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To Elizabeth and anyone that I might help
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Member Since:
14 April 2010
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29 January 2012 - 6:32 am
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Elizabeth, your statement of killing Sammy was something I couldn't get out of my mind last night, and as I thought about it some things came to mind that I hope will help you or anyone else that has come to that point where THAT decision has to be made. Lets spin things around a little bit. Last year a guy I worked for died, was 90, and when I went to the calling hours I was shocked when his daughter told me he had committed suicide. He had left a note saying how much he loved all of his family.... but he couldn't take the pain anymore. All of us know this cancer journey sucks, and the emotional as well as financial stress it puts us all through because WE have to make the decisions based on what we and our vets are seeing in our dogs, but we really don't know how THEY feel, either with or without help from medication, surgery,etc. My point is as much as we want to try everything we can to keep these guys around, and by no means am I trying to talk you out of your cart or any other ideas Elizabeth, but if the time comes for you or anyone that all options have either been exhausted or failed, we all have a sense of guilt in having to make that gut wrenching decision,  we have always said our decisons are based on quality of life for these guys. It makes me wonder if when that time has come that we have finally said I think it is time, that our beloved dog isn't looking at us saying thank you, I love you and I love you for letting me go and ending my pain. We have all heard of stories where people end there own life because they can't take the pain, dogs don't have that option, and as gut wrenching and hard as it is for us to come to terms with that, it's part of the responsibility we take on when we bring these guys into our lives. I am hoping you can find a solution that helps Sammy, but please feel as you gave him the best life he would have ever had, as everyone here has done for there own dogs. I've said it before, I think because of what we have gone through because of this crap, it is harder to let them go, but thats the great part of this family, we all know those feelings and no one will ever say you did it wrong. But if we were to look at it from the dogs side, how many times would they say as much as I love you, I have had enough, please help me end the pain. Good luck Elizabeth, here's to hoping you can get him stronger. Paws up to you and Sammy, Spirit Gus and Dan 

My buddy Gus had a left front amputation on April 7, 2010 and lived a great life until July 26,2010

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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29 January 2012 - 6:57 am
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There are a lot of words of wisdom in Dan's theory. We truly don't know the amount of suffering involved in the heroic decisions we make to keep them with us a little longer. Cancer is a painful disease, and sometimes it manifests in unknown places where they could be hurting and we don't even know. I think I could have benefited from Dan's words when we were facing the end with Trouble. It is harder for us because of the cancer journey, there are more emotions involved, we do fight harder.

I've never gotten over the guilt of having to let Trouble go - probably the true reason I have such a hard time being on the forum. Even though my practical self knows I did everything I could, the rest of me feels that I failed the task put before me. Hopefully Dan's words can help others avoid the baggage I carry.

Thank you Dan for being who you are, for not being afraid to share a point that may not be readily accepted.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.


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29 January 2012 - 8:03 am
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Very well said, Dan.  Even as a vet I had a hard time letting Tazzie go and I still sometimes think "maybe I should have done an MRI?" but the fact is that Tazzie had gone as far as she could.  It is very difficult after fighting so long to reach the end.  

Elizabeth, I still think that that it is worth trying water therapy on Sammy but also please remember that you have to be able to feed yourself and your family and high-cost tests like an MRI or CT scan are unlikely to change the treatment plan.  We are all pulling for Sammy to get more mobility soon!

Pam

Greater Western Washington area
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29 January 2012 - 9:30 am
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Dan,

I am so glad you put this out here.  When I wrote that I was really torn about the wording.  Put to sleep sounds so kind, put down is a little less "nice", there are so many other words I could've used, but in my mind, the reality is I would be killing my sweetest boy, my love, a soul who is completely innocent and trusting in me to save him.

It was my anger at Sammy's situation that makes me see it like that.  I am relieved to read of your view, because I hadn't thought of it like that.  He can't ask for help, and I really don't know for sure how he feels about not being able to move, go potty, walk, or get a drink of water without help.  I don't know when he whines to me if he is in pain, or just asking for help or for me to give him something.  You are right, this journey has brought he and I so much closer, the stakes are now so much higher because of our connection.  I would do anything for him, if he asked me to end his suffering, it would crush my heart, but I would.  I even have considered in the last couple of days finding him a home with someone who could give him everything I cannot to get better.  That would be as painful for me, but I would know he was safe. 

The thing with that choice is, he loves me too, he may feel I abandoned him and I think we need to see this life through together.  I don't know if that is selfish or not.  I think of King Solomon's story about the mothers who both claim the baby and the real mother is willing to give him away instead of having him split in half.  I know Sammy would love whoever he was with, he is just a wonderful boy.  But, in my heart, I believe he would want to be with me.

So, thank you Dan, and Shanna and Pam.  I love it here, because we DO all know how this feels and can find compassion and help from the best of people. 

Elizabeth and Sammy

Diagnosed with osteosarcoma in the right front leg 8/23/10,

leg fractured 8/27/10,

leg amputated 8/30/10

http://sammyand.....pawds.com/

 

I couldn't begin to say how special Sammy is to us.  Living and laughing with and loving this wonderful boy is priceless.

knoxville, tn
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29 January 2012 - 9:42 am
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having been down this road twice in the past year, i understand the feeling of not wanting to let go.  i have stated on several occasions that i'd rather err on the side of 'a day too soon' than ' a day too late'.  that being said, i think, elizabeth, that you obviously are the family that sammy knows, and removing from his normal to live in a totally new environment would be so shocking for him...would his thought be - what did i do wrong that elizabeth doesn't want me??  he is where he should be, for now. 

 

but, if what you said is true,

 

He can't ask for help, and I really don't know for sure how he feels about not being able to move, go potty, walk, or get a drink of water without help.  I don't know when he whines to me if he is in pain, or just asking for help or for me to give him something.

 

then it is very concerning that he is in such an immobile state.  not how a dog is meant to live his life, and i know it is obviously tearing you up inside.  as i've said before, when it was time, jane and gayle both told me.  they were ready.  i wasn't necessarily ready, but it wasn't about me anymore, it was about ending suffering, and letting them move on to the next part of their journey.  it was a final, selfless act, to let them go, and we have no regrets in our decision.  we know their spirits continue, and perhaps that made it a bit easier.

know that we are all here for you, and wish only the best for sammy through all of this.  he is such a wonderful, happy boy, who has been such a friend to all of us.  give him a hug and kiss from his gayle and her pack.

 

charon & spirit gayle

Life is good, so very, very good!!! Gayle enjoyed each and every moment of each and every wonderful day (naps included).  She left this world December 12, 2011 – off on a new adventure.

Love Never Ends

http://etgayle

San Diego, CA
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29 January 2012 - 9:44 am
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I will share what our vet told us when we took Abby in for that last appointment...

She was still very happy - wagging her tail and eating treats like crazy, kissing everyone. But - she couldn't breathe when she would lay down. She had given me The Look that afternoon and I knew she was done. I said to the vet it was so hard since she seemed to happy (except when lying down). He said everyone wants to pass happy and peaceful. (Don't we all kinda hope we'll just drift off in our sleep some day, looooong down the road?) No one wants to die in great pain and suffering. Sometimes people do though. But with our pups, it doesn't have to be that way. We have this great gift to be able to give, to let them go while they are still smiling.

I know a lot of folks say they have guilt from letting their dog go. I don't. (which is odd cuz I'm usually all about the guilt...) But she gave me that look and I KNEW she was done. I'd have guilt if I kept her around any longer, because it would have been for me and not for her.

Big hugs and strenght being sent out to anybody in the position of having to make this tough decision. It ain't easy, but sometimes we have to do things that aren't easy.
Jackie, Angel Abby's mom

Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!

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29 January 2012 - 10:22 am
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I too send hugs and strength to anyone facing this decision - it sucks. Sam was my first pet ever so i had never been through the process of making this heartbreaking decision. I had so many sleepless nights worrying about "the right time" - everyone says you'll know, but I feared I wouldn't. In the end, we got "the look" and we have absolutely no regrets. Sam was still happy, eating well and going outside on his own....but he wasn't himself. Our oncologist explained it best....he shifted from living to existing. Dogs can exist for a while with medical treatment....but should they? Our decision was clear....he had fought too hard to exist....and he was not going to get better. We were willing to do anything possible to let him live with cancer....and he lived large....but after his brave fight, we didn't think it was fair to let him just exist with it. As we shared in our blog....brave warriors were meant to live, not exist. It's a crappy decision to make....we all just need to balance what is right for us and our pups.

Again, all our thoughts for strength to anyone facing this decision. Xo sue

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29 January 2012 - 11:13 am
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Holy Moly, please don't consider tring to find someone who might be able to afford some type of treatment, Elizabeth, you are Sammys support. Again, turn the table, when a kid gets a good report card, we always wanted to show our mom and dad, not the neighbor. So just think if you do some type of therapy, or whatever treatment you might try, he wants to show YOU how well he is doing, and I think your right, he would wonder what he did wrong, so to put him with people he doesn't know might be worse since he could very well just give up, no matter how much someone would spend because he isn't with you, so I would hope that was just a passing thought, and I really think the guilt you would feel would be so overwhelming you would regret it the rest of your life. Hopefully you come up with a solution that helps him, I had a feeling the pressure you have been under because of his current situation has your head spinning, thats what we are here for, to help think things through in the tough times. And WHEN the time comes, as gut wrenching as it is, you will be the one he was with at that time, and believe me, that is something that will give you comfort for a long, long time, and something you will NEVER regret  {{{{{{{smile}}}}}}

My buddy Gus had a left front amputation on April 7, 2010 and lived a great life until July 26,2010

New Zealand
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29 January 2012 - 11:39 am
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Two years ago we had a kitten which we got just after our precious cat Jimmy died after a long battle (which in the end included his leg getting amputated) with a spider bite. Zeus was the kittens name and one day a few weeks after we got him he was lethargic and really sick, with white gums so I rushed him into the vets, by the time we got there he was almost in a coma. turned out he had a blockage or something wrong in his gut, the vet offered to operated and try to fix it but said he had a high chance of not making it. We had the money at the time to afford the operation but I just couldn't do that to him, he was so ill and in so much pain that I had to let him go. That was a hard choice as the kids were having big issues with the loss of Jimmy but I had to do what I thought was best for Zeus, the poor wee thing was only two months old and had slipped unconsious by the time the vet gave him the injection, and my heart broke for the second time in as many months. Having pets seems to involve too much pain in our family but I still wouldn't be without them!!!

That choice is a hard one that we all have to make at some stage and while it does involve alot of unnessesary guilt it really is the best gift we can give to our much loved pets.

Sarah and Kayla

Washington
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1 February 2011
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29 January 2012 - 11:48 am
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Having gone through this same gut-wrenching decision just a week ago, I know how difficult it is. Making the journey together brings such a bond, almost as if you become two parts of a whole. And saying goodbye becomes more akin to severing an appendage (ironically).

But after all the surgeries and the chemo treatments and the radiation treatments and the testing and poking and prodding that I'd already subjected my Rio to, to watch her suffer unnecessarily for even a moment would have caused me more guilt than letting her go. And although my heart is broken without her, I know I did right by her, and that thought gives me more comfort than any other.

Only you know the best for both your family, your finances, for you, and for Sammy, Elizabeth. And you know if there's enough of the Sammy spark still left to fight. In Rio's case, the light, the spark in her was fading, and I could tell she was just too tired to keep fighting. And you will see this too, in Sammy, when it's time. And then it will feel less like "killing him" than simply saying goodbye and sending him on his way with love.

the Woo

~ ~ Rio ~ ~
Forever in my heart...

April 2000 – January 20, 2012
Diagnosed with Mast Cell Cancer in June 2007. Left rear leg amputated Feb. 8, 2011.
Mets discovered Aug. 31, 2011. Read more of Rio's story here.

Peoria, IL
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29 January 2012 - 12:15 pm
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Oh, Elizabeth, you are breaking our hearts because everyone here has gone through the same agony. It is truly a horrible feeling to hold your beloved baby's life in your hands. But who better to make that decision? You are not selfish — far from it. No one loves him more than you do and he is right where he belongs.

It is unfortunate that financial considerations have any part in this, but they do. Logically, though, there comes a time that we have to realize that no matter how much money we throw at this monstrous disease it won't change the outcome. That is hard to accept because we feel responsible for their welfare. When Sammy died, Rick put his head down and sobbed, saying, "Sammy, we did everything we could …"

Doing everything you can means exactly that: doing all that is beneficial, reasonable and fair — to both of you. You are important in this equation, too.

I wrote several times toward the end of Sammy's life asking for advice on how to know when. Now, I've started to liken it to childbirth — you know, I think I am in labor, I think I am in labor, OMG, I AM IN LABOR!

You may remember that Sammy stopped being mobile several weeks before he died. We would carry him outside and, until the last few days, he could stand long enough to potty. The last couple of days he couldn't stand and didn't go. Like with people, when dogs don't move around, their organs can start to shut down. He started to whimper and his beautiful amber eyes locked with ours. It was the look. It was time and no matter how much we wanted to keep him — to save him — we knew we couldn't. Our wonderful vet came to our home and we set him free.

I hope with all my heart that your Sammy's mobility returns. Every case is different. But, Elizabeth, we all know — even if you doubt yourself — Sammy is in the best possible place. Whatever you decide to do won't be wrong.

Much love and hugs,

Beth and Spirit Smilin' Sammy

Smilin' Sammy, March 16, 2004 – Dec. 5, 2011
Golden retriever, diagnosed with osteosarcoma in September 2010 — right front leg amputated November 2010. He fought valiantly to stay with us; but a second diagnosis of osteosarcoma, this time in his left front leg, was more than our golden warrior could overcome. He loved his pack — and everyone else he met.

We loved him even more.
Thanks for the pennies, Sammy. They helped.

On The Road


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29 January 2012 - 2:33 pm
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Hi everpawdy, I hope you don't mind my moving this post here but it's such a helpful, comforting discussion that's leaning toward "coping with loss" so I thought it would be more useful here.

What I would add to this incredibly brave discussion (thank you for starting it Dan) is, when we get the awful cancer diagnosis, or any other bad news that will mean an untimely death, it's so important to specifically determine what circumstances/behaviors will indicate to humans when it's time to release their dogs from their pain, from their broken bodies, and help them onto their next journey.

These markers are different depending on the medical situation at hand, but there seems to be some basic physiological needs that determine when animals have lost their dignity and are ready to move on…

For example, when I got sick, my folks decided that if my health had deteriorated to the point when I could not go to potty by myself, or the lung mets prevented me from doing what I loved best, chasing sticks and running on the beach, it would be my time. That was their way of being my medical advocate, my guardian, my best friend, and it's what all pawrents must do for their animals.

We made that pact during the earliest stages of my disease, and we vowed not to change our minds no matter what. It hurt like hell when we all knew I had reached that point, but it also helped get me through the end of life journey with dignity. And now, there are no regrets because my wishes were carried out exactly as I wanted them to be.

Sure, my folks questioned their decision a few times, since there are often things medicine can do to ease the pain or prolong life, but the big question is, what kind of life will an animal have if their humans continue intervening with medicine? To avoid the inevitable end of life decision is not doing our animals' justice. Humans must face this time of our life with dignity and courage, just as all animals face each and every day they are on this planet. It is the greatest lesson we teach humans, but the hardest one for them to learn.

Elizabeth, we really do hope that Sammy's mobility comes back, we want nothing more and we are all sending lots of love and positive energy your way.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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29 January 2012 - 3:13 pm
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I found this in the Dog Cancer blog by Dr Demian Dressler and posted it in the k9caner.org forum. It talks about being the guardian of a dog with cancer and how important it is for you to be the advocate. It's a good read:

DogCancerBlog: Guardian Versus Dog Lover in Dog Cancer

Rene or one of the mods, I'm on a connection where I can't dress up the url. Please do so for me!

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

Chicago, IL
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29 January 2012 - 4:31 pm
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There is so much wisdom in this thread but I have to comment anyway and at the risk of heresy, I’ll admit that I had way more guilt about Tate’s amputation than I did about putting him down.

We all talk constantly about how dogs live in the moment.  They don’t have the brain parts to think about the future, they don’t even know about death.  That is the joy of dogs, they are in the moment.

When we were faced with the amputation decision, I said, “I just want him to have one more summer at the cabin.”   Would Tate have chosen amputation for a summer at the cabin?  Frankly, that is reduction to the ridiculous.  He was a dog.  I don’t think I could have loved my own child more than I loved Tate…but he was still a dog.

On the day that he died, after I had sobbed and paced and wailed and cried myself to exhaustion, I fell asleep.  When I woke up, I was sitting up in bed just considering everything that had happened, losing my mom, losing Tate, wondering why and being sad.  And then I had this perfectly clear thought about Tate:  “The amputation was for me.”

I resisted this.  After all, that would be the ultimate selfish act, right?  I’ve spent a lot of time on this, a lot of time thinking and reading about and honestly, trying to convince myself that I did it for Tate, not for me.  But that’s not true.  I did it for me.

So I had this guilt thing going.  I needed Tate, more than I can explain.  If I’d lost him last spring, it would have been unbearable, I would have been crazy with shock and grief.  I couldn’t have taken care of my mom.  I wanted Tate to be there with me through the last months of my own mother’s life. 

I thought about my mom, about how my siblings and I made every hard decision by the guideline “What is best for Mom?”  “Best” did not mean the longest life, it meant the best quality of life.  If you’ve ever had medical power of attorney, you know exactly what I mean.  We do the same for our dogs, but dogs are not people, and it is okay to consider what is best for us and our families in the equation. 

These are hard decisions, no doubt.  And they are also very personal decisions.  But they have to be honest decisions.  Elizabeth, this is not directed at you or at anyone else here.  I truly believe that whatever decisions we make – these are, by definition, right.  This is just some food for thought for everyone reading this that is faced with these kinds of difficult decisions.

http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.

Las Vegas, Nevada
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29 January 2012 - 6:46 pm
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On the day that he died, after I had sobbed and paced and wailed and cried myself to exhaustion, I fell asleep.  When I woke up, I was sitting up in bed just considering everything that had happened, losing my mom, losing Tate, wondering why and being sad.  And then I had this perfectly clear thought about Tate:  “The amputation was for me.”

I resisted this.  After all, that would be the ultimate selfish act, right?  I've spent a lot of time on this, a lot of time thinking and reading about and honestly, trying to convince myself that I did it for Tate, not for me.  But that’s not true.  I did it for me.

Jan,

I admire your bravely in writing this.  I understand.  But please remember back at the time that when you did it, you thought it was for him because you are a nurturer and wanted to fix him.  He was so young and it seemed right.  Please, please don't think you were being selfish at the time of the amputation.  Hindsight is always clearer. 

Plus, we wouldn't have met you had you not.  And I'm so glad we did!  Thank you Tate for that!  

 

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

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