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Lung Mets After the Osteosarcoma Vaccine: Any Advice?
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5 August 2018 - 11:55 am
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Hi ! Is anyone out there enrolled in an osteosarcoma vaccine trial? What was your experience? We were encouraged and blessed to be part of this research trial in Texas that gives hope not only to our beloved dogs but humans too! Caesar was diagnosed with osteosarcoma 12/2017. He had his back left leg amputated 12/28/17 and completed 5 rounds of Carboplatin 1/8/18-4/25/18. We entered the OSA vaccine trial 5/2018.  Caesar just completed three osteosarcoma vaccines as of 7/5/18 and did well over all but sadly was diagnosed with lung metastasis end trial 7/24/18. We are devastated but trying to remain hopeful that the vaccine will still offer help. Has anyone been diagnosed with lung metastasis post vaccine? What did you do next? Did you seen benefit from the vaccine after mets? What are our options?  We don’t want to pursue harsh chemotherapy with doxorubicin. Our last dog Mugsy went into heart failure from this medication and died. At this time Caesar looks amazing and so we have opted to observe and treat with love and all the yummy food possible so to allow his time left to be enjoyable and happy…however we would be interested to hear what our fellow tripawds are doing elsewhere!

Thank You !

The Rainbow Bridge

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5 August 2018 - 12:17 pm
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Hello Caesar and family, welcome. We are sorry that those mean mets came on so soon after Caesar started the trial, but hopefully it can offer some sort of protection to keep them from growing. 

Has anyone been diagnosed with lung metastasis post vaccine? What did you do next? Did you seen benefit from the vaccine after mets? What are our options?

Honestly the vaccine is so new, that we aren’t aware of anyone who has developed mets during or immediately after participating. This also may be in part to the confidentiality clause that participants are bound to while they are in the study. Perhaps we just haven’t heard from them yet.

What did your oncologist suggest, other than doxorubicin? I haven’t heard of that as a treatment post-metastasis, usually a course of Palladia is suggested, along with metronomics . If your onco thinks doxorubicin is the way to go, keep in mind that all dogs are different and Caesar may respond totally differently to it, in a good way of course. 

If you click on this metronomics link you’ll see lots of suggestions for managing those nasty mets, we try to include them as we hear about new methods.

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5 August 2018 - 3:25 pm
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OMD! Ceasar’s avatar  picture  is deeeelightful!  That guy has personality  shining through so brightly, he makes us all grin ear ro ear!.

Don’t  have any  knowledge per se egarding  your  specific  situation. Jerry has given you some fairly “safe” options that aren’t  jnvasive or intrusive  in Ceasar’s quality.   That doesn’t  mean they don’t  have potential  side effects, but they manageable, or the meds can be stopped.

Bur what I can tell you, is clearly  Ceasar is symptom free and that is HUGE!!!  He is being his happy self and not paying any attention  whatsoever  to what the xrays show!!!  Even if symptoms  start to show, there are still wonderful  optio s you have for extended  quality  time.  My Happy Hannah  got some good extended quality  time (and this was even after outward symptoms) with some Prednisone   and some  low dose Tramadol. 

You have  the right attitude…make every day count!!  Don’t  waste one second  letting that piece of poopicon_png disease interfere with the blissful days you have ahead!  Be More Dog !

I recently  communicated  with a Vet on the “outward behavior” of my dog, which was far more positive and upliftiting than what the “clinical tests” showed.  She said that my assessment  of his sttitude, engagement  with life, etc, told her far  more about what was going  on with him than the test results.

So point being, Ceasar is telling you categorically that all is well in his world, regardless  what those ole xrays show!  

Okay, this is just a small HINT!  We would loooove to see mpre PICTURES, PICTURES, PICTURES of this handsome fella’!   PICTURES!!!  PLEASE, PICTURES!!!  Okay, maybe that was more than just a “hint”!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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9 August 2018 - 7:43 am
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we are in the boat– mets discovered during the vaccine. diagnosed 10/10/17, radiation and chemo until amputation was the only path to go on 3/7/18 and then started the vaccine in May. we continued with it knowing there was one met and I reluctantly started palladia as I was told my dog would not survive long without it. we are symptom free, I am giving low doses of palladia after a first dose that was very hard on her. doing supplements and trying to take it day by day. 

would love to hear how your dog is doing post vaccine. 

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5 October 2018 - 7:18 am
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Similar enough situation here.  Utley the goldendoodle was diagnosed with left forelimb osteosarcoma and amputated on March 3.  Six rounds of chemo and he was doing very well.  Great spirit;  nice energy and at Drs’ suggestion, we started the osteo “vaccine” (COV).  He tolerated the first two rounds OK, but when we presented for the third and final round last week, we showed the doc a lump that had developed on the back of his neck.

This was determined to be a sarcoma, which he called “atypical”.  Worse, the lung X-ray revealed 3 small lesions.  So the osteosarcoma has returned and we are very sad.   We started him on Palladia, 60 mg 3x/week.

He has been lethargic for the past couple weeks, and even more so with the Palladia.  We want his declining weeks/months to be happy.   He fought so hard all year and deserves this.  Is there any alternative to the palladia?  any other thoughts?

I only posted one other time, but this board and many of the articles have been extremely helpful and comforting.  Thank you.

The Rainbow Bridge

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5 October 2018 - 10:29 am
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bunnut said

He has been lethargic for the past couple weeks, and even more so with the Palladia.  We want his declining weeks/months to be happy.   He fought so hard all year and deserves this.  Is there any alternative to the palladia?  any other thoughts?

I only posted one other time, but this board and many of the articles have been extremely helpful and comforting.  Thank you.  

I’m sad to read about Utley, my heart goes out to you, this is a tough time and I’m glad that the community is here for you. Stay strong, take things day by day and know that Utley might be tired but he’s still the same boy and he still just wants you to be happy. 

Have you seen our Forum posts about metronomics and life after metastasis? We try to keep track of options for dealing with lung mets in that topic so you may want to check it out for options that you can talk about with Utley’s oncologist.

Keep us posted and be sure to start a new topic about his situation so we can help you OK?

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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5 October 2018 - 11:42 am
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Just want to send some extra positive energy to handsome Utley.   

As Jerry said, Utley may be tired (which, thankfully,  is not “painful”),  but he still can enjoy soaking up all that loving  and spoiling  that he’s  getting from you. 

My Happy Hannah  was also tired with her mets.  When her breathing pattern changed , she was put on Prednisone   and that seemed to help.  And yes, metronomics is definitely  something  to check out.  The protocol  almost has no side effects as far as impacting the day to day quality.   Sometimes  UTI can develop, so you would want to make sure Utley is getting plenty  of fluids to keep his kidneys “flushed “. 

In the meantime  continue  to make every moment the best moment ever for Utley!!   Let NOTHING rob you of your time together!  Utley doesn’t  give a rat’s butt about any ole xrays.  Nothing jas changed in Utley’s world!  Well, other than he’s  getring more “junk food” than ever bedore!    Make sure Utley gets special “forbidden” treats, like ice cream every day…maybe even three times a day!!  Take lots of pictures and…hint…we would love to see them!

Hugs 

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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8 October 2018 - 12:25 pm
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So Utley has had five doses of Palladia — unfortunately, his oncology vet is not available to speak to us until Wednesday.  His nurse was helpful but still . . .  He has been verrry lethargic, with a reluctance to ambulate, over that time and likely even prior.  We have had to somewhat drag him to go outside.  This is not our boy!  So the question is whether to discontinue the Palladia with the notion that this is mostly an unwelcome side effect.  Or is it still doing more good than harm. 

The Rainbow Bridge

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8 October 2018 - 7:17 pm
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Poor Utley! I’m so sorry. I have heard of this side effect happening to other dogs, it’s not at all uncommon unfortunately. What did the nurse recommend? Is there anything like an anti-nausea Rx that may be able to help?

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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8 October 2018 - 10:34 pm
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I know you mentioned  Utley was feeling tired BEFORE he started the Palladia,  is that right?  And now he’s  even more lethargic?

Just wondering if  you could skip some doses to see if  any of his energy comes back, at least  to the level of was before the Palladia?  Or maybe  lower doses?  Your Onco can advise.   IF the Palladia is zapping him of his energy to the point  it’s  interfering  with his quailty, then you can make a determination  of whether to continue  or not.

Even though Utley  is very low energy right  now, is he engaged and alert?  Still showing tail wags?  Eating?  Is he enjoying tummy rubs  and lounging on the sofa?

Hugs 

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too !

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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12 October 2018 - 7:39 pm
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i stopped the palladia– it made my girl so lethargic and her quality of life diminished. right now she is more of a hobbler than a hopper, she takes prednisone which helped a lot for 1-2 months but now things are slowing down…may get a cart for her front limb as the pressure from nyc sidewalks seems to be too much. the oncologist told me my time is limited, when I said I hope to have her for christmas, he told me that was “highly unlikely” which is 2 months from now. hard to think of life without her, so I just enjoy what time I do have….I am grateful to this forum for advice and input on how to manage things when you know that things are pointing to the end. she has 3 nodules in her lungs now. still wags her tail, eats a ton and is affectionate. i just look into her eyes and tell her i am here 

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13 October 2018 - 10:48 am
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Sweet friends 🌸

My Eurydice did not do the trial but she developed lung mets, we had the most marvellous 6 1/2 months after that was spotted.

Just wanted to share our experience with you.

My girl did metronomics for a few months after Carboplatin was concluded.

When we found lung mets, she did 4 sessions of Doxorubicin, our oncologist was hopeful that could stop or at least slow down size of existing mets and hopefully no new ones would develop.

Sadly this wasn’t the case so we did Palladia briefly but it didn’t feel right for us so we stopped and switched to holistic treatments instead, ie osteopathy, acunpuncture, mesotherapy and natural supplements.

When mets got seriously large and she became very lethargic we followed a cortisone and diuretics (to dry the liquid in the lungs) treatment and that proved to be a miracle treatment as she became herself and highly energetic virtually overnight. 

Whichever stage each of your adored pups may be in right now please be sure it is not the end.

There are still options available (conventional and alternative medicine) which will help them feeling active and happy with their loving pawrents.

Please check with your oncologists and consider seeing holistic vets too, for us, at this point I just felt it was worth exploring all options to ensure my baby was happy and “well”.

Wishing you all the best and sending hugs and cuddles to all 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

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17 October 2018 - 1:28 pm
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Thank you to everyone who advised and commented on Utley.  When I finally spoke with his oncologist (2 days after my last post), Utley was worse, and what seemed to be extreme lethargy and reluctance to walk was explained to me to be a “thickening of the limbs” and a very painful side effect of the recurrence of his osteosarcoma.  The last three days of his life was spent lying in our kitchen, mostly hand fed and being carried out to do his business.   The last day (10/12) he was unable to relieve himself at all.

We used Lap of Love to come into our home, and Dr. Jessica was awesome.   

I have questions on how this all went so badly so quickly, and doubts on of all the decisions that we made over the past 8 or 9 months, but am trying to focus my energies on remembering our sweet boy the way he was before this damn cancer came back.

Is it possible to donate his unused Rx’s?  Love to all.

The Rainbow Bridge

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17 October 2018 - 2:31 pm
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Ohhh I am so sorry, my heart aches for you. Utley fought so hard, and you gave it everything you had. Cancer is so mean. I’m really sorry.

It sounds like he may have had hypertrophic osteopathy? Poor guy. Only a few dogs have dealt with it here, and yes, it’s extremely painful.

Right now you are hurting and it’s human nature to second guess ourselves. The more you can focus on Utley before the cancer, and honor the good times you shared, the better your broken heart can heal. If it helps, try sharing his life story with us in Coping with Loss or even Shout Outs. Utley was a great dog who was so much more than the cancer. We would love to honor his legacy with you.

Regarding the unused medication: that is such a sweet thing to think about right now. There’s no rush, but when you are ready, your vet will be able to refer you to a group that can take the medications. Sending medications to non-vets is illegal so we don’t allow it in our Angel Exchange.

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17 October 2018 - 3:10 pm
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Thank you, Jerry for your great advice and kind words.  I just read up on H.O. (until my brain fogged) and I’m certain you are correct.  I’m ready to head home but our house is so-o-o-o quiet now.

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