Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Thank you Tina
I wish I could say I'm feeling a bit calmer today, but of course I woke up crying. Again. We do have a teaching hospital nearby that I am going to reach out to if my current oncologist won't offer other solutions.
Maybe it was my frame of mind yesterday, but I called him in a panic from the surgeon's office. Told him they didn't advise the surgery because of the significant risk of paralysis. His response was that it's only a risk, and if it was his dog he'd do it. He seemed a bit annoyed, but I don't know if it was only my perception.
But I do know her neck wasn't crooked before the first X-rays were done, and it was afterwards. My husband had picked her up after that visit and mentioned that she cried and her neck seemed to bother her. I just couldn't go through with it under those circumstances.
Still the reality is my girl has cancer, and she's 12 and in more pain by the day. I'm racing the clock to help her, but how much more can I put her through? Amputation was her best shot, and with that gone our options are shrinking.
Sue
Sue,
cry all you need to, all of us here understand. This is such a hard decision. And such a personal decision. I wouldn't dare give you any sort of advice here. If she won't be able to live with that leg, maybe the neck is a risk you will have to take. at the same time, though, I totally, totally understand how you would not dare risk paralysis.
The only thing I can and dare say is that the teaching hospital may be able to give you at least a second opinion, if not another option. I had to learn the hard way that second opinions always make sense when it comes to potential surgeries. And I'm sure you could go there as an emergency.
hugs from over here. You're not alone.
tina
Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.
Soooooo....it does seem as if the oncologist is correct in that if Dixie's condition with her neck was as fragile, she would not be able to do what she is currently doing due to the high risk of complications.
Would SERIOUSLY consider the teaching hospital ASAP. Depending on the teaching hospital, one way to have Dixie's case reviewed sooner rather than later is to take her through the emergency services (will be an additional $150-$ 175 fee) so that they may refer her out to neuro/surgery/oncology. Otherwise, it can take weeks for an appointment.
It does not seem as if this is the end of the road but rather she has a complication. Hard for me to believe that even with muscles relaxing, a method for stabilizing her neck beforehand was not possible. What images were the surgeons looking at to base their judgment on? Emma Rose, with all of her complications ALSO underwent multiple sedations but came out fine (and she is an ACD/Pyr cross so is MUCH more sensitive to anesthesia...)
Hang in there. No worries about the crying! It is an awful thing when you and Dixie are doing everything possible but not getting the immediate assistance you need for such a complicated case.
I, truly, in my gut, believe it is possible BUT that a teaching hospital would at least provide more options and information due to the nature of their collaborative efforts. (There has never been a time when Da Bears haven't, at the VET School, been discussed within SEVERAL services.)
Huge hugs, best wishes, and PyrPaws all around! (Which teaching hospital are you near, btw?)
Just waking up now so more later but yes another opinion from the uviversity can help put your mind at ease no matter which path you take.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Oh Sue, this is just rotten! Absolutely rotten!
Nkw is when you really, seriously, have to take some DEEP BREATHS
........B R E A T H E........B R E A T H E......And get in a calm and centered state. Options, including amputation, are STILL on the table, okay? But you need more clarity from other professionals.
Absolutely get more opinions!!! And definitely have rhose xrays reviewed thoroughly by others.
So, is the Surgeon saying that actual "risk" of paralysis comes from the relaxation of the muscles under the anesthesia? Disc issues on their own can be treated with anti-inflammatory, etc. But it sounds like he is saying the extreme relaxation that occurs under the anesthesia is whwre the challenge is.....maybe??
She showed no signs of neck issues until going under for the xrays?? And even now, she's getting along well?
And she is out of the anesthesia from today with no additional issues? Was he more concerned about the damage that can be done during the surgery itself, or afterwards as a recovering tripawd, or voth??
Don't mean to be asking so many questions. Hopefully, with more opinions you will get more clarity.
Do you have good pain management going for now? Is she in Tramadol and/or Gabapentin?
Just know we are all here ssupporting you in anyway we can. And, of course, Dixie isn't worried about a thing! So try and Be More Dixie! Whatever decision you make will be out of love!!!! That is ALWAYS the right decision.
Hugs and love
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Hi everyone,
I am going to try and answer all the questions here:
First, the neck issue was not present before the X-rays taken under full sedation at first visit it to orthopedist. Since then she has been holding her head all cockeyed. It was diagnosed as degenerative disc disease by the radiology group who reviewed the film taken at oncologist(not sedated ) It has not improved at all since the sedation and actually looks worse. I know it's painful for her and may even be bothering her more than the leg at this point. The surgeon was worried that with the muscles fully relaxed during surgery due to the sedation that she would lose whatever is supporting the neck now between the actual surgery and the waking up.. Apparently there can be a fair amount of thrashing about during the waking up process. Something new I learned. He also said had she looked like that at her first visit he never would have sedated her for X-rays and that if it was any other elective surgery he would not do it until we addressed the neck issue because it's just too dangerous. The only reason he was even giving me the option was because of the circumstances.
When I spoke to the oncologist he thought I should go ahead with it and that it was just a standard risk, but the surgical team did not want to do it. Said they wouldn't tell me what do do, but were not advising the surgery, so I backed out. I spoke to my regular vet today, to update her and she seemed confused by them not wanting to sedate her either. But this orthopedist is one of the best and many people in my world of dog sports have used him and highly recommended him. My thought was that if he didn't feel comfortable putting her at that risk I should listen to him. I couldn't justify having her wake up paralyzed or with her neck in even worse shape than it is now. I would just be hastening her death after putting her through a major surgery. That wouldn't be fair to her at all.
I also have to say she looked like crap when we went in. I'm sure partly due to the hour drive and partly due to the fact she hadn't had her pain meds that day. ( I think this was asked somewhere- she's currently taking 75 mg Rimadyl once a day, and 200 mg tramadol -75 mg breakfast and dinner and 50 mg before bed. She also gets turkey tail and my community one tab each with bfast and dinner. My vet just filled a gabapentin script for her as well and I am picking that up tomorrow)And it was a rainy yucky day. Dixie has never liked the rain.
Cornell is the vet school nearest me. I'm sure I can get appointment with them, although would go the emergency route if needed. Right now she is scheduled for her weekly acupuncture at our regular vet on Monday. Tomorrow I am calling my oncologist to see what options I have if we really can't amputate. I also want to see if we can do anything for her neck, and for that I'll need a different specialist, I'm sure.
On a positive note- my husband reported she ate well and also played a little today. And her nub was going a mile a minute when I got home. I just want her to be happy, for as long as she can so I'll take that for today.
Sue
Awwww....So glad you got a happy tail wag! Nothing better than that! 🙂 🙂 'And she was a bit frisky earlier and ate her breakfast...all good signs that she's doing "okay" considering all her challenges.
Thanks for taking the time to outline all the input you've gotten from various Vets, etc. I can only imagine your frustration and uncertainty on what to do.
Talking with you Onco about options if surgery is off the table is a good start. And I can certainly understand why you didn't proceed with the amputation after the Surgeon gave you his scary perspective! Checking with Cornell is a good plan too. Sometimes a different set of eyes can come up with solutions others hadn't thought of.
Hopefully the Gabapentin will help keep Dixie even more ccomfortable. Pain meds can do wonders!
We're all cheering for sweet Dixie! I'm sure you will be able to come up with a good treatment plan of some form or another. The acupuncture should kick in too and help alleviate some of the neck issues.
Keep us posted! We are all wuite smitten with this spunky pul! 🙂
Hugs!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
I am going to try and answer all the questions here:
First, the neck issue was not present before the X-rays taken under full sedation at first visit it to orthopedist. Since then she has been holding her head all cockeyed. It was diagnosed as degenerative disc disease by the radiology group who reviewed the film taken at oncologist(not sedated ) It has not improved at all since the sedation and actually looks worse. I know it's painful for her and may even be bothering her more than the leg at this point.
Okay…soooo, if it had been a preexisting condition would have likely seen it before. Sooooo, sudden onset. Following diagnostic/imaging procedure…mmmnnnnnnnn. Not discounting but….do NSAIDS make it better and is there a recommended recovery time?
The surgeon was worried that with the muscles fully relaxed during surgery due to the sedation that she would lose whatever is supporting the neck now between the actual surgery and the waking up.. Apparently there can be a fair amount of thrashing about during the waking up process.
Yes. There is extensive thrashing about after waking from anesthesia and there is stumbling but within a monitored and limited space. IF this were a concern then a vet tech could be assigned and thrashing minimized. Have had MANY ferals fixed and immediately sent home (where, yes, the thrashing begins BUT if known, accommodations can usually be made…)
He also said had she looked like that at her first visit he never would have sedated her for X-rays and that if it was any other elective surgery he would not do it until we addressed the neck issue because it's just too dangerous. The only reason he was even giving me the option was because of the circumstances.
Totally agree IF these circumstances were the totality of the story. Soooooo. my WonderBear Emma Rose was sedated TWICE in one day at the Vet School undergoing diagnostics. OF COURSE the Head of Neuro called me just to be certain that I was not out of my mind and putting an elder at the end of their life through anything just to “save” her…Guess what…I said YOU were the ones who sedated her TWICE in less than 12 hours at the age 14 ½!!!!…Soooooo. Um, get a grip and acknowledge she looks this way TODAY because of your, um…well....
When I spoke to the oncologist he thought I should go ahead with it and that it was just a standard risk, but the surgical team did not want to do it. Said they wouldn't tell me what do do, but were not advising the surgery, so I backed out.
Totally understandable. But would go to Cornell and let a larger team collaborate. Not that you will not hear the same recommendations but…what if you didn’t?
I spoke to my regular vet today, to update her and she seemed confused by them not wanting to sedate her either.
Yea, I kinda call BS on that as well. There are MANY more cases with MANY more risk factors where sedation is used and things turn out fine...
But this orthopedist is one of the best and many people in my world of dog sports have used him and highly recommended him. My thought was that if he didn't feel comfortable putting her at that risk I should listen to him. I couldn't justify having her wake up paralyzed or with her neck in even worse shape than it is now. I would just be hastening her death after putting her through a major surgery. That wouldn't be fair to her at all.
Totally agree but vets do tend to operate in silos…
I also have to say she looked like crap when we went in. I'm sure partly due to the hour drive and partly due to the fact she hadn't had her pain meds that day. ( I think this was asked somewhere- she's currently taking 75 mg Rimadyl once a day, and 200 mg ramadol -75 mg breakfast and dinner and 50 mg before bed. She also gets turkey tail and my community one tab each with bfast and dinner. My vet just filled a gabapentin script for her as well and I am picking that up tomorrow)And it was a rainy yucky day. Dixie has never liked the rain.
EmmaRose looked like death warmed over (and like the Vet School had killed her) after the double sedation..how could I drop off a medically fragile, elder dog and have this outcome? Well...given time, she made a full recovery. Not EmmaRose’s fault. So the PERCEPTION was she was too fragile. I called BS on that: Vet School: YOU had the resident SEDATE her TWICE withing 12 hours. She has a brain tumor, heart mass, and thyroid cancer AND is 14 ½!!! That is on you and your residents Vet School: certainly NOT on Emma! EmmaRose was okay before you nearly killed her….
Cornell is the vet school nearest me. I'm sure I can get appointment with them, although would go the emergency route if needed.
Top shelf school:)
Right now she is scheduled for her weekly acupuncture at our regular vet on Monday. Tomorrow I am calling my oncologist to see what options I have if we really can't amputate. I also want to see if we can do anything for her neck, and for that I'll need a different specialist, I'm sure.
On a positive note- my husband reported she ate well and also played a little today. And her nub was going a mile a minute when I got home. I just want her to be happy, for as long as she can so I'll take that for today.
Exactly. SHE knows who she is and what she is doing:) The nub nub going a mile a minute is FANTASTICJ Go Dixie!
Oh, Sue I just read your thread ...
I am really sorry to hear how her situation got so complicated ...
Luckily you've been having great advice!
I have no knowledge to share with you at this stage but me and my girl are sending you all the pawsitive energy we can master and keeping fingers and paws crossed a solution will be found soon.
She is eating and wagging her tail so she obviously is not worried ...
Sending you a big bear hug and tons of cuddles 😘💕🐶
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
Good morning,
So glad it's finally the weekend so I can spend some real time with my girl, and give my other dogs some desperately needed attention. My only update for today is that the oncologist who recommended the surgery is now not taking my calls. I called yesterday to see what we can do moving forward to offer palliative relief in the meantime while I address the neck. Gave a detailed message to reception, specifically asking for dr by name, and after being on hold for several minutes she came back on to tell me 'someone would call me back'. Nobody did. It is now the weekend and they are closed. Has anyone ever had this kind of response from their oncologist? I think I said in my earlier post that he seemed annoyed when I called from the surgeons office.
We have acupuncture appt Monday morning with regular vet. I am going to see if she can get me a fast track appt with Cornell. If she can't, I do have another group to see that I've used before for our GSP with neurological issues, so will bring Dixie there for her neck, because it is clearly uncomfortable. I iced it last night and she was smiling. This is a dog who doesn't like anything like that normally. She usually fidgets and gets away from whatever external 'stuff' I am trying to treat her with, but she relaxed into it, closed her eyes and smiled. And laid like that for a good 30 minutes. It was good to be able to give her some relief at least.
I really appreciate all the input and support here. It's making me feel a little less crazy and giving me some hope that we are not at the end of the line just yet.
Sue
Awww....the visual of Dixie loving her ice pack and getting some one in one time with Mom. Really glad that it gave her some relief. You're a really good caregiver for your girl! 🙂
I did not have a good communication experience with Happy Hannah's Onco or Surgeon either...especially the Onco. Same type of scenario.....would leave very specific questions out of respect for her time so when she did call back it coukd be quick answers and then done. IF I did get a return call, often it was a Tech and there was no correlation between the questions I asked and the answers that were left! And it could be thst the Onco thought someone else did call you back per her instructions. So give the Onco the benefit of the doubt...for now.
So yeah, others have had similar experiences and others have had much better! All I can say is continue to be persistent. Do not feel.like you are bugging them! If your call would be returned, you wouldn't be "bugging" them! So it's on them...not you, okay?
In the meantime, trying to get an assessment from Cornell sounds like a really good plan, as well as following up with the other group you referenced.
For now, just enjoy your weekend withnyournpups....And take lots ofmpictures!! 🙂 We'd love to see some!
Hugs!
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Hey Sally,
would love to post some pics, but have no clue how to do blog (I looked at the start page and my eyes glazed over- I am not technically inclined at all, lol)
if there is an easier way would love to do it. I did check the tech help forum already, I just don't get it. My pics are on my IPad, not any particular photo sharing site.
Sue
HAHAHA! I can sooooo relate to your eyes glazing over trying to figure out all that techie talk! I've been on here three years and never did a blog either!
And trust me, if you have a tavlet and android, your screen doesn't look anything like what regular computers look like! A lot of "symbols" (like "mountains") and stuff talked about in instructions are non existent on android tavlets! True story!!
For now though, if you want to email me some pictures, I just might be able to get them on here for you.
I'll PM you my email address. Can't wait to see them!
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
PS...PM is your private messenger box. Just check your "inbox" You'll get an email from Word Press telling you there is a PM for you.
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Okay TEAM DIXIE, get ready for CUTE,ADORAVLE and BEAUTIFUL!! We have some great photos of Champion Dixie! She really is a beautiful gal!!
CUTENESS ALERT! Dixie and her baby brother 🙂
Prepare yourself dor BEAUTIFUL!! 🙂 🙂
Now get ready to be amazed!!! This is Dixie at the 2015 National Agility Championship in Florida! Is this a happy dog or what!! This Dixie gal is experiencing pure bliss! 🙂 🙂
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Thank you for posting these Sally. They are reminders of the fun we've had together and the 11 great years we have shared. I love her so much. We've had a great journey together.
But the girl in these pictures is not the one I'm lying beside tonight. When we first got the diagnosis she was still happy and active and living her life. I promised to fight for her as long as she wanted me to.. I've been beside her all day, icing her neck and hip, watching her sleep, getting up for potty breaks every few hours. After one earlier today she came up to me, sat on my lap and laid back to look at my face. And she told me to release her, the pain is too great.
My sleepless nights have given me plenty of time to reflect on the past several months. Little things I put down to age. I think the cancer is much farther along than I originally thought. Or it's just so damn aggressive we can't beat the clock for even a few months. I keep increasing her meds, but it's not bringing my Dixie back. It's not giving her the life she wants to live. And no matter how long I drag it out, it's still cancer, and it's still going to win.
She asked me today to let her go, and tomorrow my heart will break in a million pieces as I do what I promised to do the day I adopted her.
Sue
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