Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hey guys, Eva's finally at the end of our carboplatin route! 🙂
We have one more session and luckily have been able to do all of ours on time so far so I am expecting the next one to also happen on time. However that means I have three weeks to figure out what to do next!
We've done four rounds, and the fifth will come the second week of September. Our vet has explained to us that the X-ray regimen moving forward should be once a month for three months, and then every three months after that. Is that normal? What IS normal?
In addition, my vet believes I should speak to the alternative medicine doctor in the facility and get Eva on a protocol of herbal supplements specifically tailored to her needs (which I'm not entirely sure what that means yet but I suppose I will soon enough) to help keep the cancer at bay post-chemo. This could run anywhere from $300-$600 monthly in addition to the X-rays. The vet says the more "help" your dog needs, the more the protocol can cost. I'll estimate it around $400 as Eva has great bloodwork all the time and has no issues as far as anything besides the things treated with the probiotics she takes now and those are a result of the chemo anyway. But, I know I am probably not lucky enough to pay the bare minimum. So basically financially, this route is gonna be like $1800 for the first three months combined (with X-rays), and then $400 every month, with every third month being $700. Certainly less than chemo but still a hit to the wallet.
Our other option would be to do a trial that our vet is conducting and it is an herbal supplement as well. It, however, is not tailored specifically to Eva's needs and as most of the dogs involved did not get an amputation, it is more for bone pain (which Eva takes no pain meds now, I'm not sure that would even be necessary) with significantly less anti-angiogenic effects, but still some. This is funded by the vet, so I would only be responsible for the cost of the X-rays. This isn't the best option, obviously, but it would be financially a lot easier on us as I have to pay for college again this year.
I would really like to go with the personalized plan, but I am wondering if anyone else has ever heard of this? What did other families do post chemo? What were your statistics like (I know our babies aren't statistics but I still like to read the differences between people from all over and what their different vets say!) as far as dogs who go through with more treatment? What happens if I stop? I know these are questions I can ask at my consultation, I just wanna get a feel for this stuff before I walk in sounding as dumb as I feel!
Hi!
Well, today is 3 weeks post amputation for us (left forelimb) and my Zeus has OSA as well. We start our first round of Carboplatin this thursday, so I am nervous for that!
However, I've already met with a nutritionist at the University of Florida (where we're having everything done) and he is going to work side by side with us during chemo and will modify the plan every two weeks. Whether it's before, during, or after chemo, I think this plan and supplements are awesome. The goal is to get his immune system to 150% and use cancer killing natural supplements.
He charged $160 for the consultation and plan. I would be happy to share this with anyone who can benefit from it and save you some money! (check my notes at the bottom of this)
Here's the plan: (this is copied and pasted)
We discussed home-prepared diet strategies generally. We would advise that you start with a specific recipe in order to assess his tolerance to the specific nutrients. After a week or so on the diet, we could change the ingredients included within the diet while maintaining a similar nutrient profile. The following is the daily recipe which we recommend. We have calculated his calorie requirements at about 1,200 per day. (Zeus is a 55lb pit bull)
12 ounces of chicken breast cooked with skin (measured before cooking)
4 ounces of salmon fillet (can be canned if necessary, measured before cooking)
1/2-1 cup of mixed vegetables (focusing on carrots, red bell peppers, yellow bell peppers, cauliflower, green beans)
4 ounces of sweet potato
1/4 cup of brown rice (measured dry)
2 tablespoons of butter
1 teaspoon of coconut oil
1 teaspoon of calcium carbonate powder (you can use oyster shell calcium or purchase a pure calcium carbonate from NOW foods or similar brand)
1/2 teaspoon of iodized salt
1/2 tablet of Source Naturals Mega-One vitamin (available at amazon.com and other retailers)
You can make multiple days worth of food and freeze as necessary.
Medication Recommendations:
Please continue to give carprofen (Rimadyl) as needed.
Please continue to give all other medications as directed by the oncology group.
Supplement Recommendations
Natural Factors Curcumin: 600 mg capsule
Give 1 capsule by mouth twice daily with food. This supplement is a natural anti-inflammatory without any known contraindications for concurrent use with carprofen (Rimadyl) and chemotherapy agents. Side effects are rare, and generally limited to vomiting or diarrhea. Call us if these occur.
Artemisinin : 100 mg capsule
Give 1 capsule by mouth twice daily with food. This is an extract from a plant which has been shown to have activity against canine osteosarcoma cell lines. The clinical trials are still pending. The product works by causing damage to the cancer cells, and it should have a synergistic effect with chemotherapy. However, we have used this herb in other cases of osteosarcoma with few side effects. Some sensitive animals, however, have vomited shortly after administration of this product. Call us if this occurs.
Mush Medicinal Mushroom Blend: Powder
Several varieties of mushrooms contain sugar-like compounds which stimulate various parts of the immune system. We recommend that you give 1 teaspoon of powder twice daily mixed with food. Side effects have not been noted in our experience, but if they were to occur they would likely be diarrhea or vomiting.
Boswellia Extract: 500 mg capsule
Boswellia (frankincense) contains compounds suggested to reduce inflammation in arthritis. It may provide a natural alternative to long-term carprofen administration. Please give 1 capsule by mouth daily.
*** I have also added Essiac Tea (Caisse's tea) twice per day on an empty stomach. I mix 1oz Essiac Tea with 4oz chicken broth (left over from cooking the chicken) and give it 30 min before breakfast and 30 min before dinner.
TIPS:
Zeus is a 55lb pit bull. He was 61 lbs prior to amputation. I am giving both Zeus and my other dog, Pennie, this meal plan everyday. I've been giving it since Friday. I have it split into two meals, use a food scale and quart sized ziploc bags for everything. I add the butter (ghee), coconut oil, salt and supplements all at meal time. Just the food is pre mixed.
When buying the supplements, look at whether they are tablets, liquid, or capsules and the strength so that you can give one tablet versus two. I bought a pill cutter/crusher and that is helping a lot. The curcumin I open up and sprinkle on his food. The artmeisinin and mushroom blend (by host defense, called Stamets 7) are both liquid. The boswelia, multi-vitamin, and rimadyl I crush and sprinkle on his food as well. The calcium carbonate is also called Bone Meal Powder.
Also, this past weekend Whole Foods was having 25% off of their supplements and I purchased a discount card for $40 that got me an additional 20% off supplements, so I got 45% off! I bought double of everything. They did not have the mega one vitamin, artemisia, or calcium carbonate (bone meal powder).
This sounds overwhelming at first, and believe me it was, I cried on Friday trying to do it all. I can give you more tips if you'd like, just let me know.
I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE! 🙂
Heather
Heather
Pit Bull Mama to Zeus (10 year old Tripawd :-) & Pennie (5 year old)
Zeus became a Tripawd on 07-28-2015 and surgery was done at the University of Florida. He had a sarcoma in his left elbow joint and amputation was done of the entire arm and shoulder blade. Diagnosed with Osteosarcoma 08-12-2015. Secondary cancer - Adenocarcinoma - in anal gland diagnosed and removed in October 2015. Finished 6 rounds of Carboplatin on 12-21-2015!!! Woohoo!!!!
The best decision you can make is one that will keep you sane and not stressing about paying vet bills. Quality of life is so important, and when we are stressed and upset, our animals pick up on that so keep Eva's quality of life as your #1 priority and you can't go wrong.
I like the way your vet is thinking, it's awesome to have someone so open-minded. It can't hurt to meet with the holistic-minded vet (so many people dont' have access to one, so yay that you and Eva do!), and they of course want to work with your budget so as long as you make it clear what you can't and cannot afford, they will come up with a plan just for Eva.
The x-rays recommendation is normal. Not everyone does it though, that's up to you.
When we treated Jerry's cancer we chose 3 supplements to work with at any given time (after all, 3's a good number here!). It kept us sane and out of the poorhouse. We did not do follow-up x-rays for 17 months, but we did do metronomic chemotherapy once we found out he had lung mets. You can read about metronomics and post-chemo care both with and without lung mets by clicking on the metronomics link you see here.
The Tripawds Nutrition blog also has lot of information and examples of the types of plans that Zeus is following, so be sure to poke around there too.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Laighed at your last statement....." just wanna get a feel for this stuff before I walk in sounding as dumb as I feel! " I sure can relate! And then my "dumbness" is compou ded by zero computer knowledge and then dummied down even further by not understanding "computer speak"!
Sooooo glad to know your sweet Eva is doing so well. You really are an excellent advocate for your girl!
This is completely in the "for whatever it's worth" category! It goes without saying, every dog is different snd every specific "diagnosis" is different.
My Happy Hannah completed four rounds of Carboplatin. As a result of her Onco's "education", she basically believed that four was all that was necessary in her case. Xrays every month? That, in my unprofessional opinion, seems excessive! If I recall, it was suggested to get xrays at the three month mark for Happy Hannah. Again, if I recall, more spread out after that.
I like that your facility has so much to offer and I'm a big fan of supplemental holistic/alternative approach. HOWEVER, I'd suggest a consultation with another holistic vet and you may find a far less expensive route that is just as effective. This is not an endorsement in anyway, but I know several members here have done phone consults with Dr. Charles Loops out of North Carolina. A@so, search the site here for holistic vets and alternatives.
Although I didn't have a particularly good connection with her O co, one thi g I did like is she did not believe "more" is always better or necessary. Not doing additional treatment doesn't mean you've stopped treatment....it means your "treatme t" is to do know threatment or unnecessary tests, etc. Make sense?
The trial your vet mentioned...based on what you said.. doesn't sound like it would be beneficial to Eva and would be doing something, just for the sake of "doing something".
Something you might check out is metronomics . Many members have gone that route including Jerry. It basically involves a couple of pills a day, occasional bloodwork and occasional xrays...non invasive and very few vet trips. I did start Happy Hannah in that but she developed a uti so I stopped.
For my situation, there must came a point that it was very freeing to just let Happy Hannah love life to the fullest free of vets! I still did supplements, good nutrition, etc. Okay....I wasn't a purist with nutrition...she had ice cream and an occasional M&M and maybe a cupcake every now and then!
My Happy Hannah and I had THE most splendid ONE YEAR AND TWO MONTHS that I could ever have imagined! Everyday was full.of laughter, tail wags, snuggles, tummy rubs, ear scratches, sniffing out her favorite delicacy, deer poop, constant spoiling and loving!
Others will chime in. Always remember, there is no right or wrong on this crazy journey! You are dping everything out of love for Eva and she knows it!
Sending love
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
So as I'm struggling trying to type my lost...two GREAT responses fro. JERRY and HEATHER pop up!
Heather, that was sooooo kind of you to post all this incredibly valuable information!! Zeus, you have a very empowered advocate You and your .omma both rock!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Thank you guys all so much for your inputs!
I see from all the nice things I'm reading that 300 a month for post chemo meds is not out of the ordinary. This is good, I felt I was getting shafted hahaha. It seems like everyone uses a whole cocktail of things which definitely adds up, and that explains why it may be so much.
as for the x-rays being too frequent, since post op we have done them every six weeks. i am not against the once a month for three months thing post chemo because she had some shedding cells from the tumor. that being said, she has no lung mets yet and the chemo may have killed the migrating cells. but if it didn't, these next few months would be when we would learn that... and me being paranoid i wanna see whats in there after we stop chemo anyways cos i'm sure once i start the post chemo leg of this journey i will be finding all kinds of new things to worry about.
i think i'm gonna go ahead and do the consult with the holistic vet (since either option i choose the remaining treatment is gonna be through them) as i don't think i wanna do metronomics . i don't feel the need to i suppose. once i get a better idea of what they wanna give her, i can have a better idea as to what i should do instead. I like the artemisinin and as i've read with other people, there's a whole host of other things you give with it, which leads me to believe that might be what the holistic vet is thinking about doing.
After Murphy finished his chemo, MSU had me bring him out every 2-3 months for awhile. Now she says every 3-4 months, but it's been over 2 years since his surgery. Every time I take him out there I'm so proud of how well he's doing, but then I'm so afraid she's going to tell me she sees something!
Donna
Donna, Glenn & Murphy
Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old. He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17
Read about Murphy's Life on Three Legs
midnighter94 said
After Murphy finished his chemo, MSU had me bring him out every 2-3 months for awhile. Now she says every 3-4 months, but it's been over 2 years since his surgery. Every time I take him out there I'm so proud of how well he's doing, but then I'm so afraid she's going to tell me she sees something!Donna
did you guys do any additional therapies? or just chemo and then xrays? god i hope eva gives me another two years i would be ecstatic.
So many decisions.....Nitro had 6 doses of carboplatin, and then we moved on to metronomic therapy which is a daily oral low-dose chemo plus anti-inflammatory. I chose not to do ANY X-rays after his Carbo; everything that could be done for him is being done, the treatment would be the same with or without lung mets. Is this burying my head in the sand? Maybe. But for my own sanity, I choose to not dwell on this anymore than I've already done over the last 14 months. We are just going to live our lives in the now, being "more dog".
I'm sure you will do what is best for Eva and for you. Good luck with everything.
paula and nitro
Nitro 11 1/2 yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms. Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"
"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior
We haven't done anything else except a grain-free
diet. Murphy eats Blue Buffalo, but he sometimes gets caught sneaking Cassie & Max's food 
Donna
Donna, Glenn & Murphy
Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old. He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17
Read about Murphy's Life on Three Legs
dobemom said
So many decisions.....Nitro had 6 doses of carboplatin, and then we moved on to metronomic therapy which is a daily oral low-dose chemo plus anti-inflammatory. I chose not to do ANY X-rays after his Carbo; everything that could be done for him is being done, the treatment would be the same with or without lung mets. Is this burying my head in the sand? Maybe. But for my own sanity, I choose to not dwell on this anymore than I've already done over the last 14 months. We are just going to live our lives in the now, being "more dog".I'm sure you will do what is best for Eva and for you. Good luck with everything.
paula and nitro
Thanks so much for the kind words! I guess with me I'm just confused about only relying on supplements. If it were me, it would sound a lot like snake oil. My dad thinks like you, doesn't wanna do the Xrays because the course is the same, but in my mind I need to know what's going on so I can better understand how to keep her comfortable. Everyone is different, but I know if I'm not doing anything to check her lungs, every single day I will be paranoid! I am a worry wart and I would dwell so much without the Xrays, every little cough and movement. I didn't want to do metronomics because Eva doesn't have any mets or any presentation of cancer remaining in her body, so I feel like that's just giving her meds that I'm not sure she needs. Which probably if I did that I wouldn't worry as much about the Xrays lol, so I definitely understand why you wouldn't do any.
midnighter94 said
We haven't done anything else except a grain-free diet. Murphy eats Blue Buffalo, but he sometimes gets caught sneaking Cassie & Max's foodDonna
Eva's been on grain free her entire life because she has a grain allergy. So we just feed her and the other dog grain free . I can't decide if this supplement stuff is worth the extra money and vet visits and etc, because nobody has shown me anything that says doggies that take them (any of them, im willing to look into basically anything that shows beneficiality) tend to do better than doggies who do not take them in the long run, as far as preventing mets or anything like that. I'm just worried moving day to day, that it could come back once the chemo is over... ugh!
The only input I can offer to your well thought out ppsts AND great self awareness of how you process things.....Be More Dog !!
Follow Eva's lead and stay in the present. The bliss of being a dog is never worrying about a thing! How great would that be?
You are doing EVERYTHING possible for your girl. It is frustrating to try and determine what to do as so many of our choices just seem to be a crap shoot anyway.
But the one route we can all take with certainty of a positive effect is to stay in the moment and let NOTING rob us of our time together! All is well in Eva's world and all she wants is your loving and spoiling and to be fully present with her.
You are a spectacular advocate for Eva and she is clearly a well loved dog! You are doing a great job of looking out for her...you really are!!
And...hint...we sure would like to see more pictures!
Love to all!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
PS...Happy Hannah did four rounds Carboplatin, K9 Immunity Plis, Apocaps , Fish Oil, Bone Meal, home cooking interspersed with Honest Kitchen, Evo, Orijen and a few other grain free kibbles...and ice cream!!
And like Paula, no more xrays after chemo for pretty much the same reasons. I did do metronomics for a brief time but she developed a uti so we stopped.
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
The concept of metronomics is to prevent lung metastasis, and manage it once it appears. It's not right for every dog but for those who can do it, it's been very helpful in sustaining a good quality of life.
The success of supplements depends on so many factors. We found that the guidance of a holistic vet can help ensure that the supplements do what they're supposed to, but like anything, there are no guarantees. You might want to check out our forum discussions abut K9 Immunity to see what others think about it. For the most part, most people who used this one, including us, found that it helped give a huge boost to quality of life.
Have you seen the Dog Cancer Survival Guide ? That's a really great tool to have and gives a great education on all of these topics.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
benny55 said
PS...Happy Hannah did four rounds Carboplatin, K9 Immunity Plis, Apocaps , Fish Oil, Bone Meal, home cooking interspersed with Honest Kitchen, Evo, Orijen and a few other grain free kibbles...and ice cream!!And like Paula, no more xrays after chemo for pretty much the same reasons. I did do metronomics for a brief time but she developed a uti so we stopped.
jerry said
The concept of metronomics is to prevent lung metastasis, and manage it once it appears. It's not right for every dog but for those who can do it, it's been very helpful in sustaining a good quality of life.The success of supplements depends on so many factors. We found that the guidance of a holistic vet can help ensure that the supplements do what they're supposed to, but like anything, there are no guarantees. You might want to check out our forum discussions abut K9 Immunity to see what others think about it. For the most part, most people who used this one, including us, found that it helped give a huge boost to quality of life.
Have you seen the Dog Cancer Survival Guide ? That's a really great tool to have and gives a great education on all of these topics.
We're 4 rounds of carbo in, but we're doing one more.
I think I might order some k9 immunity plus just regardless of what I do moving forward.
Metronomics I didn't think would be a good idea for Eva just because she is extremely prone to vaginal and uterine and bladder infections. Like, she gets vaginal infections due to an inverted vulva so often that we have a running prescription for medicated pads and mousses to "clean her" with. And we were all nervous with the carbo chemo that it would make it worse and it has, she's gotten two vaginal staph infections since we started chemo, and I think it's best if after the carbo we just give her immune system the break.
I don't know if it's worth going to this holistic vet for 3-600$ a month for supplements, but of course I just wanna do whatever I can to keep E as long as I can. She is so happy while she's healthy, I just wanna keep her happy 🙂
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