Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hello, our dog Dusty had his left front leg amputated in October 2011. Things went really well and as of February 2012, the cancer has not metastasized to his lungs (per x-ray) and his blood work was great. Recently, he seems to pant/breathe fast all the time when he gets up to hop/walk/run anywhere. When he is at rest, he is fine. I have also noticed that he hops a little, stops, hops a little more stops and then goes to wherever he wants. Sometimes he will just sprint out of the house to go to go potty or whatever and he does not seem bothered...yet he'll stop then and pant a lot. He has also been having periodic howling and crying dreams at night. Normally, all I have to do is call his name and say Dusty...it's ok and he stops. He also twitches a lot while sleeping. I was wondering if any other tripawds experienced this and/or if he is in more pain. I also worry with his breathing if maybe the cancer has spread to his lungs in this short period of time. The breathing is not labored or loud...he just pants as soon as he gets up. He still is eating really well, drinking, going potty, wanting to play with his toys and still jumps up on people (which we hate) when they come in...so I question how much pain he is in, but I don't want to dismiss it either. We are currently giving him Science Diet JD (I think that's the name..it's by prescription only), Dasaquan, a probiotic pill and a herbal supplement Artisimin (sp). It was shown to possibly dogs with osteosarcoma, so I figured we would try it. Our vet agreed..after he did a little research. Any thoughts or anyone else experience any of these issues? I just cannot think about the cancer spreading and what we may have to face. He is my love! I was wondering if putting him on Rimadyl may help if he is in pain. Has anyone had their dog on Rimadyl for a long period of time? His back legs seems to be a little weak too...yet he still runs like there is nothing wrong. Sorry for being all over the place with this....I'm just worrying so much! Thank you for any help you can provide! Dusty's Mom...
welcome dusty and dusty's mom. sorry to hear of your pup's diagnosis, but sounds like the surgery went well, which is a great start to becoming a tripawd. even though it's only been two months since the chest films, there could be changes in that time...but, have you considered allergies?? here in ET the allergens have been awful this spring, and it leaves all of us (humans, pups and kitties) with a raspy sound at times.
what does your vet think of the rimadyl? we have used it for all of our pups at one time or another, but don't have experience long-term. it can cause liver/kidney problems, but that's easy to monitor with blood tests.
how old is dusty?? gayle was 10 when she had a right front amp. she was a pretty layed-back girl anyway, so there wasn't much running about before or after...the hop associated with a front amp is harder, we think, than the gait a rear legger can handle (dogs' front legs carry 60% of their weight)...so it's normal that they tire a little quicker. i would probably be at the vet's office, getting new films and bloodwork, to see if there are answers in the results. do let us know what you do, and how dusty is doing......oh, and we love pictures!!
charon & spirit gayle
Life is good, so very, very good!!! Gayle enjoyed each and every moment of each and every wonderful day (naps included). She left this world December 12, 2011 – off on a new adventure.
Love Never Ends
If Dusty is panting during activity, that's one thing, but if he's just laying there and seems winded, then that would give me more cause for worry. I think the older dogs have a little more exertion when getting around, which causes them to stop and pant. Rio was almost 11 when she had her amp, and although she would run and play with my other two younger dogs, she definitely tired faster than them, and after the amp, she tired even quicker. She would hop and stop, catch her breath, then go again. When she started panting without any exertion, I knew that she was uncomfortable. (She had a chronic lung issue towards the end -- not mets, but we never were really sure what it was -- that I surmised was due to some of her previous cancer treatments.)
Rio also had a lot of running dreams after the amp. I chalked it up to her brain being more active than her body could compensate for. She was making up for the lowered activity levels by having lots of "bunny dreams." I don't have any scientific evidence to back this up, but this is what I believed was going on.
Hope this helps. Good luck to you and Dusty.
Rio's momma, Micki
PS: With the artemesisin, there have been lots of pups here who have used it. Abby's mom, Jackie, can probably give you lots of info on how it worked for them.
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~ ~ Rio ~ ~ |
Hi, welcome to you and Dusty. Sorry you had to find us here. I don't want to be alarmist, but you should know that lung mets can appear rather quickly. Not always, but sometimes. A friend (not on this site) had lung mets appear about 6 weeks after a clear X-ray, so it can happen quickly. However, hopefully it is not that! Since it is only after activity that he pants, hopefully it is something else. Where do you live? Is the weather getting warmer? Our Abby didn't do great in hot weather exercising post amp. We were lucky to be able to take her to the beach so she could cool off in the water. How old is your dog? Like Rio's mom said, it might just be age??
No experience with Rimadyl long term, but we did do artemisinin with Abby. I think it helped and just wish we'd started it earlier. It has very low toxicity so should not cause any problems for Dusty. (it's been used for like 100s of years in china for malaria, and was somewhat recently found to be effective for cancer treatment.)
All the best and keep us posted!
Jackie, angel Abby's mom
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
Thank you ALL for posting back. I am still trying to figure out this site. There is so much going on but I love it! How do I add a picture? I want to show you all "my love".
Regarding the artemisinin , I only give him one pill a day. He is around 70 lbs. Do you think that's enough? Again regarding his health, he does not seem to be labored, but just pants a lot once he's up and moving. At rest, he is quiet and calm (except for his little night dreams). Funny, right after I wrote this last night, he had one. This time he was barking a little, but it was a bark like he was still sleeping. I did my normal..."Dustybear it's ok". I had heard, and I may be wrong, but when cancer has gone to their lungs they normally have like a croupy cough or sound like a train. He is just panting.
I know it sounds crazy, but I don't want to take him to the vet for another x-ray because I worry about the amount of x-ray he is getting, and could that make things worse? I was thinking maybe his hind legs are hurting and some rimadyl might help and maybe he could be on it for a longer period of time. I know before when the vet put him on it, he seemed to get around better, but I know they don't like to keep them on it long due to their kidneys.
We live in the East and the pollen is very high. I did notice a week or two ago his nose was drippy, but then it stopped. I know the vet said I could give him one whole benedryl. Maybe I should try that.
I am praying and trying to believe it is not cancer in his lungs because I just don't want to lose him! I don't know that I could handle the vet telling me it was in his lungs. I know there is not much we can do then. He still looks healthy, eats like a pig, plays and runs...it's just the panting that is worrying me and his stops in between his hops. One other thing...we did find a lump (movable) near his right front leg (before his dx of cancer). The vet pulled fluid from it and he said it did not look cancerous and the fact that it was moveable, was a good sign too. He has us watching it. It hasn't gotten any bigger, but if I rub over it (while giving him love..of course :)) he looks at me like it hurts. The vet said we could excise it if I thought it might be bothering him. Well...I don't know. Maybe it is and maybe that is what is causing his pain/panting. I just hate to put him through another surgery right near the only good front leg he has. Any thoughts on that?
You all are wonderful and these little beings just warm my heart! We are blessed to have them with 4 or 3 legs! I know I LOVE mine. BTW...Dusty is 8 and is a Golden Retriever.
Thanks for your help. Have a great weekend!
Diane and Dusty
Welcome to Tripawds Diane and Dusty!
Sorry cancer brought you here, but this really is a wonderfully supportive and knowledgeable community.
Posting pictures- they have to be hosted online somewhere, follow the instructions here for Adding Images to Your Post. Here is another link for Adding Images from Your facebook or photobucket account.
You should also look at the Nutrition Blog. Lots of information there on diet, supplements and meds.
There is not really a chance that xrays will cause problems. Yes, the techs wear lead aprons and stand behind a wall, but that is because they do many a day, day after day.... The question you should ask yourself is: would I do anything differently if there are lung mets? If not, maybe you don't do routine xrays. Some people want to know if they are there, some don't. It is up to you and your pack to decide what is best.
On the lump- if you are going to worry about it maybe it would be best to at least get a definitive answer. How big is it? I have had several mast cell tumors taken off my pugs with just a local anesthetic and a few stitches.
Rimadyl is a NSAID (anti-inflammatory) and if it causes problems it is usually in the liver. Quad pug Tani has been on it for over a year for what is now pretty sever arthritis. We started with a low dose, and have increased it over time. We do regular blood work to check liver function and so far so good. It has made a huge difference in her mobility and her quality of life. But I would caution you might not to start the meds for joint pain and/or inflammation until you really need them. Tani has built up a tolerance, and we are maxed out on the dosage.
I'm looking forward to some pics of Dusty.
Karen and the pugapalooza
Hi Dusty & Diane,
Thanks for joining us here, we hope we can help ease your worries. As you can already tell we have a lot of great people and Tripawds here!
My first thought when I read your post is, is Dusty overweight? If so, that could be why he's tired. Plus, it's just harder to get around as a front-leg Tripawd. I panted a lot more after I lost my leg too, and it wasn't mets that were causing it.I just had to put out more effort to get around.
So if he's overweight even by a pound, I would start to focus on helping him lose weight. One pound of fat on a dog is the equivalent of five on a human, so keep that in mind. You may want to focus on helping him build his strength in his core muscles, which will contribute greatly toward helping him get strong. Our Gear Blog's Fitness Page has some good tips, as well as these posts about rehab and Tripawds.
As for lung mets reappearing....they do generally come back as a light persistent cough, but all dogs are different. Sometimes panting is a sign, sometimes it isn't. The only way to know for sure is an x-ray. But like Karen says, if you did an x-ray (which won't make cancer worse, by the way), what would you do differently if you found out he did have mets? Some people get follow up x-rays some don't. That's a decision you have to be comfortable making. My own thought is that information is power but we didn't get x-rays until 17 months past my diagnosis, when we suspected mets (which I had).
I can't advise you about artemisinin , since I didn't use any, but there is a great Yahoo Group about this supplement. Just search for artemisinin , you'll find it pretty easily.
Before you start using NSAIDs, consider asking yourself why you think he might need it. If he is overweight, just losing those few extra pounds can alleviate any joint pain he's feeling. Of course talk to your vet about this medication too. There are other options out there like Metacam. But either way, NSAIDs are shown to have anti-tumor growth effects, which is why doctors use it as part of the Metronomic Protocol (at-home, low-dose chemo for cancer dogs), so this could be a positive thing if you did want to start him on NSAIDs.
I hope this helps!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Welcome to Tripawds Dusty and Dusty's Mom!! It is so great to be able to come to a website like this and get support to help us with our Tripawds. Hopefully you will be able to figure out what is going on with Dusty soon so you can help him feel better. Since you have noticed a change in his behavior recently there has to be some kind of cause. Maybe he is developing some kind of arthritis and the Rimadyl would help. It is worth a try. My Great Dane Valentina was on Rimadyl for several months before her cancer diagnosis and then for 7 months after her amputation. I tried to take her off of it for about a week but I noticed her having more trouble getting up and generally being slower and seeming to be in some discomfort somehow. So I put her back on it. So I guess she was on it for about a year total and she had no problems associated with it. Sometimes Tripawds get arthritis from having to put all of their weight on 3 legs and their weight is distributed more on one side of their body so it can cause stress on their joints and their spine. If Dusty's rear legs are seeming to be weak maybe he is having some arthritis or something in his spine. You could get the vet to examine him for possible causes of the weakness in his back legs and his possible pain. The vet will check his reflexes and other things too. And if he does have some kind of arthritis then the Rimadyl could help him feel much better. I am sure hoping that he hasn't developed any lung mets. Good Luck and hoping you can find what is causing him to pant when he gets up and around.
Angel and Valentina Angel Dane
Hi again...I can answer on the arte stuff...
Are you giving him straight "artemisinin " (best place to get it is Holley Pharmaceutical) - if so the usual recommended dose is ~2.2 to 4mg per lb of body weight per day. So, if you are giving him a 50 mg pill (also comes in 100 mg though, so check which you have) you could safely give him 3-4 pills/day.
Here's some more info on it (don't want to overwhelm you - you can always PM me if you want. Also, as Jerry says - the Yahoo Group "artemisinin_and_cancer" is a great group with lots of info and is just for dog owners):
- "Artemix" is considered a "better" option than just plain artemisinin . It's a blend of 3 types of the same basic herb: artemisinin , artesunate and artemether. The dose for that is calculated based on how much artemether is in the mix, so figure 1-2mg of artemether per lb body weight per day. (Best place to get it is Hepalin.com.)
- Most people give it every day for 8 weeks, then go to every other day.
- The pills should be given in a whole milk product (I always gave it in a ball of cream cheese) and need to be given 3 to 4 hours after dinner. (Or after breakfast or whatever - the important thing is to not give it near any food/treats with iron.)
Note that this info (including best places to purchase from) is all from Dr. Singh who is one of the top researchers on the use of arte for dogs.
As for the lump, if the vet looked at it and doesn't think it is cancer, I would think that isn't what's causing any of his other troubles. Might be worth asking the vet. If it were me, I'd probably ask the vet to be sure it was safe to leave it, but then go ahead and just leave it be (unless, like Karen said, it's an easy local anesthesia and you're done kinda thing).
PM me if you want more info. Hope the arte stuff wasn't too confusing.
Jackie
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
Oh Gosh, I had two posts within the last month or so - one was about Zeus panting more when he moves around and one was about a worrisome lump...
About a month ago Zeus starting exhibiting the same panting that you describe. Normal breathing when sitting or laying, normal appetite, bathroom habits, etc. Just increased panting when hopping along. He also seemed to tire more easily. I also was concerned about lung mets causing it (he had a 'suspicious' spot on a lung at the time of diagnosis in November; at his follow up x-rays on 1/27/12 the spot had grown a little and was definitely a met but was still 'single'; at the time I posted in March about the panting he was scheduled for his second follow-up x-rays a week later). The x-rays ended up showing that the met was still single and did not appear to have grown so I was GREATLY relieved! Although the panting issue has resolved some, I still notice it sometimes. This all started about a week after his fifth chemo treatment (chemo is cumulative in the system and the side effects increase with the treatments) and it may have been related to the chemo building up. It also coincided with the exceptionally early/warm spring, and with increased yellow goop in his eyes, so it may be allergies. We are also on the East Coast.
Zeus also has a lump which moves around and he also does not care for us touching it. But, he has many many lumps that have popped up in his older age. After testing the first few, we just decided we can't test every one that appears or he would constantly be undergoing biopsies. And, with everything else going on we just can't fathom subjecting him to any more pokes and prods. We're just keeping an eye on it for now.
Sorry to be so wordy, but I hope it helps to know that we were having the same exact symptoms and that the x-rays were clear! Hoping for happy, healthy days to come for you guys!
Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11. A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/
I'm so sorry you have had to join us here. We understand how scary it is. You've gotten a lot of great advice and I can't add anything but I just wanted to welcome you.
Comet - 1999 to 2011
She departed us unexpectedly January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.
She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.
Another possibility that occurred to me, unfortunately, which I didn't see mentioned yet is that another tumor is developing elsewhere. Around the same time that they found lung mets with my tripawd with osteosarcoma, Yoda, his veterinary oncologist also felt his gait had changed and suspected a tumor in one of his back legs. But, I'm no vet. And I never noticed Yoda pant more when he was going through these things. This is just what crossed my mind based on the concerns you mentioned.
I'm a when-in-doubt-see-the-vet type person, but I understand not everybody feels that way. I just obsess way too much if left to my own devices, so I'd rather know whatever the vet can find out when something is off with my dog and hopefully do something helpful about it.
Hang in there! Stay pawsitive! You'll make the best decisions for your pup and your situation, whatever those are.
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Our Lylee pants much more since her amputation. She is now quite sensitive to heat so we bought her a "cool bed" made by K&H and it works really well for her. It also takes alot more effort to hop so that increases panting too!
She has been on long term Rimadyl - she is 85lbs and gets 75mg once a day which is half dose (twice a day is the full dose) it can elevate liver enzymes and potentially cause stomach problems. So we get regular blood checks.
She also gets artemisinin - 200mg after her meal in cream cheese (with a host of other non iron supplements!)
We get chest xrays every few months. Apparently these don't use as much radiation as other xrays. So it might ease concerns to repeat them.
Sending hugs!
Joanne & Lylee
http://lyleegir.....ipawds.com
Thanks again to all of you for your help and support. I took Dusty to the vet Friday. Quite scared about what the vet might say and wasn't sure if I wanted to hear it. Thankfully, GOD IS GOOD! The vet felt we should at least take on picture of his lungs and take pictures of his hind legs. From the view from chest -ray the vet said he did not see any evidence of cancer anywhere. However, I guess there are 2 more views he could get...if we wanted to pay the extra money and "be sure" He did say though...even if you get the other views...will it change your protocol. I said no. We are not going to go the chemo route or anything. His hind legs looked good, although he does have some hip dysplasia in if left leg (which we knew) but I thought maybe the cancer had gone to one of the hind legs, but it had not. The liver, spleen and stomach all looked good too. His weight remained the same since his last appt. which was 68 lbs. All his hair makes him look heavier than he actually is. The vet thought maybe we try the minimal dose of tramadol to help out with any possible pain he might be having due to the hip dysplasia and he is also on rimadyl. I have noticed he cannot handle the heat. So there is "no" opening of windows here. It's AC all the time (which is ok with me). I do like to get some fresh air in the house every now and then, but for my love...the AC will stay on. Another issue we will face..is we have a pool and he LOVES to be outside when anyone is in or around the pool. He likes us to throw him balls into the pool and he stands along the edge until the ball gets there and leans in and takes it out with his mouth. I don't think he is going to be able to do that and it is so hot on the pool deck. I am thinking about getting him some of those booties so he does not slip and one of those cool mats. Does anyone have specific suggestions regarding the cool beds and booties? So...for now..I guess we just keep an eye on him and I feel "somewhat" comforted in knowing at least where the vet looked (via the x-ray) no sign of cancer! Yay! If his breathing gets worse, we are to call and if I want...he can do the other views. I wish every one of you with a Tripawd so much joy and love! He is my "BEST FREIND"! Have a GREAT SUNDAY! Diane and Dusty! BTW....I hope you like his picture. I finally figured out how to do it!
Diane and Dusty
Sounds like the news was good on Friday....that's awesome. He is such a cutey. I wanted to comment on Dusty's dreaming. My Rizzo has always dreamed and ran and barked in her dreams before her cancer. In the last couple of months the dreams have been more like dog fights and screaming which I gently wake her up from and calm her down. I took her to her vet and we all decided this was a pain signal and we started her on tramadol three times a day which has really helped. They hide their pain and when the vet tells me it's pain....I am doing what ever it takes to help her out.
Here's to our happy, comfortable, loving puppies! Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Rizzo's mom Suzie
Jack Russell born in 2001. Mast cell cancer found Dec 2009 and right rear amputation. Five rounds of chemo done before all treatment stopped. Living life to the fullest!! Read my story at http://rizzo.tripawds.com
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