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DannyBoy's 14 Day Post Amp, Question about Grains
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Canyon Lake, Texas
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3 September 2010 - 11:25 am
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Well today DannyBoy gets his stitches out. It's been an adventure so far but he's hopping around with lots of energy. He goes upstairs and down with no problem. His appetite is still not as good as I'd like it to be. He's been eating a chicken breast followed by a mix of half a can Evo turkey & chicken and Evo  turkey & chicken dry.  He seems to like it…for this week anyway. He doesn't eat the snacks he used to like, doesn't like milkbones anymore…yet. My Vet says that they should not be totally grain free ? Anyone else told that? If so, what supplement foods can give them that little bit of grain they need?

We also have a consult with an oncologist on Tuesday to determine what chemo agent(s) to give him. Doxy with carboplatin seems the best…not sure what her protocol is. Been doing research but still undecided. Hopefully the consult will make up our mind.

DannyBoy turned 8 on May 25th 2010

DannyBoy was diagnosed with osteosarcoma of the front left leg August 10, 2010

DannyBoy's amputation was August 20, 2010

The Rainbow Bridge



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3 September 2010 - 12:43 pm
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Heyyy DannyBoy, good to see you here. Hope you don't mind I moved your post here to “Eating Healthy,” since your main question was about grains.

Please understand that we aren't vets, and none of us ever want to go against what your vet tells you. But your oncologist will probably have more comprehensive information about nutrition, plus you can also check out our Nutrition Blog for more tips.

Here's what a lot of us here have learned about cancer…

There is a lot of information available by doctors and nutritionists that point to the fact that carbs, grains and starches (which turns to sugars in our bodies) feed cancer cells. Avoiding sugars is one o the keys to fighting cancers, which is why most of us go on a grain-free diet. Here's what Dr. Dressler, the Dog Cancer Vet, says about grains:

Why You Should Avoid Most Comon Grains

…Notice, however, there are no added sugars and very few grains on this list. That is not only because these foods are not in their natural diet.

It is also because these foods feed cancer, not your dog. Here's why:

Carbohydrates come in the form of sugars (simple carbohydrates) or starches (complex carbohydrates). Cancer prefer simple carbohydrates as their main fuel source.

The easier it is for a startch to be broken into simple sugars, the more the cancer will like it, because cancer likes to get food fast and with minimal work. (Think about how i steals blood vessels from neighboring cells and breaks down muscles for food, rather than waiting to be bed by the body).

In other words, cancer is a junk food junkie.

Very few dog lovers actually feed their dog pure sugar, but many feed their dogs carbohydrates without realizing it.”

Dr. Demian Dressler, DVM, The Dog Cancer Survival Guide

You're off to a great start by feeding Evo, as long as it's grain-free . Milk Bones (assuming you're talking about the actual brand?), are full of things you'll want to avoid while fighting cancer. There are tons of much healthier treats available and if you're handy in the kitchen, we have some recipes here in the forums and in our Tripawds Nutrition blog.

One of the reasons DannyBoy might not be as hungry as he was is because he's not burning up energy as much, since his activity has been reduced. So it's not all bad as long as he wants to keep eating his other foods. Remember, helping his stay slim is critical for getting along well on three legs!

Hope this helps answer your question!

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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3 September 2010 - 5:16 pm
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I would agree with Jerry that EVO is a good grain free diet and they do make a treat that goes along with it.  I would also mention that you might want to search this site for info on carboplatin because some new research suggests that 6 doses of carboplatin is superior to any combo protocol.

Pam

Canyon Lake, Texas
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5 September 2010 - 10:21 am
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Thanks for the info. One of the side affects of changing diet from grain based to Evo can/dry mix is the less consistancy in the poo I guess. Seems his is much looser, close to diarhea but not. That's why my question on grain supplement. Really want no grain…but looking to bolster his consistancy. Any suggestions?

My Vet told me his protocol would be 3 rounds of Doxy and 3 rounds of Carboplatin…as opposed to a 2 dose round recommendation from a San Antonio Vet…Hmmm. At least I hope I'm quoting them correctly.

DannyBoy turned 8 on May 25th 2010

DannyBoy was diagnosed with osteosarcoma of the front left leg August 10, 2010

DannyBoy's amputation was August 20, 2010

Portage Lake, Maine
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5 September 2010 - 10:38 am
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There many varieties of commercial foods you could try…  I would search for something low in carbs and something that doesn't cause your boy to have loose stools.  I don't feed kibble or canned(I feed Honest Kitchen dehydrated Embark, Thrive or Preference with Primal ground raw meats added) but have heard rave reviews about Orijen dry for cancer dogs.  I actually have used it for treats..I like it very much and would consider that kiibble if I fed dry.

I would ditch the “Milk bones” for sure.  As was said earlier, there are many more healthy treats available. 

Dr. Dressler does say that oatmeal and brown rice are “OK” to add to a cancer diet.  I recommend his book to see his amounts though that are allowed in his diet.  IMO, if you can keep the carb levels down to 18%, you're doing good for your cancer dog.  Dr. Ogilvie's homemade cancer diet is 17.8% so I use that as a guide for my numbers 🙂

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

The Rainbow Bridge



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5 September 2010 - 10:39 am
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Sweet potatoes or canned pumpkin pulp (unsweetened) will firm things up. The canned food and medications can cause runny poo too. Feeding straight kibble results in firmer stools (there’s practically no moisture in kibble) but they need to drink more water to compensate.

Have you decided which vet to go to for the chemo?

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
Latest Tripawds News
Read my story here.

Support the Tripawds Foundation!

Zaks mom
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7 September 2010 - 12:35 pm
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dannyboy said:

 My Vet says that they should not be totally grain free ? Anyone else told that? If so, what supplement foods can give them that little bit of grain they need?

We also have a consult with an oncologist on Tuesday to determine what chemo agent(s) to give him. Doxy with carboplatin seems the best…not sure what her protocol is. Been doing research but still undecided. Hopefully the consult will make up our mind.


Hi & welcome..

In my opinion, grain free kibble is the way to go. Evo is the brand I would use. I feed it to my non-OS dog. I do home-cooked for my OS dog. I mix some rice to the moslty meat diet in it but not much rice. Carbs feed the cancer that's why I keep it to a minimum.

Supplements are important too – Giving algae based DHA is important 1500-2000mg/day. (I use Deva DHA) Also giving a mushroom Agaricus Blaziel from a company called Atlas World due to their extraction process. Both are shown to slow the cancer. I give about 25 pills a day of different supp's to Zak & I think its helped slow the cancer.

Your combo of Doxo & Carbo is a good one. I think going with a duel agent helps combat the cancer better. It is what we did.

Jenna & Zak –

12 yr old rtvr, 1/24/09 Amp & chemo

Orange County, CA
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8 September 2010 - 10:33 pm
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jerry said:

Sweet potatoes or canned pumpkin pulp (unsweetened) will firm things up. 


Both of these things worked like a charm when we needed to firm Max's poo up.  They work for a lot of dog problems, not just cancer.  I don't know what the pumpkin situation is in Texas, but thanks to a pumpkin shortage here in California I can't find a can of pumpkin to save my life.  I needed it the other day, too.  Our idiot puppy ate a pebble or something and had a nasty case of diarrhea while it was working its way through his system.  A little pumpkin would have gone a long way.
Greater Western Washington area
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9 September 2010 - 3:54 am
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Zaks mom,

Where do you buy your suppliments?  Is it in a specialty dog food store or at a regular store?

Diagnosed with osteosarcoma in the right front leg 8/23/10,

leg fractured 8/27/10,

leg amputated 8/30/10

http://sammyand.....pawds.com/

 

I couldn't begin to say how special Sammy is to us.  Living and laughing with and loving this wonderful boy is priceless.

Portage Lake, Maine
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9 September 2010 - 6:44 am
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Just thought I'd add that Honest Kitchen's supplement called “Perfect Form” is GREAT for loose poop issues 🙂  I use it on my other dog at times…

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

Here and Now


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9 September 2010 - 9:56 am
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fightingforsammy said:

Where do you buy your suppliments? 

We hope all members will consider supporting Tripawds by shopping our Featured Blogs first. The Nutrition Blog includes a number of popular supplements and a selection of online vitamin and herbal supplement superstores. You can also search Amazon here which often has some of the best prices.

Zaks mom
12
9 September 2010 - 12:20 pm
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fightingforsammy said:

Zaks mom,

Where do you buy your suppliments?  Is it in a specialty dog food store or at a regular store?


 
Hi – I did a lot of research over several months & came up with a blend of them.. Also consulting with my oncologist for his input. He's got a lot of experience fighting OS in dogs.

I buy them from VitaPal.com & Iherb.com mostly.. 3 are Rx's and I get those from Costco. (you don't need to be a member to use Costco's pharm & the savings are huge)

Here's his supplement list before he had some probs with his kidneys.. 

AM – 1 CARAFATE (hour before meal)

1 TAB PEPCID AC 20mg (20min prior to meal)

1 TAB PROBIOTIC (20min prior to meal)

1 CAPSULE DOXOCYCLINE 100mg

1 CAPSULE PIROXICAM 7mg

1 CAPSULE GLUCOSAMINE 1000mg

1 CAPSULE IP-6

1/2 TAB SELENIUM 125mg

1 CAPSULE CoQ10 100mg

1 TAB GARLIC 150mg

1 TAB GLUTAMINE 500mg

1 TAB ARGININE 500mg

1 CAPSULES AGARICUS BLAZEI 600mg (Atlas World)

1 CAPSULE REISHI 600mg (Soloray)

4 CAPSULES OF ALGAE DHA 200 mg EACH

_____________________

PM – 1 CARAFATE (hour before meal)

1 TAB PEPCID AC 20mg (20min prior to meal)

1 TAB PROBIOTIC (20min prior to meal)

1 CAPSULE DOXOCYCLINE 100mg

1000MG GLUCOSAMINE TABLET

1 CAPSULE CoQ10 50mg

1 TABLET GARLIC 150mg

1 TAB GLUTAMINE 500mg

1 CAPSULE AGARICUS BLAZEI 600mg

1 CAPSULE REISHI 600mg

4 CAPSULES OF DHA 200 mg EACH

 

Jenna & Zak –

12 yr old rtvr, 1/24/09 Amp & chemo

Portland, Oregon
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9 September 2010 - 6:19 pm
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Hi Danny BOy! I looked for your blog but you don't have one. Are you going to start one? We would love to read more about you. YOu are similar to Indi. Indi turned 8 on April 1, 2010, and had her front left leg amputate on August 31. Pop on over to our blog and say hi. http://indi.tripawds.com

I found your post because I'm looking for answers to grain questions, too. Mainly, I want to bulk up Indi's home made raw food diet. I don't want to buy kibble, especially since the brand everyone recommends, Inova, got bought by P&G and now who knows what is going on. I make Indi's food with raw veggies, meat, and some dairy, but she is still hungry so I'm looking to bulk it up. My latest idea is sweet potatoes. Cooked, of course.

Indi the Saint Bernard mix had her front left leg amputated on August 31, 2010. She crossed over the rainbow bridge on December 17, 2010, because of a spinal injury, not related to cancer.

Here and Now


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9 September 2010 - 6:31 pm
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indi said:

…the brand everyone recommends, Inova, got bought by P&G and now who knows what is going on.

We do! laugh Check out this Tripawds Nutrition blog post for premium grain free kibble alternatives.

Zaks mom
15
9 September 2010 - 8:36 pm
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indi said:

I found your post because I'm looking for answers to grain questions, too. Mainly, I want to bulk up Indi's home made raw food diet. I don't want to buy kibble, especially since the brand everyone recommends, Inova, got bought by P&G and


 

Hi-

There's always a different opinions out thre but Evo by Nutra is the brand most people I know recommend for an OS dog.. & its grain free .. If you do kibble its a solid way to go.. Home-cooked is best if possible.

 

Jenna & Zak –

12 yr old rtvr, 1/24/09 Amp & chemo

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