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Metronomics 1+ year?
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New Haven, CT
Member Since:
27 December 2012
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10 January 2014 - 11:24 am
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Hello! Jackson just got home from his 1 year checkup!  And he passed with flying colors!  His onco is so happy with how he's doing.  We are too.  I didn't think we'd make it...but here we are!  YEY!  He had blood and urine collected so tomorrow we'll hear how those are.  Again, at this point his onco is basically checking that his vital signs are great and that his oral chemotherapy (metronomics , using Leukeran = chlorambucil) isn't suppressing his bone marrow.  We didn't get chest xrays as the results wouldn't change a single thing.  We might as well save some money and a TON of stress on my part and forgo them. 

IF we make it to March, that'll mark the ONE YEAR of being on metronomic chemotherapy .  At that point, however, it makes sense to do chest xrays.  If Jackson has clear lungs, his onco wants to take him off metronomics .  Cancer cells do evolve and can evolve to either start using the drugs to aid their growth or the drugs simply have no impact.  Sadly, there's no test for this, or at least no test for it in furbabies.  The theory is that keeping a dog or cat on metronomics for more than a year can lead to secondary cancers and/or mets.  BUT if the dog or cat already has mets, we obviously know that metronomic therapy can be crucial to their palliative care.  So: if Jackson has clear lungs, I guess we go off metronomics .  If Jackson has mets, then we keep him on chlorambucil.  Make sense?

If your furbaby is on metronomic therapy, what's your onco's plan?  To stay on it forever?  Or no more than a year (or so)?  Why?  All these questions are specifically for the pup or kitty withOUT mets.  Let's get the Tripawd Nation working on this issue.  Maybe even a blog post...?

The thought of chest xrays scares the &*%^ out of me.  I hate those things.  How awful it would be to bring him in without clinical signs and be told that he's got lung mets?  I know it'll happen one day, but that way?  Ugh.  Of course, the MAJOR upside would be getting the news that they're all clear.  Just thinking about that appointment, which is like 12 weeks away already gets me sweating.  I may have to be medicated the week before and kept comatose during his appointment.

OK, back to better things: it's been more than a year as a Tripawd and Jackson is doing great!  Like always, we'll forget about the future, play some ball, wrestle, chase each other around the house, and look forward to romping around in the snow.

Here's my fuzzface at his appointment today:

IMG_20140110_100432_481.jpgImage Enlarger

 

~ Katy & Jackson

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!





Member Since:
16 October 2012
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10 January 2014 - 11:49 am
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Yay Katy & Jackson.  I am so glad to hear the good news about your appointment.  Now don't sweat those x-rays we know they will be clear ;) .  I know that some vets oncologists and I can't remember what tripawd on here was taking metronomics for 2 years then went off.  Sadly as you know we didn't get that far but I am not sure what our oncologists at K-state would have told Dr Boyer. 

We are still discussing the spaying of the girls.  I want to wait as long as possible but I also know there is the chance of mammary cancers.  Osteo vs Mammary Osteo is worse so Dr Boyer is checking on information as we get closer to that point (sorry for changing the subject there).

 

Keep kicking butt Mr Winter Warrior.  We are proud and we are pulling for you.

 

Hugs

Michelle & Angel Sassy

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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10 January 2014 - 12:16 pm
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LOOK AT THAAAAAAAT FACE!!! THAT is a picture of HEALTH AND HAPPINESS!! Jackson, yoj are EXTRAORDINARY and so is your mom!!

I think that's so ething to rem d yourself of ths whole journe Katy.....JACKSON IS EXTRAORDINARY! From the ti e he vounced back so quickly from surgery, to bo ding up and down stairs, to romping in the snw like a marathon runner....this dog is EXTRAORDINARY!!
And EXTRAORDINARY dogs co tinue to surpass expectations and make their own rules!

I REALY li,e yor aproach to how you've analyzed the tests. In my "whatever it's worth opinion", I agree wholeheartedly with onl doing the tests that would "make a difference" in hlw you aproach things based on outcome. Yeah, down the road WHEN you make it to March, not "if", then maybe do the xrays because that makes sense then as to whether you would keep him on Luekeran or not. THE important thing to remember is Jackson is feeling fine!!

You REALLY passed on some valuable information about metronomics and using it only a year, etc.

As you recall and in large part because of the dialogue you and Michelle started on another thread, I did try to get Hapoy Hannah on Cytoxan, etc. after carboplatin treatments. At the two week mark she showed a uti or "something"...after weeks of putting her n antibiodics and then a bladder tap and...no...it's not related to cytoxan...then, but she wants to start the tests all over again...blah, blah, blah. Soooooo I decide to go with Luekeran....then ore and more delay..she wants repeat of tests...urine, etc....then...whatever my regular vet turned in...no...o, not good enough...needs to be sent out to a lab, not in house...blah, blah, blah...of course, the whole time offering to do the tests at their "Specialty" Center (ie for ten million dollars)!

So, I have yet to start her n anything since her Carboplatin in finished in May I did keep her on Piroxicam for amybe a month (?) during all this initialy.
Other than just a "general check-up" fro my regular vet, I have not do e any other testing. No good or bad, right or wrong, just the route she and I are taking.
I feel like I still have an "option" of Luekeran if "needed" and that gives me a little security vlanket. Again, just the route I've taken. Had their not many so many incredible challenges with proper communication, etc. with this onco (we've since "parted ways"), I would have co tinued on either the Cytoxan, or most likey the Luekeran, for sure.......I just kinda' let the "maybe this isn't meant to be" thought play a role. She hates all those test!

CONGRATULATIONS JACKSON AND KATY! You tw are a dynamic duo and are making HUGE co tiruti s to this site by sharing so much nowlege AND hope and i spiratin!!clap

FETCHON JACKSON, FETCHON !! We love you both!!! Sooooo hapoy for you!!

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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10 January 2014 - 12:27 pm
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MICHELLE! For whatever it's worth, I "let" Hapy Hannah go through one heatthinking, at the time, tjat was best fr her overall health...........and here we are. Also, because I've taken her to the same vet simce she was ten weeks old...well, let's just say this, othern than her original pupy shots and first year stuff, she's been vacci e free......and here we are. Guess it's back to the crap shoot again, darn if yo do, darn if you don't. Prior to this however, I still jave let my females go through one heat and never had any issues like this By the way, live in a rural area and, needless to say, my dogs are "i side" dogs and when they are out, I'm with themwinker

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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10 January 2014 - 1:13 pm
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Well hip! hip! HOOORRAAAAAY! Now that is the kind of update and attitude that makes us do the hoppy dance! What a great check-in with your team.

Now, a blog post about post-chemo metronomics and how long any dog/cat should be on it would be a good one to write. Any takers? ;) Haha, just kidding. I'm happy to add it to our "To Do" list if we don't get any volunteers. I think the longest I've heard of any dogs being on metronomics was 2 years, and that was Bart the Vizsla. It makes sense not to continue it forever, cancer cells DO get smarter and become acclimated to the environment in which you're trying to obliterate them. Ugh.

We're with you on the x-rays. We opted out of follow up ones for various reasons. And yep, that scenario you mentioned happened to us; we went in for heartworm meds one day and the vet persuaded us to do them, 17 months post-amp. We went out of that appointment with our world turned upside down. Later we were glad we did it though, if only because we now had the tools to fight cancer with metronomics (we never would have heard of it otherwise).

So kudos to you guys, we just LOVE LOVE LOVE the update and you both. And if you feel like sharing Jackson's news on our FB page please do! I would do it right now but I'm on our mobile and it's tricky.

xoxo

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Livermore, CA




Member Since:
18 October 2009
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10 January 2014 - 4:56 pm
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Any post with a picture of Jackson is a good post! But lots of good news too.

For us with mast cell cancer it wasn't x-rays but abdominal ultrasounds every three months.  Then we went to 6 months, then to annual. It was scary every time!  I thought about not doing them anymore because it wouldn’t change the course we were on but I agreed to one last one. Of course they saw suspicious lesions on her liver with that one.  Sigh.

But if you have a good reason like stopping metronomics then you should do the x-rays, not that a good reason makes it any less worrisome. 

Be sure and keep us posted when the time gets closer- the power of the Tripawd Nation sending good thoughts works wonders!

 

Karen

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Fort Wayne, IN
Member Since:
25 January 2013
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15 January 2014 - 3:51 pm
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How did I miss this post AND that face?  Cute!  Good news all around.  I do the x rays every 3 months.  It's just my nature...I have to know what I'm up against.  But you're right, it doesn't change anything.  When I asked my vet about discontinuing the metronomics after a year, her opinion was that Libby could develop a resistance to the drug just as you might with prolonged use of any medications.  She wasn't knowledgeable about metronomics actually causing mets with prolonged use.

Jackson rocks and so does his mommy!

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14

New Haven, CT
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27 December 2012
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30 January 2014 - 2:05 pm
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I recently requested a consult from Colo State U's vet school.  This is the second time I've used it and it's really amazing!  I put in my question in the AM and that night, actually when playing tug 'o war with J-fuzzface, they called.  I was on the phone with a lovely lady, a vet or onco I have to imagine, for about 10 min.  It wasn't rushed and she was actually concerned that her call interrupted our play time!  How cute!

I asked about how long they keep their dogs on metronomics .  I told her Jackson's history: in March it'll be 1 year.  He was on cytoxan for 5 months and has been on leukeran for the remaining time.  We haven't done chest xrays since March and then his lungs were clear.

Her advice was the complete opposite of our oncologist!  That's really frustrating.  The details and her advice:

B/C Jackson isn't presenting with lung mets and if we had chest xrays done in March and his lungs are clear, she'd keep him ON metronomics .  She presumes they have been doing their job, so why take him off?  If we did xrays and mets show, she'd discontinue the metronomics ....although she said, "well, they'd slow down the growth...".

I explained the differing opinions.  I explained that we really like and trust our onco.  She said, like we all say around here: do what your gut tells you.

So the one nebulous space where these 2 oncos overlapped was, if lung mets appear, metronomics are good and so is Palladia. 

It remains a toss up as to what to do before mets appear.

I'm beginning to lean toward keeping Jackson on metronomics beyond a year.  If we're lucky enough to reach 2 years, maybe take him off then.  So...maybe long term (ie, yearSSSS), metronomics isn't good, but for a year or two??  Your guess!

Oh this world of vet medicine...it's so tough.

HUGS

~ Katy & Jackson

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!





Member Since:
16 October 2012
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30 January 2014 - 9:04 pm
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Katy,

I agree with them.  I can't remember what dog was on the site that was on metronomics for 2 years and after that the vet took them off saying they were in remission.  I guess its up to you & what you think Mr J can handle.  I mean you are doing all the blood work etc.  I know I wish we had a choice to make but I know you will do what you think is right for J. 

Keep fighting Mr Winter Warrior

 

Hugs

Michelle & Angel Sassy

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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31 January 2014 - 6:49 am
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Michelle said

Katy,

I agree with them.  I can't remember what dog was on the site that was on metronomics for 2 years and after that the vet took them off saying they were in remission. 

Michelle & Angel Sassy

That was Bart the Vizsla.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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