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Intervertebral disc disease perhaps? 2 months post op and still in pain. *neck pain*
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Member Since:
7 July 2019
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24 July 2019 - 2:37 pm
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Hi! 

We are new here so I am not sure I am posting in the right section. Our girl Coco is a 10 years old. We are two months post op. She had her front leg removed due to osteosarcoma. She is a greyhound. Prior to surgery, Coco was healthy other than her cancer. It feels like it's an never ending struggle now. She was diagnosed with kidney issues after one month post op. So she is on benazapril 15mg/day. Recently as well, we noticed her having issues in the pain. At first we thought it may be post op phantom pain or remnants of surgery. However upon investigation, our orthopedic surgeon concluded it may be a inter vertebral disc disease of some sort, after xrays came clean of cancer in the vertebrate. She been on gabapentin since prior to her surgery when she had her cancer in the wrist. She was also prescribed amamtadine that we haven't started yet, we will get it this evening. And we are waiting for our urine test to start metacam. So last night, we dont know what happen, but Coco yelped on and off. I gave her more gabapentin than usual dose, and found left over of tramadol that we used for post op. She never cried out before. 

She finally managed to fall asleep in the morning. We called the vet but he is away for today and most likely wont hear from him until tomorrow. My question is, has anyone experience this post op? what other issues could cause neck pain? We decided to do amputation because we thought we could give her pain free quality time before she leaves us. She hasn't been pain free since her surgery, she was more active when she had bone cancer in her wrist. It's heartbreaking. We dont want to drag her from vet to vet and start doing procedures. She gets so much anxiety. We were recommended to see a neurologist and perhaps perform an MIR. To fix the supposed issue, which no one can tell us for sure what the problem is until we do an MIR, is surgery. So truthfully we dont want to go that path again. 

So if anyone has similar issues, please let us know what path you took and what type of medication worked. We want to be able to manage her pain so we can give her a worth living time. Otherwise, we cant bare watching her suffer, and will have to let her go after all the trouble she's been through. 

thanks for reading. 

On The Road


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24 July 2019 - 2:51 pm
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Hi Coco and family, welcome. I'm so sorry to hear about her mobility issues. 

I need to make this quick because I've got to get to work but I wanted others to see it so they can provide feedback too.

It sounds like she's getting great orthopedic care, but ....My biggest question is, has Coco seen a canine rehabilitation therapist yet? If not that would be my next move. These experts can help figure out if this is an easily fixed soft-tissue injury of some sort (usually, that's what we see here, and it's very treatable). Ask your vet team for a referral, stat.

If you take her to a credentialed therapist, the Tripawds Foundation may pay for your first rehab visit ! I would take advantage of the program and get her into a clinic so that they can take a look, and potentially save you the cost of the MRI. 

More later, stay tuned for feedback from others.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Irina
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24 July 2019 - 2:58 pm
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jerry said
Hi Coco and family, welcome. I'm so sorry to hear about her mobility issues. 

I need to make this quick because I've got to get to work but I wanted others to see it so they can provide feedback too.

It sounds like she's getting great orthopedic care, but ....My biggest question is, has Coco seen a canine rehabilitation therapist yet? If not that would be my next move. These experts can help figure out if this is an easily fixed soft-tissue injury of some sort (usually, that's what we see here, and it's very treatable). Ask your vet team for a referral, stat.

If you take her to a credentialed therapist, the Tripawds Foundation may pay for your first rehab visit ! I would take advantage of the program and get her into a clinic so that they can take a look, and potentially save you the cost of the MRI. 

More later, stay tuned for feedback from others.

  

Hi! thank you for quick reply! Would soft tissue injury cause that much pain that tramadol and gabapentin cannot control? We also feel that the problem is when she moves the neck. She always yelped when turning her neck towards the amputated side since post op. Now we feel it gotten worse. 

On The Road


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24 July 2019 - 3:15 pm
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Irina said
Would soft tissue injury cause that much pain...

Please consult with your vet, or better yet see a certified canine rehab therapist for proper evaluation. Visit a CCRT or CCRP and the Tripawds Foundation can even pay for your first visit from the Maggie Moo Fund for Tripawd Rehab. You will also find many pain management articles, videos and podcasts in the Tripawds News blog .

Consider registering to take full advantage of the many Tripawds resources. For starters, your forum posts will not require moderation.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Virginia







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24 July 2019 - 7:38 pm
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Geez, you and Coco  have really been through  a rough time.  Give yourself credit for holding grit rogether and for staying focused on a solution.  I can only imagine  how hard that has  been, but you ARE going to get a solution!!

Another suggestion  in addition  to the Rehabilitation  Specialist (and I hope you can get an assessment done quickly), would be to get an assessment  from an animal Chiropractor if there is one available.   I think I'm correct in telling  you Paula, Warrior Nitro's hooman, had great success

So, before the surgery, there was NO indication  of neck/back pain whatsoever,  correct?  How quickly did that seem to start after the surgery?

I'm  gonna throw out something  really crazy since no one seems to know what's causing this.  Is it possible at all that there are some nerve endings  left "open", not closed off up in the shoulder area of the incision?  I can't think of the proper medical  term, but on rare ocassions surgeons  jave jad tomgo back in to deaden these nerves.  

I know you must be incredibly frustrated and you need to get this figured out.  What happens when you massage up and down her neck/shoulder area, her spine/back, etc?  Any tension  show up in certain  areas?

Hang in there.  Coco is very lucky to have you advocate  for her.

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Irina
6
24 July 2019 - 9:50 pm
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benny55 said
Geez, you and Coco  have really been through  a rough time.  Give yourself credit for holding grit rogether and for staying focused on a solution.  I can only imagine  how hard that has  been, but you ARE going to get a solution!!

Another suggestion  in addition  to the Rehabilitation  Specialist (and I hope you can get an assessment done quickly), would be to get an assessment  from an animal Chiropractor if there is one available.   I think I'm correct in telling  you Paula, Warrior Nitro's hooman, had great success

So, before the surgery, there was NO indication  of neck/back pain whatsoever,  correct?  How quickly did that seem to start after the surgery?

I'm  gonna throw out something  really crazy since no one seems to know what's causing this.  Is it possible at all that there are some nerve endings  left "open", not closed off up in the shoulder area of the incision?  I can't think of the proper medical  term, but on rare ocassions surgeons  jave jad tomgo back in to deaden these nerves.  

I know you must be incredibly frustrated and you need to get this figured out.  What happens when you massage up and down her neck/shoulder area, her spine/back, etc?  Any tension  show up in certain  areas?

Hang in there.  Coco is very lucky to have you advocate  for her.

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

  

Hi Sally and family! Thank you so much for your kind words. We just want her to be pain free. 

thank you for your reply. We haven't tried chiro, only acupuncture so far which we only got two session and we stopped to make sure there wasn't any underlying issues (cancer in vertebrate). 

Also before surgery we didn't have any issues. Our vet says that she might had issues prior but due to weight shift, now it might've affected more significantly. We cant tell for sure. But no, we didn't see any issues with it prior. 

We did think of the option of nerves, our surgeon says most likely due to disc issues from her examination of the neck and found sensitivity and because she drags her rear legs slightly. But that's due to the foot test she did where you see the reaction of the dog flipping it's foot back to place. Not sure of the right terminology. I tried it at home, and it was not that significant. Also gabapentin makes her a little sloppy and she is senior (just turn 10) and this surgery is taking a toll on her. 

I will ask my vet about nerves left open. She also has hemoclips, I believe it is due because they lost her artery during surgery. She required blood transfusion. Or perhaps it's normal for amputation. We thought at first it may be the hemoclips but surgeon said no. Although who knows. 

We cant tell if it was right away from surgery or developed after. She always had some kind of pain after surgery. It could've been the same issue. It's difficult to say. Greyhounds are pretty stoic too. 

We just got her on Metacam today. So hopefully and NSAID will help her over night. 

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31 July 2019 - 9:14 pm
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Hi Coco and Family -- 

We are potentially having similar problems with our geriatric Great Dane. We, however, were aware that there was likely some degree of cervical disease prior to surgery -- a history of neck pain when palpated by the neurologist (honestly, we never would have known based on how he acted at home ... certainly never seemed painful) and occasionally scuffing his toes. He was a pretty active dog though hiking up to 5 days per week (before surgery). As a forelimb amputation it is probable that they put a lot more strain on an already pre-disposed neck.  

I would recommend talking to a neurologist and rehab vet. We are currently considering an MRI (but wondering if we would do additional surgery if we found something), adjusting our pain medications and are actively diving into rehab. Our neck pain isn't any worse than it was pre surgery on exam (but who knows if her intermittently tweaks something) so we are also considering pain from the other forelimb due to exacerbating OA. It's so hard because they can't tell us! 

I'm sorry that you are in this boat. 

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7 August 2019 - 4:38 am
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Thank you so much for your imput. What type of rehab are you doing? We're trying managing her pain. We have good and bad days. She's on gabapentin, amamtadine and now galliprant. Now we have kidney issues. It's hard to have her on NSAIDs for too long. 

What path have you decided to take? Our orthopedic surgeon suggested to see a neurologist. I think we are done with big tests, MIR and such.On top of that, everytime we go to vet, it's a huge stresser. I dont know what other pain meds they can give us to alleviate her pain. So far it seems to help somewhat. Certainly not quality time we all thought would happen. All process is taking a toll on the dog. Sorry for delay, hope to hear from you back. I hope your great Dane is doing well! 

Virginia







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7 August 2019 - 9:46 am
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Just wanted you to know I have emailed a long time  valued member, Ingrid.  She has been owned by several Greyhounds and is extremely  knowledgeable and up to date about all types of issues they may face.  And she's  had lots of dogs with a lot of unique "issues".  

In the meantime, try and get more specifics (maybe even copies of her records) as to what exactly  went on during surfery, especially  related to the artery  and hemoclips "issue". 

I'm  sure your frustration  level is off the charts.  And I'm  also sure this is harder on uoj than Coco.  Hopefully  we can get to a point soon with ALL good days!  Hang in there!  You are an outstanding  advocate for your girl!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Irina
10
7 August 2019 - 3:58 pm
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benny55 said
Just wanted you to know I have emailed a long time  valued member, Ingrid.  She has been owned by several Greyhounds and is extremely  knowledgeable and up to date about all types of issues they may face.  And she's  had lots of dogs with a lot of unique "issues".  

In the meantime, try and get more specifics (maybe even copies of her records) as to what exactly  went on during surfery, especially  related to the artery  and hemoclips "issue". 

I'm  sure your frustration  level is off the charts.  And I'm  also sure this is harder on uoj than Coco.  Hopefully  we can get to a point soon with ALL good days!  Hang in there!  You are an outstanding  advocate for your girl!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

  

Hi thank you so much for looking into this. I will try getting some info surgeon. All they said is that they lost her artery during surgery, and she lost some blood. She was okay and needed a transfusion. And she has 8 hemoclips now. When the surgeon palpitated her recently, she did noticed close to incision a sensitive spot which my acupuncture vet sensed it as well. But she eventually shifted to the neck area closer to head ruling out hemoclips. And said it's most likely to do with disc issues. We did xrays and report said it doesn't see any cancer or anything abnormal. However it cannot rule out disc or cancer as xrays do not pick up everything. So she told us to go to see a neurologist. Now the problem is that we have a dog with cancer. We wanted to remove pain in her paw so she can have comfortable life for whatever time she has left with us. It didn't turn out this way. We don't want to cause her more discomfort with more ct scans or MIRs. We even ruled out chemo because we didn't want to be bring her to vet and leave her half a day there fore treatment. We even ask our vet to do home visits because we don't want to cause her more stress. She is not that type of dog, she doesn't do well with vets or new places and very skittish as a greyhound is. And neurologist wont be able to tell us what is wrong with her unless with do more testing. On top of that, how can we have MIR done when she has metal hemoclips? 

As few mentioned earlier, it could be disc that perhaps were took a strain with becoming a tripawd. Perhaps there was an issue that was unknown prior to surgery. Who knows, she didn't show other than limping from her cancer, but she never yelped either, even which cancer in her paw without any pain meds as we didn't know. We could try physio, although I don't see her doing well. She'll probably have a heart attack before even stepping into the pool. At this time we are trying to salvage her kidney, we're on second meds since first didn't work. She has proteurina which we are trying to fix. 

On The Road


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7 August 2019 - 5:34 pm
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I'm really sorry, what a tough situation.

We could try physio, although I don’t see her doing well. She’ll probably have a heart attack before even stepping into the pool. 

Physio is about so much more than hydrotherapy. Gentle massage, e-stim and other modalities can provide pain relief. Where exactly are you located? I think you're in the UK right? If so, we have members there. Maybe they can help us find a home visit therapist for you. Have you asked the acupuncturist or surgeon for home visit practitioner referrals? My guess is you have at least one nearby.

It's OK to say "no more diagnostics," that's understandable considering what kind of dog she is. It sounds like the best thing you can do at this point is to help manage the pain as best you can, so that she can find a new normal and feel good. 

You are in a tough spot but putting so much thought and love into Coco's situation. Try to stay pawsitive and you and her medical team will find a way to get your girl's sparkle back. (((hugs)))

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

On The Road


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7 August 2019 - 5:36 pm
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P.S. I wanted to share the story of Bender the Bulldog with you. He had horrific pain after surgery and his people also felt the same way, that there was little hope left for their guy. After numerous interventions with his medical team, they found the cause and Bender made it through to enjoy his new life as a Tripawd. I hope this helps you feel better.

P.S. please register as a member so your posts won't need approval.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Raleigh, NC
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8 August 2019 - 2:12 pm
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I'm the greyhound person.  Having a spooky greyhound is never easy.  I forgot the bloodline that caused this but those of us who have had a spook do understand what you're going through.  My Toughie loved to go for walks and visit people but he didn't do well in a car at all.  He was fine in a minivan packed with other greyhounds but would stress out so badly when traveling with just me and our other greyhound Kitty or solo.

Nixon was injured by a physical therapist at NC State one week after his amputation.   He stood for 8 hours straight and caused a horrible strain/soft tissue injury in his neck.  He was also a front leg amputation.  He was unable to get up by himself for several weeks and he screamed each time he stood up for about a minute anyway.  It did eventually heal but it did delay all of our treatment options.   While he was healing from that, we used laser therapy to help with the pain. 

Although I won't recommend the rehab center at NC State, I have worked with some amazing vets who specialize in physical therapy.  If traveling is stressful right now, I would see about getting a phone consult with Deborah Gross Torraca @ Wizard of Paws. 

https://www.wiz.....sultation/

You can also get a consult with Dr. Couto via email.  I've done this a number of times over the years for cancer and other strange symptoms.  I've spent the $1800 on an MRI only for it to be inconclusive.  

https://www.gre.....sadopters/

I have a physical therapist who comes to the house for the dogs.  It makes my life a lot easier but greyhounds, even the spooky ones, tend to love physical therapy.  As retired elite athletes, they never stop seeing themselves as the fastest AND strongest dog around so they do things as they age that can cause injury.  

Her proprioception is off on the hind legs?  All the time or some of the time?  How bad is it?   Do you ever see her drag her toes?  This may sound odd to ask but have  you heard any changes in her bark in the last year or so?  Does she clear her chest when she stands up after a long sleep or after eating?  

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9 August 2019 - 8:08 pm
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ohmynixon said
I'm the greyhound person.  Having a spooky greyhound is never easy.  I forgot the bloodline that caused this but those of us who have had a spook do understand what you're going through.  My Toughie loved to go for walks and visit people but he didn't do well in a car at all.  He was fine in a minivan packed with other greyhounds but would stress out so badly when traveling with just me and our other greyhound Kitty or solo.

Nixon was injured by a physical therapist at NC State one week after his amputation.   He stood for 8 hours straight and caused a horrible strain/soft tissue injury in his neck.  He was also a front leg amputation.  He was unable to get up by himself for several weeks and he screamed each time he stood up for about a minute anyway.  It did eventually heal but it did delay all of our treatment options.   While he was healing from that, we used laser therapy to help with the pain. 

Although I won't recommend the rehab center at NC State, I have worked with some amazing vets who specialize in physical therapy.  If traveling is stressful right now, I would see about getting a phone consult with Deborah Gross Torraca @ Wizard of Paws. 

https://www.wiz.....sultation/

You can also get a consult with Dr. Couto via email.  I've done this a number of times over the years for cancer and other strange symptoms.  I've spent the $1800 on an MRI only for it to be inconclusive.  

https://www.gre.....sadopters/

I have a physical therapist who comes to the house for the dogs.  It makes my life a lot easier but greyhounds, even the spooky ones, tend to love physical therapy.  As retired elite athletes, they never stop seeing themselves as the fastest AND strongest dog around so they do things as they age that can cause injury.  

Her proprioception is off on the hind legs?  All the time or some of the time?  How bad is it?   Do you ever see her drag her toes?  This may sound odd to ask but have  you heard any changes in her bark in the last year or so?  Does she clear her chest when she stands up after a long sleep or after eating?  

  

Hi,

thank you so much for your reply. What a horrible situation you were in with your Nixon! Im sorry to hear. How can someone make it worse for an already injured dog. Poor Nixon. How long did it took him to heal? how did you know it was strain/soft tissue problem? We live in Vancouver, Canada, so no chance I will go to that clinic! However it would've been nice to know where to go and what place to avoid. It must've been horrendous to hear your baby cry at every move like this. Knowing how stoic they are. Coco never even cried with her cancer in her wrist that was at risk of breaking, but she cries on and off moving her neck. We feel it may be getting better though.

As of her hind legs, it's not that bad, enough to scrape her two middle nails, one foot more than other. We put thick tape since boots or claw covers don't really work. I also think it's because of gabapentin we are giving. She's also on amantadine and used to be on meloxicam. We are now trying to wean her off galliprant that we started after meloxicam. I find her a little stone from meds.

She's really not a barker. I haven't heard her bark in long time. She used to growl are other dogs and cats but hasn't since surgery. I don't think there was any difference. Also by clearing chest, do you mean like stretching? Sorry, I feel like I didn't answer any of your questions. What would be the cause of these symptoms? 

I have been in touch with Dr Couto since her limp started. I've email him recently because we are trying to fix her kidney values, her UPCR are really high and the meds weren't working so he suggested an additional medication. We are going to do another urinalysis this Tuesday and if the meds we are using now aren't working again, we will add what he suggested. I've also lowered a bit her protein intake. 

I am looking for a physical therapist in Vancouver area. We don't have many options here. Know anyone that may know? We don't mind travelling for short distance. She never mind car trips just now I'm a bit scared because of the motion of the car and her sometimes wanting to stand up, which could make her neck worse with strain. But then we don't really know the problem with it. 

I am looking into the link you sent earlier of the therapist.

Thank you so much for reading and helping out. 

    

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9 August 2019 - 8:14 pm
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jerry said
I'm really sorry, what a tough situation.

We could try physio, although I don’t see her doing well. She’ll probably have a heart attack before even stepping into the pool. 

Physio is about so much more than hydrotherapy. Gentle massage, e-stim and other modalities can provide pain relief. Where exactly are you located? I think you're in the UK right? If so, we have members there. Maybe they can help us find a home visit therapist for you. Have you asked the acupuncturist or surgeon for home visit practitioner referrals? My guess is you have at least one nearby.

It's OK to say "no more diagnostics," that's understandable considering what kind of dog she is. It sounds like the best thing you can do at this point is to help manage the pain as best you can, so that she can find a new normal and feel good. 

You are in a tough spot but putting so much thought and love into Coco's situation. Try to stay pawsitive and you and her medical team will find a way to get your girl's sparkle back. (((hugs)))

  

Hi thank you,

we are located in Vancouver, BC in Canada. Do you have therapist you can recommend here?  The clinic where we had surgery does have rehab centre. However, Coco is petrified of the place, and it's about 1.5 hrs from our home. Our vet isn't helpful either with this kind of things. We had to contact our greyhound friends to find acupuncture.

I am looking into it now, and if you have a place you can recommend, please let us know! 

thank you so much! 

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