Are you familiar with/have acess to Care Credit? This credit card with no interest for varying time-frames allowed us to absorb the added cost of the referral vet.
At the end of the day, YOU have to be comfortable with your choices, no matter what others have done. I wish you well in deciding what the best course is for you. Keep us informed, we're here for you to help you with this journey.
Paula and Nitro
Nitro 11 1/2 yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms. Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"
"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior
Thank you all for replying. I really appreciate the support. You have no idea how comforting this is that we are not alone.
Someone had asked if Charlie had an ultra sound of his liver, and yes he did. He also had a biopsy. There was nothing in any of his pre testing that showed cancer in any form, and yes I do understand it is not 100% guarantee.
As far as my personal vet, I just love him. He treats our animals as though they were his own, literally. I believe the reason why he did the referral is that he knew he would not be able to remove the tumor where it is at and feel comfortable about getting it all, so hence the referral. But when I called my vet yesterday to explain the only possibility of having a sure shot at removing all the tumor, is that Charlie would have to have an amputation. Well when my vet heard this, he told me that he has done many amputations and that he would be willing to do it. He wanted to make sure there was not some miracle by a vet specialist that it could have been removed without amputation.
But, the idea of one of you stating my hometown vet would potentially leave him alone at night versus having 24 hour visual care, so of has me concerned. The thing is, is it $3100.00 more worth of a concern.
I realize that vets want to do everything for our pet, however, I was so taken aback when the specialist vet suggested a biopsy first to grade it and then do the amputation once the results come back. I just got a bad vibe that I was being taken for a ride, as he did not mention this biopsy when I agreed to the $1400.00 worth of pre checking for cancer.
Oh..... I am still at such a loss on what to do. I want what is best for him, and my personal vet is only 3 miles from my home, versus the specialty vet is a hour drive into the cities. And the significant difference in price, and the fact I have a husband that is wishy washy on spending that much on a dog. However, he realized quickly, he did not have a leg to stand on with decision of paying for a surgery.
I will wait for my vet to confer with the specialty vet and he plans to call me on Monday right after they speak. From what I hear, the sooner the better at getting these MCT removed. And yes, I did listen to the radio broadcast last night. Very good information.
I will keep you all posted come Monday. Again, it is a great feeling that I have someone, even strangers to type to that "get it". One more question. Did anyone's pet have real unease and become real clingy? He normally sleeps at my feet on the bed , however he now is up almost all night, shaking and very nervous and unable to get comfy. He literally will crawl all over me until I somewhat put him in a tight hold, and softly talk that he will be OK. I swear he knows everything that is going on. My vet did put him on Tramadol for this, yet he zonks for about 1 1/2 hours and then is onto his worry and shaking state.
Chat Monday! I pray I have a peace of mind in doing the right thing and Charlie gets the best of everything for his dilemma.
Charliebug
I'm so sorry you are having to go through this journey. One thing you maybe can discuss with your vet is if he would be left alone at night could you take him home the same day as the surgery? If you have trust in your own vet to do the surgery maybe that could save you some $. There have been some here who have come home the first night with their dogs. Especially with Charlie being a smaller dog that might be something to consider. Especially if the surgery could be done first thing and you pick him up late in the day. Just throwing things out there for options to consider. Good luck and keep us posted. As far as him becoming clingy could he perhaps be feeding off your emotion? Dogs are very perceptive and can tell when we're upset and they do react to us. Although all these tests etc and trips to the vet can be a bit upsetting to them too so add those two things together and that probably makes for a clingy dog too. Hugs ((()))
Linda & Max
So sorry to hear you're going through this. I took my dog home the same day as the surgery and it was totally fine. She was restless, but otherwise I didn't find caring for her too difficult (thanks to all the help I got here!).
My vet took my cat to his house for the first night after the amputation. I don't know if that was necessary but he was going camping for the weekend and wanted to know that she was adapting well before he left. He also gave me his cell number and another number for an on-call vet.
If you go ahead with the amputation I would suggest having the surgery done at least a few days before the weekend in case you need to contact the vet.
As for the clinginess, I don't think I can compare my cat to your dog because she was very relaxed during this whole ordeal, even at the vet clinic. She just goes limp. I have read in some of the postings that some dogs become anxious from tramadol. Perhaps the vet could reduce the dosage or suggest another pain med. I'm sure others could respond with their experience.
Kerren
Hi again.....you should consider bringing him home the same nite, as the others have said, being a small dog would be easier than, say an 85 lb doberman.....he'd be with you and not alone. The first couple nites home can be a little scary, but that passes.
As for the tramadol, it does do strange things to some dogs. You might ask your vet about gabapentin - which helps with nerve pain. Nitro was on both tram and gaba when he came home. There is always tweaking to be done to fine the right pain meds. Keep asking questions - knowledge is power! Have you been on the chat site? Have you called the helpline? There are a lot of great tools here, along with a lot of great people. We WILL be there for you, every step of the way.
Paula and Nitro
Nitro 11 1/2 yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms. Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"
"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior
Thanks again for all the caring posts. I have not called the help line as of yet, however, your posts have given me extra questions to ask my vet when he calls me tomorrow about Charlie spending the night or not and how tramadol is working for him (although, he had this behavior before he started the Tramadol) One thing I do know, is Charlie does not kennel or crate well at all, and I surely do not want to put that additional stress on him. His anxiety goes through the roof when the groomer puts him in a crate only for a few minutes.
As soon as I speak to my vet tomorrow, after he speaks to the emergency surgery vet center that originally was going to do this surgery until I found out my vet could do it as well, I will let all of you know where we are at, and then I am sure I will call the help line. I am so beside myself when I look at him run, and I mean run ( he laps our home for exercise) and the thought of him not doing that, (at least in hopes only for a short while and he will be back to his running)
I will keep you all posted. Thank you so much for your caring support. It is truly appreciated.
One question....where we live, cold MN and snow. When you took your pet out potty, how did you do this?
Charliebug
I can help you out with cold winters....we live in Wisconsin! Last winter I was super worried about ice more than anything; Nitro's surgery was in june, so he was pretty stable on 3 legs when winter came around. One of his vets suggested a product called "chicken grit" that we bought at Fleet Farm - 50lbs for under $6. It looks like small pieces of gravel (but isn't sharp) that gives incredible traction on ice. It's located in the farm animal section. An older gentleman helped me lift it into the cart and said to me "how many chickens do you have?" Apparently the eat it for some reason unknown to me. I thought that was the funniest thing I'd heard in a long time! We got Nitro a warm fleece jacket to wear; he loves the snow.I didn't want to put boots on him (althought he's worn them before) because I didnt want him to trip. Maybe we'll have a mild winter this year!
keep us posted
Paula and Nitro
Nitro 11 1/2 yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms. Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"
"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior
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