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Relief for Phantom Pain and Crying Out
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Member Since:
10 June 2015
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23 June 2015 - 3:25 pm
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Hi,

So Loki had his right rear leg amputated on Thursday, he was doing so well he got to come home on Friday. The weekend went pretty good. The Fentanyl patch didn't agree with him so we took it off early (trouble urinating), he urinated fine without it.

Last night at about 3 a.m. he started to scream, it appeared he was having a phantom pain episode, it was very upsetting (and he was in so much pain). I got him calm and started to massage him and tell him he was ok. After settling him, I appllied ice and stayed with him until this morning, then I fed, gave meds, moist heat, ice and then I went to work.

This afternoon I spent all day with him. I did massage therapy with him, moist heat, ice, walked him outside for bathroom, and back inside or to a little 4x4 cage (I have other dogs so he hangs out and rests). He had 4 more episodes today, last one about 1 hour ago, I caught on video.

http://vid25.ph.....nuvrp5.mp4

He eats great, great attitude, happy.

Any suggestions, guidance I would appreciate. I have read just about everything on here for this, but want to know more. Or ways you have dealt with it (also how long will this last), will it go away?
He had 5 episodes Monday eve into Tuesday, and a few this afternoon.

On The Road


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23 June 2015 - 4:00 pm
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Ohhh poor Loki! You have our whole pack just feeling so bad for him! And you, that's tough to go through.

You are doing everything right as far as massage and cold therapy, but do get on the phone with your vet asap to talk about this. In this pain management article, Dr. Petty (immediate-past president of the International Veterinary Academy of Pain Management (IVAPM) and co-author of the 2014 American Animal Hospital Association Pain Guidelines) recommends:

Dog and Cat Amputation Basics: Post-Op

In the immediate post-operative period, NSAID’s. For dogs a long-acting opioid such as Recuvyra, or a fentanyl sustained-release patch or for cats an injection of Simbadol a 24 hour opioid that can be repeated with additional injections or sent home with an oral equivalent, and a drug called gabapentin, which helps shut down some of the pain signals to the spinal cord, are all drugs that should be considered.

Pain Sensitivity in Post-Op Tripawd Dogs

But what if your dog has already had an amputation? Depending on each case, there may several issues involved. Chief among them are two problems. The first and most difficult to manage is the development of something called hyperalgesia—an increased sensitivity to pain—that is the result of enduring, untreated pain conditions.

Let’s take a look at the hyperalgesia first. The spinal cord can respond to a constant barrage of pain signals by actually increasing its sensitivity to incoming pain signals and by recruiting non-pain-sensing nerve fibers, such as those used for touch, and turning them into pain fibers as well. These changes can become permanent if not treated, and maybe even if they are treated. If I have a patient with hyperalgesia I do several things:

I make sure that I am correcting the underlying cause of the initial pain, if still present.

I use gabapentin, a drug that not only blocks pain signals , but actually modulates a brain cell called a glial cell, which is implicated in chronic pain states.
I use amantadine, a drug used primarily for treating Parkinson’s disease, to shut down a pain pathway within the spinal cord called the NMDA pathway.

I use an NSAID to help control pain and inflammation at many levels of the pain pathway from nerve ending up to the brain.

I hope this helps, please let us know what the vet says.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
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23 June 2015 - 4:08 pm
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Thank You Jerry,lots of great info there.

I am picking up the Amantadine as I am typing this, I also have Alprazolam to use as well, if need be.

I was also a little concerned with his incision, a little red towards the bottom portion (not sure if it's leaking or why it's red, he isn't getting to it. I will try to post up picture of that once at home.

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23 June 2015 - 4:14 pm
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Here is how incision looks today, had Convenia for antibiotic (2 week injection), curious if it looks infected or the need for more antibiotics.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c78/hercules66/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpskht4ewwa.jpgImage Enlarger

On The Road


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23 June 2015 - 4:23 pm
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Weird, we think that we're on to something with the forums issues. Meanwhile...

Use care with the Alprazolam if you give it. Our Wyatt is very sensitive to that, along with similar drugs, they make him insane. GSDs don't like to not know exactly what's going on around them and when some get realllly dopey they can go nuts.

The incision looks pretty normal to me. If it's not oozing, warm to the touch or bleeding more than a typical seroma , it's probably OK. let your vet know your concerns though, that's always good for peace of mind.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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23 June 2015 - 4:42 pm
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My little Czech, nuts, never:-)

Ok very good, just gave the Alprazolam and the Amantadine (just picked up both), will give the other ones at bedtime, then have on same exact schedule tomorrow.

He just had another episode, again when he got up from laying down.

On The Road


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23 June 2015 - 4:52 pm
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That incision actually looks pretty good for less than a week post-op!

Try to keep it clean, but don't apply anything to it. Here's a Tripawds News blog post about post-op wound care if you're interested.

 

PS: we're still troubleshooting issues with posts not saving, but believe it may be related to some strict security blocking pharmacy keywords from saving.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

On The Road


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23 June 2015 - 4:55 pm
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Attempt to add the list of meds you originally sent:

Current meds
Tram - a - dol, 2 tabs, 3 x's daily
Meloxicam 7.5mg's, 1/2 tab daily
Gabipentin, (1) 300 mg tab 3 time daily
Fish oil
Dasaquin

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Virginia







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23 June 2015 - 5:56 pm
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Screenshot_2015-06-23-19-44-34_zpsunjt0gfi.jpgImage Enlarger

Screenshot_2015-06-23-19-44-45_zpsh1n6rsle.jpgImage Enlarger

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!



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23 June 2015 - 7:22 pm
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Ok very good, just gave the Alprazolam and the Amantadine (just picked up both), will give the other ones at bedtime, then have on same exact schedule tomorrow.

I'm not sure what you mean about having "on same exact schedule" but you might want to ask the vet or research first if you plan on giving all meds at the same time. I did this with my cat, because I wasn't told anything different, and read later that they should not have been given at the same time. My cat was a maniac when she was not sleeping and I suspect it was from my meds mismanagement.

Hope the pain goes away soon.

Kerren and Trikitty Mona

On The Road


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23 June 2015 - 7:28 pm
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Great advice Kerren, thank you for catching that.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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23 June 2015 - 7:45 pm
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kazann said

Ok very good, just gave the Alprazolam and the Amantadine (just picked up both), will give the other ones at bedtime, then have on same exact schedule tomorrow.

I'm not sure what you mean about having "on same exact schedule" but you might want to ask the vet or research first if you plan on giving all meds at the same time. I did this with my cat, because I wasn't told anything different, and read later that they should not have been given at the same time. My cat was a maniac when she was not sleeping and I suspect it was from my meds mismanagement.

Hope the pain goes away soon.

Kerren and Trikitty Mona

To clarify,

I am doing some of the meds 3x's daily (Gab, tram), I believe the Amantadine is only twice daily, Meloxicam 1x daily. Sure I can stagger the meds given 3x's a day a hour or two apart, if that would help.

On The Road


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24 June 2015 - 3:46 pm
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disregard this reply. just attempting to post content originally unable to be saved...

 
 
Hi,
So Loki had his right rear leg amputated on Thursday, he was doing so well he got to come home on Friday. The weekend went pretty good. The Fentanyl patch didn't agree with him so we took it off early (trouble urinating), he urinated fine without it. 
Last night at about 3 a.m. he started to scream, it appeared he was having a phantom pain episode, it was very upsetting (and he was in so much pain). I got him calm and started to massage him and tell him he was ok. After settling him, I appllied ice and stayed with him until this morning, then I fed, gave meds, moist heat, ice and then I went to work.
This afternoon I spent all day with him. I did massage therapy with him, moist heat, ice, walked him outside for bathroom, and back inside or to a little 4x4 cage (I have other dogs so he hangs out and rests). He had 4 more episodes today, last one about 1 hour ago, I caught on video.
He eats great, great attitude, happy. 
Current meds
Tramadol, 2 tabs, 3 x's daily
Meloxicam 7.5mg's, 1/2 tab daily
Gabipentin, (1) 300 mg tab 3 time daily
Fish oil
Dasaquin
Any suggestions, guidance I would appreciate. I have read just about everything on here for this, but want to know more. Or ways you have dealt with it (also how long will this last), will it go away?
He had 5 episodes Monday eve into Tuesday, and a few this afternoon.
Wondering if Valium or amantadine would help?
 
Thanks
 
Jack

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
10 June 2015
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26 June 2015 - 8:59 pm
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Having trouble posting, but wanted to update. (so maybe this will go through

Loki continues to have the problem, still believe it's most likely Phantom Pain (doctor doesn't disagree).

Doctor wanted to prescribe ace and oxycodone, I wasn't really wanting that, I want my dog happy, not a zombie.

Continues to happen every time at night when he gets up. During the day he has them every time he rests

On The Road


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27 June 2015 - 9:35 am
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Hey it went through. What's going on with posting? We thought we had fixed the issues and haven't had any issues the last few days. Please message us so we can help.

Meanwhile, I'm not a vet so take this for what it's worth but I would never give a dog ace when phantom pain is suspected, so you did good. Ace has so many drawbacks, especially for anxious dogs, and it's not a pain reliever or indicated for use in this kind of situation. I stay far away from it personally. Not sure why he recommended oxycodone, never heard of it being used for phantom pain . Did he say why?

Did your vet recommend anything like acupuncture?

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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