Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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We live in State College, PA and there is not an oncologist in this area. Several local vets (including ours) offer chemo, but none of them have an oncologist on staff. Zeus sees the orthopedic specialist at our vet and he has been great for the amputation, but has given us very little guidance on the chemo and other options for cancer treatment (supplements, diet, etc.). He is a great ortho doc, and I think he knows the logistics of administering chemo, but not all of the in-depth cancer support info.
Is there ever a situation that an oncologist from another area will jump on board for consultations only? I would like to start artesimin (sp?) and also to change his diet, but I am so very confused over when to start these things. We were getting started on changing his diet this week, but just this morning I found a post on one of these forums saying that most oncologists recommend NOT changing diet during chemo treatments. I am so confused.
Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11. A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/
Hi, we are not in the same situation as we are in a big city and see an oncologist almost exclusively now with Abby, but I believe I've heard others from small towns say their vet consults with an onc. in another city - not sure of the logistics/cost, but hopefully someone w/ experience will weigh in.
As for getting diet/supplement advice from the vet/onc, I know the books/sites that talk about the various supplements generally say to "discuss it with your vet" before starting anything new, but I've found my vet/onc don't really have a whole lot to say on the subjects. I've told our onc everything I'm doing with Abby and he is fine with all of it, but didn't really have any input. There was one thing where he gave me good input - I asked about giving antioxidants during chemo. There is some hubbub out there about whether this aids the dog's "good" cells that need some help, because they take a beat-down from the chemo, or whether it actually helps the cancer cells. Our onc said that there's no conclusive proof either way and explained the theories behind each school of thought. He said there was a study done with dogs on chemo where some were given antiox.'s and some not, and there was no real difference in the end. He said he would never let me do something he thought would be un-doing the work he's trying to do w/ Abby w/ her drugs, and he was fine w/ me giving her the antioxidants. He said it wouldn't hurt and hopefully helps. He said you'd have to be giving super high doses for it to be a bad idea.
As for changing the diet, I've also heard that you shouldn't change during chemo, as a change in diet can upset the GI tract, and so can chemo, so not a good idea to do both at once.
Re: artemisinin , I'd start with this page here and then if you want to learn more, there's a Yahoo group called "artemisinin_and_cancer" that you can join that will give more info. Or just PM me and I can share what we are doing with Abby.
When/if you do add in supplements be sure to go slowly and add them one at a time so you know the dog is handling them ok before adding in the next one.
It's overwhelming, I know - there's lots of info out there and it's hard to wade through it all.
Jackie, Abby's mom
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
Thanks, Jackie. Your comment about the vet/onc not having much to say is kind of what I'm running into. Our vet has really not discussed anything cancer-related to us since we gave the okay on chemo and then dropped him off for his first treatment. I truly believe that he knows the standards for actually administering the chemo but doesn't have the expertise on "whole body" approach to treating this terrible disease.
Our vet's office has a "client services technician" who is very thorough in following up with us after visits and helping to address questions. Her own dog was treated for cancer and, at one point when I mentioned artemisinin , she said that when Dr. Rider treated her dog he was fairly open to her using supplements and took the approach of "it can't hurt". I just really think an oncologist would be better suited to help us determine the best overall treatment plan. For example, we decided we should change his diet and we decided on 1/2 Halo dry food and 1/2 homecooked (Dr. Olgivie's diet - I can't remember the spelling!) but then we realized that the amounts in the cooked diet were based on an entire cooked diet. The recommended amount for the Halo is based on an all-Halo diet. If we are doing 1/2 of each, do we literally give 1/2 of each or is that going to mess with the nutritional value of each.
Lord, this really is so overwhelming! Thanks for your input!!
Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11. A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/
zeuspod said:
Is there ever a situation that an oncologist from another area will jump on board for consultations only? I would like to start artesimin (sp?) and also to change his diet, but I am so very confused over when to start these things. We were getting started on changing his diet this week, but just this morning I found a post on one of these forums saying that most oncologists recommend NOT changing diet during chemo treatments. I am so confused.
It's not surprising you're running into this. Veterinary oncology is a rather new field and there are fewer than 500 oncologists in the entire USA! Yes, most oncos will consult with your vet. Give Colorado State's Argus Institute a call, they're a great free place to turn to for resource help.
As for the diet, yes, it's advisable not to make any major changes during treatment just to ensure that if your dog experiences GI upset, you'll know that it's the chemo that's causing it and not the diet. It's hard to narrow symptoms down when so much is happening all at once. If you are going to make changes, do it before you start chemo, not during.
One step at a time, you'll get there.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
We had a few phone consults with someone at CSU when we were considering radiation as an alternative to amputation - they knew we lived in NYC and weren't likely to come there. They were exceedingly helpful and generous with their time, so that's a good recommendation. If all else fails, I'm sure you could pay someone for a consult - I'd look for a teaching veterinary hospital. good luck!
I was a bit in the same situation. When Tazzie was diagnosed, we happened to be relatively near (3 hr drive) to a city with an oncologist and cancer care center. I returned home - 15 hrs further away - where there was no oncology or cancer care for dogs.
What seemed most important is to have someone who cares and will communicate with you. The oncology practice mostly seemed into charging excessively (even when the less expensive treatment might have been preferable, I learned later). And the chemo person was very unavailable. That did not apply to all vets at the center - the surgeon was terrific and communicated with us.
I found one vet in my city who had done a little bit of chemo, so took Tazzie to her. What was good is that she was receptive to the information I found, mostly through this website. Yes, you can find oncologists who will consult from a distance including CSU, but you can probably find someone in Pennsylvania. Through one of the tripawds (thanks again Maximutt), we ended up with two oncologists consulting from very long distances (Michigan and California!), and my local vet was happy for this information. So I think the vet's attitude matters the most. We had unusual developments (SubQ mets) and used metronomics and a few other alternatives. Unfortunately our ride was not particularly long, but the time he did have was good in quality.
Technically, Tazzie was still a patient of the original oncologist, but even my vet could never reach her by phone.
Susan
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