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Your insight...Prednisone or Piroxacam (or other) for HAPPY HANNAH with these "symptons". Thankyou!
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Virginia




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11 March 2014 - 10:05 am
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Happy Hannah was on Piroxacam for four days (15 mg. 123 lbs.). It was ledt over from previous supply. Has now been OFF four days as new order just now came in.

Since previus post, she's been "holdng steady" (YAAAY!). Still rests a lot and tires easiy. Very, very, very happy and engaged when not resring.!

Still eating her meals okay...just not begging non-stop which is a pattern change for here. But again, it's the same as it was a week or so afo. So she's still eating, drinking okay.

The "issue" that seems to come amd go....and it seems to happen more at night. She sits up, jas the "look" of something bothering her...a lot of times she looks towards her back-end...she'll get whiney and restless The breathing gets more labored (not horriblyso, but oticebly so..if that makes sensez) and pantng. The episodes last maybe several minutes and then she settles down. And when she's whiney, ahe'll be looking at me and the second I say something, she'll wag and her look kknda' turns more relaxed...I can give her a treat during this time and she always eats it.

Massaging, rubbing doesn't seem to ndicated any reactin to pain anywhere. She's walking fine...moving fine.

Okay, trying to give you as much info. as I can without makingyou cross-eyed!

While she was on the Piroxacam she jad the "spells"..and so etimes ot...while she's been off the Piroxacam...has had the spells, so etmes not. I have given her a 50 mg. Tramadol on the nights there seemed to be more than two ti es...and quite frankly, I can't tell is she just didn't have anymore...because she didn't...or because of the tramadol...or because of the Pirox. ...or ot....if that makes ANY sense!!

Sooooo, my vet (who is not an onco. and doesn't pretend to be)...suggests proceeding with Pirox. with the "possibility" it'll hold this piece of crap at bay a bit and help with any inflammation. He feels we could switch to Pred. if breathing issues get. worse.....but I know there wold be a wash-out period of four or five days...ugh.

ALSO, on the two weeks of Cephalexin (2,ooo mg. daily total) DID clear up the runny eyes and lessened the redness noticeably. Said I could go ahead and take her off if I wanted, but keep it handy.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR VALUED INSIGHT!! Tazzie could not be more proud to have you as her human and to carry on her life-affirming legacy!!!

BARNEY has been giving HAPPY HANNAH some "pills" in VERY small doses that seem to be helping...here...look!!

With love AND gratitude!! SOOO MUCH OF BOTH!!!

Sally and HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY HANNAH

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Virginia




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11 March 2014 - 10:17 am
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And YES, I kow chocolate is bad...but a few M & Ms when a dog has a baseball lung tumor ....... eat 'em up Happy Hannah! (And as Karen and Ug Maffie said...as BIG a girl as you are..that rhing's the quivalent of a dime!!

https://www.you.....ata_player

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Twin Cities, Minnesota
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11 March 2014 - 10:54 am
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I'm not a vet, Sally, but I will say that Sam was on pred, after starting out on Tramadol and Piroxicam. The issue became he wouldn't eat and was a mess of ulcers and GI upset on the piroxicam (I know Hannah doesn't have dogorexia, like Sampson did :D). Out of many of the commonly prescribed NSAIDS, Pirox also has the additional benefit of having shown some anti-tumor properties, but any benefits to that were outweighed by the fact that Sam wasn't eating.

I can't remember exactly when we switched (I'm sure it's in the blog), but he remained on a low dose of pred until his death. It helped his appetite, his inflammation (from arthritis, dysplasia, etc.), and his autoimmune issues--and I do think that it had the added benefit of easing his breathing. Frankly, I think the reason we didn't see any real symptoms until the very end (even though his lungs were filled with them) was b/c of the pred helping in that regard.

 

 

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul

Virginia




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11 March 2014 - 11:13 am
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Thanls Megan...glad you saw this because I knew the Sammer was helped by Pred. Yeah, this seems to be the same route the vet is suggesting.-.switch later toSam's protocol as needed.

IClearly her breathing pattern isn't 100% "normal" but there doesn't seem to be any stress associated with it for now...of course, there's the tiring, but she's not stressed about that.

Just not sure what these "episodes" are related too.....and can't tell which comes first when she has "them"...is her breathing uncomfortable first, or is it so ething else internaly causing her to have the breathingpattern change...guess it's splitting hairs.
Maybe I should keep her on a steady low dose of Tram now. So Sam was on steady dose of that roo, right?

Of course' when I say she loo,s at her back end like so ething's bugging her there...it could be she's looking towards her lung ... aube?? This hateful "thing" is in her ledt lung blttom near her diapram...I think he said.

Which I could just reach in there a take it out and smash it to smithereens..-after the whole tripawd community spits on it and torches it first.

NONE OF OUR FURBABIES SHOULD EVER HAVE TO ENDURE THIS!!

Did Sammer ever show any od those "episodes"? And when didyou make the switch to Piroxicam...what symptons was he showing?

THANK YOU SO MUCH! Hope all you pack is wel...ALL your amazing pack!!

Love,

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Westminster, MD
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11 March 2014 - 12:01 pm
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Hi Sally......I am sorry Hannah seems to be having one or two new bumps in the road. I don't really have any advice at all, but just want you to know, I offer my continuing love and support for you and Happy Hannah. My girls, both Polly and Maggie, died a bit quicker from their hemangiosarcoma cancers, so I don't have any experience with maintenance-type drugs, and neither of them ever had even one visible, tiny met on their lungs. All just sudden internal organ involvement on a very sneaky basis.

Staying as positive as possible for you, and sending good thoughts your way.......

Bonnie & my Angel Polly

Twin Cities, Minnesota
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11 March 2014 - 3:12 pm
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Not saying this is it, but one thing that happens as the mets get larger is they sort of compress the lungs, esp. when the dog is lying down. So they tend to shift positions a lot to try and get comfortable and take away that compression--it's why you'll often see them resort to sitting in the sphynx position. At night, especially, Sam used to fidget a lot, and then eventually get up and try and sleep like that (which obviously didn't work).

It COULD, of course, be not related to the mets at all--she could have tummy issues, or some sort of referred pain from something like trigger points or something else in her back end.

For us, switching to pred was an easy choice, b/c we were palliative only. Our time frame was somewhat compressed anyway, and what the Piroxicam MIGHT have gotten us was small, relatively speaking, since our goal was purely quality of life/pain relief, as opposed to slowing cancer growth as well, if that makes sense.

We took a pretty short washout--definitely not a week. Maybe only a few days, IIRC? And yes, we did low dose tramadol and pred the whole time. We also did the K9 Immunity Plus, FWIW.

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul

Fort Wayne, IN
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11 March 2014 - 3:26 pm
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Love, love, love the video!  I haven't gone through this yet, Sally, but my understanding is the piroxicam or whatever NSAID, first and then when she needs some respiratory relief, that's when the prednisone is used.  Libby is on metacam. I thought of switching her to peroxicam but she has a sensitive tummy as it is and she seems to be handling metacam o.k. so I didn't want to rock the boat at this point.

Hugs,

Amy & Libby

Liberty (Libby) was diagnosed with OSA on 1-22-13.  Right front amputation on 1-31-13. No IV Chemo. Metronomic Therapy started 2-19-13 along with supplements and some home cooking. Lungs clear until 1-06-14.  She's still her happy, hoppy, bossy self.  Living the dog life to the fullest and a proud Winter Warrior. :) RIP my Libby 4-21-03 to 3-19-14



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11 March 2014 - 7:24 pm
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Sally & Happy Hannah

Boy that Barney is a bad influence.  Getting Hannah to eat chocolate ;)

 

I will say with Sassy she definitely could not get comfortable the last couple of days of her life.  Not saying that is what is happening with Hannah.  I attributed it to the staph infection in her bladder.  But she was changing positions and sitting up and then laying down etc. But now know it was from the fluid that had built up.

 

Hugs

Michelle & Angel Sassy

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

Idaho
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11 March 2014 - 7:44 pm
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I think you are right Michelle. That Barney IS a bad influence. You noticed, didn't you, that he never even offered to share his own M&Ms?

Some friends long ago had a yellow lab called Bump. He liked the peanut M&Ms, but he would lay there and lick the candy coating for close to an hour. Then he would take the middle outside and bury it for later. Of course, he buried everything. One time they dug up a peanut butter and jelly sandwich while working in the garden.

And that kitty was trying to hijack the video again!

You are a real treat, Hannah.

kathi and Murphy

PS. It took me a minute to figure out who Ug Maffie was. LOL!

Murphy is a five year old Lab/Chessie cross. He was hit by a car on 10/29/12 and became a Tripawd on 11/24/12. On 2/5/13, he had a total hip replacement on his remaining back leg. He has absolutely no idea that he has only three legs!

UPDATE: Murphy lived his life to the fullest, right up until an aggressive bone lesion took him across the Rainbow Bridge on April 9, 2015 and he gained his membership in the April Angels. Run free, my love. You deserve it!

New Jersey
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11 March 2014 - 7:52 pm
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Hi Sally,

Just wanted to let you know that we're here and thinking about you and Happy Hannahsmiley I don't really have any medical knowledge to add, but I totally agree with you about this stinking cancer and that none of our furbabies should have to endure it.

Sending positive thoughts to you and your beautiful girlsuperstar

Joan and Lily

Our beautiful Lily was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in her front leg on 12/14/11 at age 8 and had amp on 12/16/11. She completed 5 rounds of carbo. She was so brave and kicked cancer's butt daily! She lived life fully for 4 years, 3 months, and 15 days after her amp. My angel is a warrior princess. I miss her so much.

The Rainbow Bridge



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11 March 2014 - 8:32 pm
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I'm with ya on that, let's stomp on that met! And M&Ms for everypawdy when it's over!

I should probably explain this for folks who weren't around when Pugapalooza Karen made this video. In 2011, Sweet Angel Abby had what she called "lung mints" and she named them Boris and Natasha. Karen made this video to honor all of the Tripawds who were fighting the Mints.

As for prednisone , I think that if you can manage a low, steady dose at this point it can probably help.

Back when it was our turn to try it, we didn't like the side effects but we also knew it was late in the game, we didn't have much time left together, so we didn't get to adjust the dosage down to a comfortable one that many are able to achieve and buy more quality time together. Something to consider.

 

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Virginia




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11 March 2014 - 9:56 pm
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OMD!!! That video is incredible!! BRILLIANT!! That Karen is so ething! Thanks for posting it! Makes me laugh!! And thanks for always willing to share somuch avout Jerry's journey. I hear what you're saying about the "time factor" for things to kick in and make a possible difference.

JOAN & LILLY! Having your continued support is sooo appreciated! It means a lot to s amd we "feel" your positive thoughts. Thank you!

KATHI and MURPHY! That story about "Bump"...Has me grinning ear to ear! What a delightful fella'! They need to write a little book called "Bump" nd sell it to the M & M people for millions!! And Kathi, I'm LOL as I was trying to figure out what on earth you were referring to whenyou said "Ug Maffie"! Good for you for figuring it out!! Kinda' like figuring out a puzzle when I make a post, huh?ll

BONNIE and THE ETERNALLY BEAUTIFUL POLLY! Knowingnhow muchnyou stillhurt and yet here you are, supporting us with every post we make. Please knw it means a lot tous Your copassion for others is extraordnary.

AMY and LIBBY! Thanks for your contined support, especially while yo're gong through yourown challenges. That Libby is ne tough Lab and a very strong strng girl! HA! She thinks she was spoiled before? She ain't seen nuttin' yet!!

EGAN and SAM! You never cease to amaze me with the lengths you will go to to shareyour owlege fromyour first-hand experience. Your post was very i formative and detailed. you gave me some great "visuals
" flr comparisons. I kow we're at the palliative point. Guess I'm thinkingnif the Piroxacam can sslow the thi g down, the "palliative tkme" can be extended...maube. Of course, if her quality deteriorated, extension of tme is out of the question. Thank you so much for takng the timemt share your knowledge so selflessly.

MICHELLE and SASSY SUGAR BEAR! I know you know all to well what's goingon over here. I know your heart is still so wonded and your emotions are raw. Yet, here you are, cheerng us al, on and providing us with incredible first-hand knowledge. Nothing like being owned by a big "fluffy" dog! For now, her restlessness and "discomfort" comes in short spurts and fortunately goes away with long, long periods before it shows up again. As of now...and at her check-up last week, there doesn't appear to be fluid. Certainly that could happen anytime, just hopng not.

I love nowng that Barneyhad been with Sassy. I feel like her energy...her life affirming energy is nfused all in that naughty boy! Her banner picture with him is so sweet. Thank you for being such a god friend to us Michelle...to everyo e here.

Thanks everyone!! We apreciate you!!

Gratefuly,

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Montana
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11 March 2014 - 10:33 pm
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I don't know about the peroxicam, but Shooter was on Pred from the moment he was diagnosed to help keep inflammation down in the Mast cell. Maybe it would help some becauseof that? I will say it made him pee a lot and pant a lot, but that became his normal.

Always thinking of you in my heart (and Team Shooter is doing the Happy Hannah dance).

Blessings-
Luanne and Spirit Shooter

Spirit Shooter was a Miniature Australian Shepherd who was diagnosed with a MCT and had a LF amp 1/28/13 at 13-1/2 years old. 

Shooter crossed the Bridge on 8/28/13, his 7 month ampuversary and two weeks from his 14th birthday.

http://shooter......ipawds.com

Virginia




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12 March 2014 - 9:37 am
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LUANNE and TEAM SHOOTER!! That boy really is dancng his butt off!! We're feeling his "good...good...good...good vibrations" and it really does help!!
When you've got a team like this, all is well with the world!

Didn't I see Shooter on the promo for the next "DANCING WITH THE STARS"?

Thank you. Lots of love to you always.

Sally and HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY HANNAH

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!


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12 March 2014 - 1:26 pm
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Sorry to be late to this post!  If it was me I would go right to pred since it is a much stronger anti-inflammatory and the dose can easily be changed if needed.  Adverse effects include drinking and peeing a lot, increased appetite, and panting although that it most common at high doses.  A dog Hannah's size should not need more than 20 mg once or twice daily to start and then decrease to lowest effective dose.

The thing I hate about piroxicam is that it is very hard on the gut.  Even with GI protectants lots of dogs can get vomiting, decreased appetite, or even gastric ulcers with little or no warning.  In fact, if I was to use an NSAID I would use meloxicam (Metacam) instead since it also has anti-cancer properties but is much safer.

I think the NSAIDS are great to use in the preventative/metronomic chemo mode  but once there are lung mets I prefer prednisone .  I am not an oncologist either, just personal preference/experience.

 

Pam

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