Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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CharlieBear is a very happy 8 year old rescue WonderPyr who was diagnosed with a herniating infiltrative lipoma two years ago. In some regards, that was good news as most infiltrative lipomas can be 100% eradicated with radiation. However, CharlieBear was not a candidate for that at the time according to the radiation oncologist on staff at the UGA Vet School. Boogers!!! is what we said. So surgery it was. CharlieBear went on to bask in the sunshine, chase buzzards in the sky, pancake flatten his BFF during WWDoggieWrestling, and, in general, live quite well. We knew there was a caveat: because the tumor had been removed surgically and there was no follow up radiation, the margins were not clean and the tumor could (and would) regrow. We are now back to minus square one. The tumor has returned and is snaking its way in three new directions. One is impinging on nerves near his shoulder. One is near his trachea. And one is near his vena cava. Of course, The Bear does not care! Triple boogers to that!
We have a continuum of three options: radiation, (front leg) amputation, and amputation with radiation. The saddest part is that he still- to some degree-uses his leg (although it is atrophying) and is in less pain than many, many others so it is terribly tough to make a call this time around. Because I have been here before: my previous WonderPyr, Heffalump, was diagnosed with OSA and had a rear leg amputation. After which he never used his other rear leg again (however, even with TWO legs and some assistance, he did amazingly well until the OSA spread to his spleen.) Heffalump would scoot himself so fast through the Vet School that the vets would look around and wonder where he went off to! So, I know that all things are possible and Heffalump was a rare case.
However…what would you do? I ask as everyone who has been here knows that thinking clearly is not something that happens after you hear the (initial) news…
CharlieBear is in otherwise good health, is in his late middle years, and is now on the thinner side. We are scheduled for an MRI on Wednesday and surgery on Thursday. Radiation would occur in January? The Vet School has a team from the following services (soft tissue/general surgery, orthopedics, neurology, and oncology as well as the radiation oncologist) devising a plan.
Additionally, I know that CharlieBear and I are very, very blessed to even be here and be with all of you.
Words of wisdom? Specific questions I should ask?
Love and PyrPaws to all
Well hello Charliebear. You have faced obstacles before. This one is not any worse. You will do great as a tripod especially with a Mom who has experience with caring for a tripod. Looking forward to hearing more about you. Hugs from Deb and Angel Bandit
Hey there Charliebear and welcome! I love Pyrs (and the name Heffalump is amazingly fitting for a Pyr btw). My golden is always mistaken for a Pyr. He's a front tripawd from osteosarcoma. For us, 2 YEARS post op would be amazing, but unfortunately, not likely. I don't think any of us can really advise you on what to do. The "right" decision is the one YOU end up making because no one knows your dog or your lives together like you do. It sounds like the tumor has spread to more than just where an amputation will help. What can they do for the tracheal and vena cave sections? I am an MRI tech and tumors in those areas have their own specific issues. Have they given you an idea of survival time with amputation and radiation? Radiation is hard and expensive because the dog has to be fully anesthetized each time and if there are followup CTs or MRIs, anesthetized for those as well. Lots to think about and yes, his lack of pain currently doesn't make the decision as imperative like it does for osteo dogs. Peruse the forums and blogs for info on amputation and recovery. Fionn's blog link is in my signature. We posted every day for 2 weeks to give people an idea of what to expect. He just posted (yes, Fionn writes most of his blog posts) an update for his 2 month ampuversary. He's doing great.
Best wishes in your decision making. We are all here to support you whatever you decide. 
Nancy- mom to the FABULOUS Fionn. He rescued me in 2015 when he was 6.
Right front leg amputation at age 7 for osteosarcoma 10/6/16. Taken too soon 6/12/17. Read about our journey here:
http://fionnsjo.....pawds.com/
rmmom said
I am an MRI tech and tumors in those areas have their own specific issues.
Nancy, how on earth did I miss that?! I will keep this in mind, thank you for your super valuable insight!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
CharlieBear and family, you're covering all your bases here. I know this isn't your first time at the pet cancer rodeo and am so sorry for that, but you really are doing great by working with UGA and getting various opinions. You already know that we can't tell you what to do, because all dogs are different, but here's what I think:
When it comes to medical decisions, I try to put myself in my dog's paws. Would an infiltrative lipoma, or an osteosarcoma leg tumor hurt me? Dang yes it would. I'd be crying like a baby. And although dogs are much more stoic at hiding pain than we are, I know that it would be hurting my dog too, although he wouldn't show it until it got really bad. So my primary goal would be to remove the source of the pain as best I could afford, as quickly as possible. And both decisions would hinge on what shape my dog was in. I'm guessing that's not much of a help, but maybe this post will come in handy:
Questions to Ask Your Veterinary Oncologist
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hello all from the BarkAllNightDoingMyJobMa!!! CharlieBear and me. And a huge thank you to Deb and Angel Bandit, Nancy and IT IS OBVIOUS I AM A PYR FIONN!!!, and, of course, Jerry and The Pack. Years ago Heffalump and I had no TriPawds to rely on and I cannot express CharlieBear's and my gratitude that you are all here with us.
Today we will be going back to the UGA Vet School where CharlieBear will be thoroughly examined by the orthopedics, neurology, oncology, radiology, etc. teams before his MRI. His case is so unique due to the type and locations of the tumor that the teams want to be certain all options are being considered. Besides being a working hospital it is a research facility so The Bear's case is, apparently, fascinating.CharlieBear even gets to pick his own vet student: he prefers the happy go lucky Be More Dog
type! Well, that and anyone who recognizes he is a lap dog...
Tomorrow is surgery day. CharlieBear will stay with his 24 hour concierge service then until next Wednesday afternoon. We have Angel Heffalump and our favorite oncologist to thank for The Bear's accommodations:) His reading material will continue to be Fionn's Journal of the No Good Very Bad Rotten Squirrels ( Oh gosh do I remember Heffalump doing many of the same things: even with just two legs I would go get the truck sometimes and come back and wonder how in the heck did he get away so fast?!?!) Fionn deserves a HemingPaw Writer's Award!
and Jerry, thank you for clarifying my muddled thoughts. I know it is hard to say what would you do but it sure helps at a time like this. All dogs are stoic and Pyrs more so which makes it easier to overlook the obvious " it's the pain, stupid!" factor; especially since this is not OSA and he does use the leg. But, dagnabbit, " it's the pain, stupid!". So thank you for bringing me back to reality:)
PyrPaws all around! Will update after we hear more from Team CharlieBear.
rmmom said
For us, 2 YEARS post op would be amazing, but unfortunately, not likely.
I know and feel terrible even mentioning it. Heffalump was an OSA warrior with many complications so I do understand. If CharlieBear's original tumor had not been so massive, radiation would have been possible and then likely a 100% "cure"/slow growth rate would have been possible. We have been VERY blessed that for the last two years CharlieBear has had no complications other than the leg not being as strong as his others.
What can they do for the tracheal and vena cave sections? I am an MRI tech and tumors in those areas have their own specific issues. Have they given you an idea of survival time with amputation and radiation?
So...according to the one of the vets the trachea and vena cava would potentially be sites that would qualify for radiation. His extensive MRI today will let them know more. Thank goodness you are an MRI tech!!! I will have so many questions for you:) CharlieBear's MRI will take place around noon and will take between 1 1/2 to 2 hours as they are imaging his entire spine and chest cavity. Heffalump's and CharlieBear's oncologist insisted on the MRI and suggested that with an amputation CharlieBear could live a full life (baring any complications) for another 3 years. By that time he will be an elder dog (Pyrs typically live between 10-12 years). But Team CharlieBear is honestly completely uncertain of what they will recommend and if the tumor is very onvolved, his survival time may be much shorter and the treatment protocol more intense.
Radiation is hard and expensive because the dog has to be fully anesthetized each time and if there are followup CTs or MRIs, anesthetized for those as well.
I HATE radiation. I absolutely hate it. Last year one of my cats went through daily stereotactic radiation for a brain tumor. Each day was drop off at the Vet School, sedate, radiate, wake up, take home, and repeat for a week or so. I really dislike anesthesia for Pyrs in particular and large breeds in general. But that is just my own paranoia and anxiety:(And, yes, then they image again. So CT/MRI, surgery, ANOTHER CT/MRI and radiation, and then a followup CT/MRI.
Fionn's blog link is in my signature. We posted every day for 2 weeks to give people an idea of what to expect. He just posted (yes, Fionn writes most of his blog posts) an update for his 2 month ampuversary. He's doing great.
Fionn is pretty pawtacular. Who knew he had he hidden talent of writer extraordinaire? I read all of his posts and they brought back so many Heffalump memories for me. Well done, Fionn, well done!
WHOA!!! JUST CATCHING UP!!! ,CHARLIEBEAR is sooooo ADORABLE!!! I want to snuggle with him right through that precious avatar picture!!!
For now,I'll just send lots and lots of love and suppprt and tons of positive energy for the best possible outcome to add to thethe great support you've already gotten!!
CharlieBear will be home and barkingallnightdoing his job in no time!
Lots of love!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too y
BTW...You're a great advocate for CharlieBear and all the furbabies who have chosen you as their human!!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Just wanted to add my welcome.
My cancer Tripawd was a little pug named Maggie who lost a rear leg to mast cell cancer. Small dog, rear leg, different cancer so not much to offer on the practical side 
However the first Tripawd Maggie met was a 150 pound Anatolian Shepard named Cemil. He lost his front leg to OSA and is still hopping more than 7 years later! He can't get too far these days as 7 years of hopping have taken a toll, but he is still guarding his household and enjoying life.
I hope you get good news today.
Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
And so...there is no diagnosis yet. CharlieBear has been seen by his local vet, the emergency vets at UGA and the following UGA services: soft tissue surgery, ortho, oncology, neurology. He has had extensive physical exams, blood work, a CT, and MRI which imaged his entire spine and chest cavity, and an EMG (that was a new one for us!) His infiltrative lipoma has grown about 50% from post surgery of two years ago. Other than that and a presentation of intermittent acute( I won't use my paw and it is atrophying) lameness ( and Pyrs are very stoic so we know that it hurts), everything has come back normal. After reading about nerve sheath tumors, the clinical signs most fit that as those tumors can arise from previously injured tissue (which his scar tissue from his previous surgery would qualify as). However, the vets see NO indications of that from the images or the EMG. None. Everyone is completely stymied at this point.
CharlieBear came home last night and is now on gabapentin. What should I look for in terms of improvement or side effects on gabapentin? Can he still take Previcox as well? (I have pulled him off tramadol as that just seems to make him beady eyed.)
Next week we are going to gather together again and discuss options. The vets have mentioned that we may want to debulk his tumor through major surgery or less major surgery or radiation (which is my least favorite option). The reason for that is he is now 8 and if the tumor continues to grow, he would be a less likely candidate for surgery at 10. But that is a secondary concern to his leg. The Vet School folks are really frustrated and concerned about the leg.
Has anyone had a case like this before? Are there nerve sheath folks who had a case present like this? The head of neuro says that amputation is not really an option as if we amputated CharlieBear may still be in pain and then we would not know because the leg is gone...
Help!!!
WOW! Talk about doing every single test possible, WOW!! I have zero insight into your situation. Hopefully someone here will know more.
As far as the Gaba, it's my non -vet understanding that Gaba can take several doses or so to really kick in. In some dogs, it can cause a bit of sleepiness, but, for the most part, dogs handle it really well. It sounds like it's a good choice as your pain blocker for your CharlieBear. And it doesn't seem to cause some of the "squirrelly" side effects that Tramadol does with some dogs.
You are doing an outstanding job of gathering information and doing your research AND of always keeping CharlieBear's best interest st the forefront! You know him best.
Lots of hugs!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Well this is frustrating news! All those tests without a diagnosis :(. Happens in people medicine too but at least we can say where it hurts. I have no experience with nerve sheath tumors sorry if that is even what it is. I CAN say that gabapentin really helped Fionn before and after surgery and there were no side effects. He actually acted almost normal after he was first put on it a week before surgery. Didn't last unfortunately as he started limping badly again a few days before amputation. It has helped post op with what I assume is the phantom pain (sudden yelping for no reason).
I'm sure your vet school will reach out to other specialists/vet schools to try and gather more insight. I got a second opinion from Colorado State when my last golden had sarcoma. I sent them records, they reviewed them and agreed with the diagnosis/recommendations from my vet school UC Davis. All done by email and phone and they just asked for a donation! Just throwing it our there. This is common practice in human medicine in complicate cases. I think Charliebear's case qualifies as complicated!
I wish you all the best as you try and sort this out.
Nancy and Fionn
Nancy- mom to the FABULOUS Fionn. He rescued me in 2015 when he was 6.
Right front leg amputation at age 7 for osteosarcoma 10/6/16. Taken too soon 6/12/17. Read about our journey here:
http://fionnsjo.....pawds.com/
rmmom said
. I CAN say that gabapentin really helped Fionn before and after surgery and there were no side effects. He actually acted almost normal after he was first put on it a week before surgery.
That is very good to know! I asked how long he would need to stay on it and they said if it works...forever.
I'm sure your vet school will reach out to other specialists/vet schools to try and gather more insight. I got a second opinion from Colorado State when my last golden had sarcoma. I sent them records, they reviewed them and agreed with the diagnosis/recommendations from my vet school UC Davis. All done by email and phone and they just asked for a donation! Just throwing it our there. This is common practice in human medicine in complicate cases. I think Charliebear's case qualifies as complicated!
Ahhhh, you know us so well! That is exactly what I think the oncologist is doing for us these next few days. She wouldn't say but she was our onco for Heffalump so she is extra helpful to us and for us. She is the head onco and she happens to be married to the head neuro and they are having a "discussion" as they just don't know - and have differing opinions-at this point. My gut feeling is they are calling round/sending out the MRI for additional eyes before we meet up again next week. The head surgeon recommended that we have the major surgery.
Please continue to give Fionn big hugs from us! CharlieBear and Fionn could be manure rolling buddies if we lived closer!
Geeze, this is hard enough to deal with when you know what kind of cancer you are dealing with...you must be so frustrated!
I don't have experience with nerve sheath tumors- I know we have had several members here who have dealt with them. I searched the forums for nerve sheath tumor and got these results. Maybe something there that can be of use to you.
My quad pug Tani was on Gabapentin for a couple of years as part of her arthritis treatment, she never had any side effects.
I hope your vets can come to a consensus and come up with a plan.
Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
Thank you for the link:) Very helpful AND Pofi's mom and I will be speaking soon:) Amazingly, she had generously offered a harness which is how I originally found this site: Pofi continues to guide us- what are the odds that the reason we are here led us to the Angel Pofi and his mom? Thank you again! Will update when there is a diagnosis. In all honesty, we are in a better place without a diagnosis at this point ( even without a Christmas this year the real Christmas is Da Bear's presence) . We can still stick our heads in the sand...until we can't
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