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Lung mets 101.. learning needed
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7 August 2018 - 10:27 pm
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I don't know much about lung mets.. Since the vet said that over 90% of osteo dogs will have lung mets after 1 yr,, I think I should know what I should know..to be prepared and ready to advocate...  I did a search here.. but didn't find the basic stuff, I know it's here.. just need a push where to look..   thanks

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8 August 2018 - 11:26 am
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Hey Luke,

What exactly do you want to know? 

I can only share my experience with Eurydice but when she developed lung mets I investigated as deep as I could and asked as many questions as I could to different oncologists in different countries to try and tackle the issue as best as possible. 

She did remarkably well and exceeded by far what my local oncologist predicted, based on her last xray.

Hugs and cuddles, 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

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8 August 2018 - 4:56 pm
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thanks for the tips..  Some things I didn't know:

  Once you amputate,, the lung mets spread faster  ( Pam commented on this)

 When you amputate, there should be no serious rush..  You aren't amputating to stop the cancer spread,  you are amputating to stop the pain..

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8 August 2018 - 7:53 pm
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luke4275 said
thanks for the tips..  Some things I didn't know:

  Once you amputate,, the lung mets spread faster  ( Pam commented on this)

This has been a much-debated topic for 20 years. So far we have not seen any studies that prove this theory or disprove it. Right now it's just theory, so keep that in mind.

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8 August 2018 - 8:16 pm
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One more thought?   When I was  debating whether to do an amputation of the cyberknife.. it was a very close choice..  I finally decided on the cyberknife bec I knew that Simon had some hip dysplasia in this right rear,, and the left rear was the problem.. As well.. the he hops like a deer.. made me think to keep the leg.. Had I known that lung mets is increased after amputation.. I might have made my decision to go with the cyberknife.. a bit quicker and with more confidence..  

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8 August 2018 - 8:16 pm
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typo               or the cyberknife    

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8 August 2018 - 8:18 pm
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thanks for letting me know about this just being a theory... 

Virginia
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8 August 2018 - 8:29 pm
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jerry said

This has been a much-debated topic for 20 years. So far we have not seen any studies that prove this theory or disprove it. Right now it's just theory, so keep that in mind.  

So glad you clarified  that Jerry!  I always  feel like this site,  in some cases,  is a better source  than any "scientific  studies" of what actually goes on.

Luke, you made a well informed and well researched  decision  for your Simon and did a good job of weighing the challenges with his hip dysplasia into the equation.  Well thought out for your boy and his situation .

And I  have to chcukle...and apologize at the same time.   As uou can teel from my typing, no worries  about correcting typos. I apologize  for all mine and hope they don't  make everybody too nuts when trying  to read my posts!  

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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9 August 2018 - 1:51 pm
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Hey Luke,

When we were discussing options for Eurydice both the surgeon and the oncologist mentioned there are theories about mets spreading faster if you remove the primary tumour.

They both said, as Jerry pointed out, these theories are not backed up by solid evidence. 

Hugs and cuddles 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹

    

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

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9 August 2018 - 2:56 pm
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Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, Rocky and I never made it the point of lung mets. But before Rocky's biopsy, I had a long conversation with the surgeon who performed his biopsy and later his amputation. 

The surgeon said removing the leg would stir up the cancer. His analogy was to think of the tumor as the mother ship. With the mother ship present, the smaller ships (mets) stay relatively in line. But once you remove the mother ship, the smaller ships go crazy and spread out.

He obviously recommended amputation for Rocky after the biopsy came back positive. But he also said he thought as advances are made with radiation therapy that it would be the future of treating osteosarcoma. But, as he said, "we're not there yet." 

Just what I was told, FWIW. 

David and Rocky (and Baxter now too!)

Rocky had his right front leg amputated on Valentine's Day 2017 after being diagnosed with osteosarcoma.

He joined the September Saints on September 3, 2017.

He is the toughest, bravest, sweetest and best friend I'll ever know. 

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9 August 2018 - 3:00 pm
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Rocky's dad said
The surgeon said removing the leg would stir up the cancer... 

Thanks for sharing! Here's another oncologist's view on that subject:

Does Amputation Speed Cancer Metastasis?

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9 August 2018 - 3:19 pm
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admin said

Rocky's dad said
The surgeon said removing the leg would stir up the cancer... 

Thanks for sharing! Here's another oncologist's view on that subject:

Does Amputation Speed Cancer Metastasis?

  

I'm going to see if I can find Rocky's report tonight, because I don't know if what they're saying is all that different. I'm specifically referring to this quote from the link: 

"So removing the primary tumor does not cause the cancer to metastasize faster, but simply allows the metastatic sites already present to start to grow."

Whether the cancer is spreading or growing, it sounds like removing the tumor could have a negative affect. The problem is, as both the article and my surgeon mentioned, the tumor is too painful to just leave alone. And radiation typically isn't as effective, from what I've been told and read. 

David and Rocky (and Baxter now too!)

Rocky had his right front leg amputated on Valentine's Day 2017 after being diagnosed with osteosarcoma.

He joined the September Saints on September 3, 2017.

He is the toughest, bravest, sweetest and best friend I'll ever know. 

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9 August 2018 - 3:34 pm
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It is so nerve racking different oncologists have different views and make different points based on how they interpret cancer and how they consider different studies (or lack of studies)

For me, I heard as many opinions as I could from professionals I respected equally and in the end I always followed my gut and tried to do the best I could. 

I am waiting anxiously for new discoveries to be made and for the new vaccines to work for our babies.

😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

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