Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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So, I emailed a bunch of different places asking about clinical trials and I actually got a call from UPenn today about a trial for Palladia (which is what we were originally going to opt for at the recommendation of our vet). The woman said they may have 1 opening left for a clinical trial for Palladia! Which is what our vet suggested if we didn't do chemo. But lately I've been researching a more holistic approach and thought I had decided to maybe just go that route completely. We actually have an appt with a Holistic vet on Wed.
If she would have called three days ago I would have never hesitated, but now it throws me for another loop and has me researching again. The only thing is, we wouldn't be able to give her any holistic products at all. So now I'm wondering if she would have a better chance with just Palladia (trial is a commitment for a year, all expenses paid, which would be amazing and a blessing for us) or just holistic methods (ie. acupuncture, herbs, raw diet).
I'm so torn! I did called an oncologist the holistic vet recommended to me over the phone and the oncologist gave me a rough estimate of $4200 for just the chemo and blood panels. This does not included recheck fees of $50-$100 each or additional medications prescribed. This is one of the highest estimates that I have come across researching what others have paid. It's well beyond what we can afford and I don't think carecredit would raise my limit (I have to call and check) that much because I had major dental work done recently and am trying to pay that as well as the amputation and everything else. And we won't qualify for an financial programs because we have care credit (read all of their stipulations and it seems that if you can get care credit, you can't get help.
So, this is where we are at today...
I have just been reading so many posts on here about dogs only receiving holistic care after amputation and forgoing any chemo options and living past 2+ years. I know every dog is different but it gives me hope and some relief since holistic options are more cost effective for us.
I just hate when you make up your mind and then a wrench is thrown in your plan. Do I do the Palladia and NOTHING else? Or do I stick with the holistic approach that I have decided on this morning before the UPenn call? I'm so torn. Completely paid for would be nice (Treatment, labs, xrays, everything!) but, I would be limiting all other treatment plans. And who knows....I might not even get in! She said the other family is still deciding so I have a few days to make my decision and it's not definite regardless.
So I guess my question is...what would you do? Or what have you done if you've gone with one of the two approaches. It's osteo so there's no guarantee with the Palladia, but then again there is no guarantee with anything in life. Thanks in advance! 
Good for you for being so proactive!! "Ya' done done good kid"!
The possibility of longevity overtakes us all! It even so et k ws distracts js from other key factors in TRYING.....and oh hl we all try...to make THE best decision that gives quality and longevity!
IF we can sort of put time frames aside for a moment (i know, crazy concept, huh?), it helps us beco e more aligned with focusing on QUALITY...for a moment anyway!!
**How dkes Jilly nandke vet visits? Is she eager or fearful?
**How does she handle car rides?
**As best you can, would you be able to not let whatever treatment you select become your main focus. I guess I'm grying to say, whether it's a wee k ly acupuncture or regular visit to Penn State, can you put that "appointment" behind you each time and jump right back into the lresent with Jilly....with Jilly who is n ot worrying about a thing? I'm still probably clear as mud!!
**Which "decision" do you feel intuitively would prevent you from second guessing the most? Yeah, I made an "assumption" one feels better to you already. And yeah, second guessing is what most of us humans do...and then move on n pretty quickly because it's a waste of energy!
I know youve all heard us say this in one form or another, but it is absolutely crucial to realize (in my opinion), thst whatever.path we chose, it's all.pretty much a crap shoot! Even though "statistics" may tend to make us lean one way or another, there are ALWAYS the exceptions for longevity and even the cure...and, then the opposite also. I can ho estly say that, at the time, statistics for carboplatin and that I could stop anytime if she had side effects, pushed me towards going that route...at the time! I've now been on the site long enough to know that Happy Hannah and I were lucky (relatively speaking), in that she was on the "higher" end of the statistics...certainly not the highest....and certainly not the lowest. Crap shoot? Maybe.
Many dogs who go with chemo don't even get to complete the protocol because of that crap disease. Many dogs who do no chemo get very little time after amputation.
Many dogs who go with chemo get great extended time! .Many dogs who do no chemo get great extended time! And the same applies to going the holistic route or a combo!
Sooooo whatever route you take has to "f eel right" in YOUR gut.....not mine or anyone else's.....jist what feels right to you a d to Jill h! Yeah, talk it over with Jillh...seriously. Because it was just Happy Hannah and myself, we made every decision "together". I at first (before I found this site), was opposed to amputation. As her leg pain got worse, she let me know in no uncertain terms she was NOT ready to leave this earth and she had a lot of living to do! Proceeded with the amputation and she and I had the most spectacularly glorious one year and two months imaginable!!
You've done a stellar job of analyzing your own personal situation with great validity. You will make the right decision, because any decision made out of love is the right decision!!
Sending you lpve and never ending support!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
benny55 said
Good for you for being so proactive!! "Ya' done done good kid"!The possibility of longevity overtakes us all! It even so et k ws distracts js from other key factors in TRYING.....and oh hl we all try...to make THE best decision that gives quality and longevity!
IF we can sort of put time frames aside for a moment (i know, crazy concept, huh?), it helps us beco e more aligned with focusing on QUALITY...for a moment anyway!!
**How dkes Jilly nandke vet visits? Is she eager or fearful?
**How does she handle car rides?
**As best you can, would you be able to not let whatever treatment you select become your main focus. I guess I'm grying to say, whether it's a wee k ly acupuncture or regular visit to Penn State, can you put that "appointment" behind you each time and jump right back into the lresent with Jilly....with Jilly who is n ot worrying about a thing? I'm still probably clear as mud!!
**Which "decision" do you feel intuitively would prevent you from second guessing the most? Yeah, I made an "assumption" one feels better to you already. And yeah, second guessing is what most of us humans do...and then move on n pretty quickly because it's a waste of energy!I know youve all heard us say this in one form or another, but it is absolutely crucial to realize (in my opinion), thst whatever.path we chose, it's all.pretty much a crap shoot! Even though "statistics" may tend to make us lean one way or another, there are ALWAYS the exceptions for longevity and even the cure...and, then the opposite also. I can ho estly say that, at the time, statistics for carboplatin and that I could stop anytime if she had side effects, pushed me towards going that route...at the time! I've now been on the site long enough to know that Happy Hannah and I were lucky (relatively speaking), in that she was on the "higher" end of the statistics...certainly not the highest....and certainly not the lowest. Crap shoot? Maybe.
Many dogs who go with chemo don't even get to complete the protocol because of that crap disease. Many dogs who do no chemo get very little time after amputation.
Many dogs who go with chemo get great extended time! .Many dogs who do no chemo get great extended time! And the same applies to going the holistic route or a combo!
Sooooo whatever route you take has to "f eel right" in YOUR gut.....not mine or anyone else's.....jist what feels right to you a d to Jill h! Yeah, talk it over with Jillh...seriously. Because it was just Happy Hannah and myself, we made every decision "together". I at first (before I found this site), was opposed to amputation. As her leg pain got worse, she let me know in no uncertain terms she was NOT ready to leave this earth and she had a lot of living to do! Proceeded with the amputation and she and I had the most spectacularly glorious one year and two months imaginable!!
You've done a stellar job of analyzing your own personal situation with great validity. You will make the right decision, because any decision made out of love is the right decision!!
Sending you lpve and never ending support!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Thank you so much Sally! Your words are always so helpful to me! I'm excited to go to the holistic route and am a little leery with the Palladia because I won't be able to use anything with it. I don't like giving up control if that makes sense. However, I know that this is a great opportunity. Ugghh...so frustrating. And to answer your questions...She loves car rides, doesn't mind the vet (although we haven't been back since they stole her leg! 
so that may change!) and as for the main focus thing, I think once I have a plan in place, I should be good. It's just so hard right now because I feel like I'm sitting around wasting time even though I already have her appts in place. I have to look more into the trial to see if I can give her NOTHING at all or just nothing that would effect the tumors that may occur. But I also like the idea of going all natural and herbal and just doing everything low key and relaxing. I know I would enjoy that if it were me...but I would also want to fight like hell. I'm just so indecisive. If only life were easy!
Kim
Hi Kim,
Do you have an estimate of what the holistic route will cost and if there are further blood tests or xrays required? I know it's hard making this type of decision.
Wishing you sudden clarity.
Kerren
kazann said
Hi Kim,Do you have an estimate of what the holistic route will cost and if there are further blood tests or xrays required? I know it's hard making this type of decision.
Wishing you sudden clarity.
Kerren
Hi Kerren!
The initial consult is $129. It's an hour consult and they help you plan out food, supplements, herbs, and go over all of her charts to see what our next route should be. They also offered to take out her staples for me (our appt for that is thursday with our other vet) which was nice but I know her vet wants to see her back to check everything which I get. They said the first course of acupuncture is $140 I think (couldn't find a pen to write down all the info). It's a lot because they need to find out where her targeted spots are or something like that. Then it's like $75 plus an extra $45 for the office visit each time and they see her back once a week for the first two or three weeks and then it spans out after that depending on what she needs if we go the acupuncture route.
I'm guessing then it's the cost of food and supplements. It still doesn't sound like it will be cheap, but definitely a lot cheaper than chemo.
And as for blood work and xrays, I'm not sure about that. I only asked the questions I could think of off the top of my head since it was a last minute thought to even call but I am adding that to my long list of questions for when I go in Wed! LOL And then I'll update! I'm just trying to stay optimistic about the whole thing which is super hard!
Kim
I'm all for the holistic approach. If I have to ever do this again with a dog and I hope that I dont I would do the exact same thing over again. We treated my dog Marshall with homeopathic remedies and some other holistic things and we got to 12 months post amputation 13 months post diagnosis until it showed up in his lungs. That year was quality time with no side effects. Good luck!
marshallsmom13 said
I'm all for the holistic approach. If I have to ever do this again with a dog and I hope that I dont I would do the exact same thing over again. We treated my dog Marshall with homeopathic remedies and some other holistic things and we got to 12 months post amputation 13 months post diagnosis until it showed up in his lungs. That year was quality time with no side effects. Good luck!
If you don't mind my asking, what all did you do holistically? I'm trying to get my list ready for the holistic vet for things I would like to try.
How is Marshall? I just stalked your posts to find out what is going on. Is he doing any better? Any word on the vet front? I'm so sad for you right now. 
I hope it's not time....I can't imagine what you are going through but just know that we are sending positive vibes your way.
Kim, you are doing a BRILLIANT job of staying optimistic! That is the ONLY way to continue forward! Every now and then a dog like BART survivies for YEARS, or a dog like PUG MAGGIE, who was given a "time frame" of just several months, played full out for another four years! And Jilly could be one of those dogs!
Yeah, you will feel more at peace once you start a plan and stick to it. It is a shame that these trials don't alllow any complimentary therapies...but I guess it could "muddy the waters,".in their scientific minds.
I'm thinking that the holistic approach wouldn't require as much blood work, xrays, etc. and, as you say, appears to be more relaxing and low key.
Look forward to your next update.
As always, hugs to Jilly and a big group hug to you from all of us!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
You really have to do what's in your heart but the logical side of me says that anyone in this situation should talk to the experts for the treatments you're considering before you make a decision. It's the only way to get enough information to be informed and comfortable with your choice.
Don't look at it as wasting time while doing your research, look at it as creating your strategy for fighting cancer. Every battle needs a plan.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Marshall is under the care of Dr. Charles Loops for his homeopathic remedies. He managed Heckla Lava, Sulfur, Carscinoscin, Kali Carb and Cell Salts. We also give him K-9 Immunity Plus, artemisinin , Artemix, Butyrex, Brewers yeast with garlic, salmon oil now flax oil and a grain free diet. He has always been on a grain free diet except for his first few weeks after birth. I feel like I'm forgetting something. He has never had any bad side effects from any of these. If you need more info let me know. I really recommend Dr. Loops. I was missing one he was on Metacam since his amputation until he recently switched to prednisone. Using these remembers he kicked he kicked this ugly disease in its face for a good year and was able to do everything he loved without limitation. The disease is fighting back now but apparently he is still trying to kick it in its face. Good luck! Do what you feel is best for your dog. My regular vet didn't like my decision to not do chemo but for marshall I knew it wasn't the right choice. He prob would have handled it fine bc lots of dogs do but I had a list of reasons why I wanted to try something else. Dr. Loops has really good success treating this. He is in NC but does most of his consults over the phone.
benny55 said
Kim, you are doing a BRILLIANT job of staying optimistic! That is the ONLY way to continue forward! Every now and then a dog like BART survivies for YEARS, or a dog like PUG MAGGIE, who was given a "time frame" of just several months, played full out for another four years! And Jilly could be one of those dogs!Yeah, you will feel more at peace once you start a plan and stick to it. It is a shame that these trials don't alllow any complimentary therapies...but I guess it could "muddy the waters,".in their scientific minds.
I'm thinking that the holistic approach wouldn't require as much blood work, xrays, etc. and, as you say, appears to be more relaxing and low key.
Look forward to your next update.
As always, hugs to Jilly and a big group hug to you from all of us!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Always awesome with your words of wisdom! I really hope she is one of those dogs that miraculously beats the odds. Wishful thinking can't hurt!
jerry said
You really have to do what's in your heart but the logical side of me says that anyone in this situation should talk to the experts for the treatments you're considering before you make a decision. It's the only way to get enough information to be informed and comfortable with your choice.
Don't look at it as wasting time while doing your research, look at it as creating your strategy for fighting cancer. Every battle needs a plan.
Yea...that is what I'm going to do. We have the holistic vet appt today so we shall see what she says and then I'll probably wind up calling UPenn back for some more info. I actually didn't research at all yesterday because it was getting me so depressed and overwhelmed and it was really nice to take a step away and just enjoy the day. Plus it was super nice out....too nice to be depressed!
marshallsmom13 said
Marshall is under the care of Dr. Charles Loops for his homeopathic remedies. He managed Heckla Lava, Sulfur, Carscinoscin, Kali Carb and Cell Salts. We also give him K-9 Immunity Plus, artemisinin , Artemix, Butyrex, Brewers yeast with garlic, salmon oil now flax oil and a grain free diet. He has always been on a grain free diet except for his first few weeks after birth. I feel like I'm forgetting something. He has never had any bad side effects from any of these. If you need more info let me know. I really recommend Dr. Loops. I was missing one he was on Metacam since his amputation until he recently switched to prednisone. Using these remembers he kicked he kicked this ugly disease in its face for a good year and was able to do everything he loved without limitation. The disease is fighting back now but apparently he is still trying to kick it in its face. Good luck! Do what you feel is best for your dog. My regular vet didn't like my decision to not do chemo but for marshall I knew it wasn't the right choice. He prob would have handled it fine bc lots of dogs do but I had a list of reasons why I wanted to try something else. Dr. Loops has really good success treating this. He is in NC but does most of his consults over the phone.
First off, how is Marshall doing? I didn't see an update on your other post.
I'm heading to the holistic vet today so I'll see what she says. Then I may just give Dr. Loops a call! Our vet actually said that with osteo, it is what it is and there are options but.....and kind of left it at that which is why I started researching on my own. I understand that he is a regular vet and doesn't understand the ins and outs of other practices so I'm not holding it against him! LOL But....he will just be my reference for standard scientific questions.
Ooh let us know what your holistic vet says.
Blending both western and eastern is what Dr. Dressler of The Dog Cancer Survival Guide likes to call "The Full Spectrum Approach." It makes a lot of sense and more vets and oncos are doing it these days. Here's why:
Why You Should Consider All Types of Vet Cancer Care Treatments
Here's a video with Dr. Johnny Cretin who talks about that:
An Oncologist’s View on Treating Bone Cancer Dogs with Holistic Medicine
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Making the decision for ongoing treatment is a tough one. You really to have to do the research, make those consults, then follow your heart. I would be a bit put off by not being able to add to the palladia. Chemo is expensive, and it has some side effects. It truly is a personal choice. Don't forget, you can change your mind. I really didn't want to do the chemo route, but our vet and Bob convinced me to try it just once. If the side effects were not good, I could choose not to do any more. Trouble had 5 treatments and did well. I suspect it played a role in her making 27 1/2 months. Had it not been for the arthritis, she would have made it longer - I have no doubt. Mobility took her from us, not cancer.
Good luck with your decision, and know you will be supported here regardless of the choice.
Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul. Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.
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