Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hi,
I noticed yesterday Mali had a little red/pink spot on his nose, on the bottom of the right nare. It just looked like a little spot .. I didn't put anything on it (like antibotic oinment) as he'd just lick it off his nose. Today, its still the same size, but now its white and looks like a sore/lesion. Is this from the chemo??? Today is day 7 after the chemo treatment on 1/4. I didn't see any other little red spots or sores on his nose or inside the nares from what I could tell and a quick check of his gums looked okay. He's not bothering with it, other than it just gets lick alot when Mali licks his face after eating and drink or for whatever reason he has to like his muzzle/nose.
I'll call the onc Monday about it, but since its sunday only the ER people are there. I know chemo can cause sores/lesions on the mucus membranes and through the GI lining. I hope this is the only sore he has and there is nothing else in the GI track.
Also, he seems to be drinking more water than usual. He'll go outside to potty and then drink a fair amount of water from the outside bucket .. guess he likes really cold water! Doesn't drink that much water inside. Plus with the extra water intake, he'll want to go out to potty 4 or more times throughout the day (early morning and also right before bed, but not through the night). Mali usually would wait till noon to potty and then again at 6 pm and maybe 1 or 2 times in the evening. I guess its good he is drinking lots of water with the chemo treatments. He's also starting to feel a bit more independent and just looks at me when I bring him his water dish .. just a few licks to make me happy and then he'll get up to go out and he'll drink from the outside water bucket .. he'll also go to the kitchen to drink from the stainless 96 oz bowl that is there and it has some chlorphyll drops in it .. green tinted water. 🙂 Everyone drinks out of the
kitchen water bowl .. I can't put too much chlorphyll in the water as the cats dip their paw in the water and then lick the water off their paw .. so too much green and they will have tinted green paws ... really noticeable on the cats with white feet. 🙂
Mali's stool is formed but soft and towards the end it gets loose and jelly like (sorry for the graphic). He still goes once or twice every other day .. still not back on the pre surgery schedule of going 1 or 2 times a day of well formed solid stools.
I have begun to give him 1 fish oil cap at bedtime .. cap has 500 mg of DHA and 1 transfer factor plus pill at bedtime too. He's had no effects from these caps and I will also give him a pepcid with them .. mostly for the fish oil pill as I don't want him burping fish oil taste .. but I took the pills at night first and had no problem with that. One brand I got him, did cause me to burp the fish taste, so I'll just puncture the cap and empty it on the cats and in the dog's dinner until its gone.
I guess I'm just worried about the little sore/lesion on his nose and what it might mean and what can I do about it for him. Plus how do I know that his GI track does not have lesions/ulcers ??? I have reglan and flagyl here .. neither are for GI lesions/ulcers.
Thanks!
Keep an eye out for blood in his stool or severe diarrhea which can indicate intestinal damage from certain NSAIDs. Derramax tore Jerry up on the inside rather quickly, and Rimadyl is also known to cause GI trouble with long term use. Regarding the nose sore, I have no idea as we never did IV chemo with Jerry. Though most members would agree that we all tend to react a bit alarmingly to every little thing we notice different about our cancer hero pups!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Definitely keep an eye out for GI problems while on the Deramax... If there are any problems (like blood in stool), then your vet may either change to another NSAID that has less GI side effects (like meloxicam), or perhaps add sucralfate (Carafate) which is used to treat or prevent ulcers.
Let us know what the vet says about the sore on Mali's nose. I know that in our human patients undergoing chemo, some can develop a mucositis, ulcers, or even oral thrush (a fungal infection). Not sure if that is also common in dogs though... but it's always better to be safe than sorry, and consult with a vet whenever you're worried. Hope it turns out to be nothing too serious!!!
Angel Jake's Mom
Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!
Hi Admin,
Right now Mali is not on any pain meds. Also, when he did go potty earlier today and yesterday, there was no blood that I could see (no red blood or black stools).
I just worry that the nose might be the tip of the iceberg if he is getting sores/ulcers internally. 🙁
I know .. I can't help but worry over him though. Probably before the OS dx, I would not of worried like this over the sore on his nose. I would have noticed it and watched it, but not be worried and wondering if there are more that I can't see.
It's hard not to worry. I find myself holding my breath sometimes if I see him hopping and notice if he slips on the tile or hits one of his rear leg's hock on the step when going out the door. Plus the other night when the cat startled him and he went to jump up but ended up falling over as he must of forgot he only has one front leg now, it took everything I could not to go run over to him and coddle him and tell him it was okay that he tipped over a little bit.
Don said it seems Mali is weak today .. day 6 post chemo .. maybe that is why he's hopping slower/moving slower. Maybe just part of the chemo effects ... I will call his onc in the morning, but there is a difference to how he was doing better daily with moving and today. The onc will probably just say .. yes this is the time they get listless and tired from chemo ..
Shouldn't the onc do blood work around now? Mali is not scheduled for bloodwork until his next scheduled chemo treatment (1/26). How will they know how low his white cell count gets mid treatment and how much it recovered prior to the next treatment??
sigh .... 
Hi Mali's mum,
My oncologist did not regularly schedule bloodwork, but then asked him to come in if he was lethargic. Most dogs on this site seem to have regularly scheduled blood tests, which seems a better idea to me. It was not that obvious that my dog was lethargic, but it turned out that his cell counts and neutrophils were extremely low and they immediately put him on an antiobiotic (not sure that was a good idea either, but anyway). That was a bad way of finding out – I was about to head out of town for 2 days when the oncologist's nurse suggested I get his counts tested. After that, I made sure the blood was tested.
It was easier to converse with a vet than the oncologist about these day to day things, but I also had to given I was 3 hr away from the onco then. (Better than 15 hr from the onco as of Sept.) Can you get your vet's assistance with the day to day worries and things like having blood tested between chemo periods?
For some forms of chemo the low point (nadir) is 5 to 7 days, e.g., with Doxyrubin (Adriamycin). With Carboplatin, I thought the low point tends to be closer to 14 days and sometimes later (get someone with a dog on carbo to give more info here). So Mali should not really be that low yet given he is on carbo.
Hi Christine
I can't help you at all since Cemil didn't have any chemo, but I'm here praying for and supporting you and Mali. I know that I worry about things now that before, I would have noticed but not given much more thought to. That seems to be a change that happens in us. To counteract...is anything positive going on?
Mary
Cemil and mom Mary, Mujde and Radzi….appreciating and enjoying Today
Emily's white blood cell count dropped around day 7 and again around day 21 so her chemo was scheduled for every 25 days. We just let her rest and kept her away from other dogs except our own during those times.
We didn't have any problems with sores like you described. I guess you could use neosporin and see if it gets better,
Sorry this is not helpful. I hope Mali feels more energetic soon.
Debra & Angel Emily
Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.
A possiblity is papilloma virus. Codie Rae went through a bad case when she was young. It is relatively harmless, and when it appears it can be an indicator of a weakened immune system. If it is papilloma a vet can easily diagnose it based on appearance. You can find quite a few internet reference on papilloma virus.
Ralph
chrisk101 said:
Hi Admin ... Shouldn't the onc do blood work around now? How will they know how low his white cell count gets...
Sorry, wish I could answer your questions, but I am no vet and we never did IV chemo with Jerry. Hopefuly others can provide better feedback regarding that.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Mali,
Most oncologists will recommend a CBC after day 7 of chemo and if normal then just before the next chemo is given (21 days). If the dog has no issues after 1 or 2 doses then we usually just do the CBC every 21 days.
I have not seen sores from carboplatin but anything is possible! I would recommend a CBC if he is lethargic.
Pam
Any news back from your vets today about what's going on with Mali? I've been thinking about you guys all day!!!
Angel Jake's Mom
Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!
Hi,
Well, I spoke to the oncology nurse and she said carboplatin would not cause the sore (now there is another one starting on his nose) on his nose. She said that he must of fallen .. no he did not as I actually do watch him .. heck I even watch him while he is sleeping. Only time I don't is when I sleep from 3:00 am to about 5:00 am .. and he is sound asleep and then Don is up at 5:00 and he sort of watches him while he gets ready for work. But since Don turns on all the lights in the house as he believes the light bulbs put off some heat and lately the house has been 60 F in the mornings .. I think its perfect but that's just me. Mali has been waking up because of the lights being on (he is like me, we like it cool, dark and quiet for sleeping!) and then I get up and let him out to potty and drink water. Then Don is usually dressing or about to leave for work and I reset the coffee maker and turn everything off and we go back to bed until 8:00 am.
I said one of the side effects is GI and ulcers in the GI tract .. yes, but not common .. okay, but it still can happen! I despise the nurse!!! Then she said to put some ointment on his nose .. I said it will be licked off the moment I put it on as he licks his nose all the time and if there is something on, for sure he's going lick it off his nose. Then said oh .. his nose, I thought muzzle .. oh gawd!! I said nose how many times??? I even said nares .. deep breathes ..
I said I'd call his regular dr to ask about it, and just before we ended the conversation she said its not from his chemo .. okay whatever .. maybe its not, but apparently she's clueless. 🙁
I left word with his regular vet but I was at school tonight and missed her call back so I'll call again in the morning.
The new spot is just a tiny little red spot right now. The other sore, doesn't look like its any worse. Still there .. still looks the same.
Plus I noticed Mali's incision site seems red/pinkish in some places. It is healed so I don't know .. but could be infection? I put anamax on it and then a shirt so he can't like the ointment off. It that common to for the site to get infected later on? Just seems red in spots .. no fluid under the skin and he doesn't care about me touching it ..
Mali still seems weak .. still seems tired and moves slowly compared to pre-chemo. Can the chemo react to his internal surgical healing? I guess it could as it targets fast growing cells and healing involves fast growing cells, plus if his white count is low .. maybe infection?? His chemo started 17 days after his surgery.
Should I have my regular vet do Mali's CBC panel and just fax it to the onc?? When I talk with the nurse, all she can say is 'that is a normal reaction' or 'that is not usually a side effect of carbo' .. ugh.
Am I going nuts over nothing or could this be something going on? I'm going to take Mali's temp later tonight. He just finished dinner and I'm almost ready for our dinner (Don & I) .. so after dinner I'll check him.
Christine
PS .. sorry so late to post. School has started again and my Monday schedule is hectic. Class from 10:30 am to 8:30 pm. When I get home I feed the dogs and start dinner for Don and I. Monday is the worst day for this semester (it will be like this till mid May).
chrisk101 said:
I left word with his regular vet but I was at school tonight and missed her call back so I'll call again in the morning.
Plus I noticed Mali's incision site seems red/pinkish in some places. It is healed so I don't know .. but could be infection? I put anamax on it and then a shirt so he can't like the ointment off. It that common to for the site to get infected later on?
Mali still seems weak .. still seems tired and moves slowly compared to pre-chemo. Can the chemo react to his internal surgical healing?
Am I going nuts over nothing or could this be something going on?
Christine, I think you have every right to worry, but do your best to breathe so that Mali won't be too worried about you OK?
About the sores…I think you're right in calling the vet. Is there any way to take a photo of the sores and email them so the vet can see them without you having to actually take him in? Or, you could even post them here to see if anyone has any ideas for you.
About the incision…well, they do take time to heal. If the incision isn't leaking I wouldn't worry. But then again I'm no vet so please take that for what it is OK?
As far as we've seen with chemo effects, yes, anything is possible. Dogs can get lethargic during and after chemo, and infections do happen. If you find that you don't feel things are right with Mali, it will do you a world of good to take him in for a vet visit. Even if it's nothing it may help you sleep better.
Hang in there, this won't last forever. Hope this was somewhat of a help. Keep us posted OK?
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi Mali's mom,
You kinda sound like my mom did when we had to deal with the oncologist this summer. She was VERY expensive but we only got to speak with the "oncologist's nurse" (who appeared to be about 18 yrs old, no offense to 18 yrs old tripawd owners) and they did some things -quite a few things - that were a bit contrary to the norm for this website. Okay, so a nurse won't necessarily know what metronomics is (that IS perfectly understandable) but then you expect her to be really good with the 'hands on' things, dontcha? Well, after she got the doxyrubin in Tazzie's vein, despite reassurances that such a thing could never ever happen because she would monitor him so very closely, well, you get the idea. I don't know what to say, other than what other people here told me: we are paying for their children and their children's children to attend a nice private college, so you should be able to talk to the oncologist directly.
Having said that, do you have a choice in oncologists (we didn't but maybe you do)? IF so, exercise that choice. Second, why don't you go through your vet? Then your vet can talk to the oncologist, "Dr. to Dr". It might not make much difference (I don't think I got all the information relayed through my vet). But you need to find something to alleviate the stress facing you and Mali. My vet had the same communication problems with the oncologist, but then I realized it was not me. Of course I wish I had a choice, but doggy oncologists do not occur on every block or even in every city or every province (or even in every country!).
Yes .. the posts were helpful ..
I could ask my vet for another onc referral, but the one I have is considered extremely good and knowledgeable. I did mention to my vet that the onc's nurse appears to be an insensitive b***h. My vet said to let it be as that is how some people are, esp. those that deal with cancer patients. Plus Mali likes it at this onc's office and is used to it and her to some extent. I don't want to stress him by going to a new onc, new people, etc.
I can ask my vet to be the go between. But if I talk to the onc, she is great. Just her nurse is a B! But she is good at doing her job and is really good with the animals, she seems really sensitive to them, not to the owners though. (I was not being demanding when talking with her today, just asking her about it and even said with her experience with seeing other patients .. etc.)
I'll call my vet tomorrow as I have no school tomorrow and see what she says about doing the blood work and relaying it to the onc. If she says to bring Mali in, then off we go and she can check his incision site too.
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