Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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I'm adjusting to Gerry possibly having more side effects to his meds than Yoda did. This evening he's been shaking for stretches of time, panting (though less), and whining (much less). Around the same time, he also started with the signs of tripping out - staring at the walls and furniture. These are pretty typical unfortunately, right? He's on Rimadyl and Tramadol for pain (I've been giving him 1 of the Tram. every eight hours so far) and the antibiotic Cephalexin.
Gerry did yelp in pain earlier today though when he got up from laying on his incision side (he's been doing that at least half the time since I brought him home, without a problem). That got me concerned about his pain so I made his Tramadol every 8 hours (I was instruced that anywhere from every 8 to every 12 hours would be fine). About four hours later, he started tripping out... I think.
It's an age-old question, isn't it, is my dog panting/shaking/whining because of pain or because of the medications for his/her pain? Are there any pain indicators that one can rely on that aren't also possible side effects from medications? Yoda's orthopedic surgeon gave me one. He advised that I could gently pat the incision site through Yoda's bandage to see if he reacted or not. But Gerry doesn't have a bandage, so I'm out of tips then. Got any more?
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Don't mean to jump-in here (if this section is for vets) but your description is almost the exact same story as Butchie. We stopped the tramadol...apparently older dogs sometimes don't do well on it? He seemed to be spaced-out & hallucinating on it. His fentanyl patch wore-off, so the vet recommended the gabapentin (nerve root & phantom pain ). We also took a script for a sedative, just in case.
I really don't know the answer to your question... Luckily, Jake did perfectly fine on his tramadol... and he was taking 150mg twice a day for the first 2 weeks... and he was 10 yrs old. But like people, some dogs react poorly to their pain meds... You can always ask your vet about adding gabapentin to the mix, in case that would help. It would be a shame to quit the tramadol now just because of the side effects... Just imagine if you had a huge traumatic surgery, and someone took your pain control away... You wouldn't be loopy anymore... but you would be in extreme pain. Animals don't seem to show their pain the way that we do... but that doesn't mean that they aren't feeling any pain...
So... the panting and whining... could be due to the surgery pain and/or the medication... It's so hard to tell...
Angel Jake's Mom
Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!
You are learning first hand that every dog handles the chemicals differently. They took Cherry off the Rimadyl from the moment of the surgery forward but she did have the very same set of reactions that you described while takin the Tramadol. The symtoms appeared to decrease slightly just before the next dose was due, then increased in intensity an hour after the dose. I finally was able to talk our oncologist into letting me take her off the Tramadol and that ended that particular problem. With Cherry it was the shaking that was the worst. I looked like uncontrolled convulsions but as I said, they died down quickly after we removed the Tramadol. I cannot remember the exact problems that Emily had, but I do remember that she too could not take the Tramadol. My sister swears by it on a personal basis, but I was swearing at it for Cherry.
Hate to say it, but getting the pain killer doses correct, including which ones work and which ones give horrible reactions, is more of a trail and error process than I would like. Praying that this will get settled for all of you soon. I know that you could use some up time now.
Paws Crossed and Sending Pawsitive Thoughts.
Bob & Cherry
Does Gerry have a fentanyl patch? Narcotics like fentanyl and morphine are the most likely to cause odd behaviors. It seems like some dogs here have had some issues with Tramadol, although I rarely see problems when I prescribe this drug for arthritis so maybe it has to do with the combo of drugs needed to control pain plus the stress on the body from undergoing such a major surgery. NSAIDS like Rimadyl usually affect the GI tract and cause anorexia or vomiting and diarrhea.
Each dog is an individual and what works for one may not help another. Is Gerry on gabapentin? Even if there is no obvious sign of phantom pain it seems that this drug helps most dogs and may allow you to use less Tramadol. A typical dose of Tramadol for a dog Gerry's size would be 1-3 tablets up to 3 times daily so the dose you are using is not high.
Is Gerry still eating? A dog in pain often does not eat normally, is hesitant to get up, and often has a very high heart rate, even at rest (faster than 120-140 beats per minute for a large dog).
Pam
Bob remembers correctly. Emily did not do well on Tramadal. She was shaky and staring into space and seemed more uncomfortable after a dose than when it was wearing off. You can still do the same test on Gerry that you did with Yoda. It looks scary to touch but you can still rest your hand gentley around the incision. If you are worried about the germs put a light blanket or towel orver it but if it isn't hurting he shouldn't react. Emily actually rested better if we kept one hand on her back end and if she was incision side up our hands were by the incision. Kisses to Gerry, and prayers too!
Debra & Angel Emily
Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.
Gerry has gotten worse rather than better even though he hasn't had Tramadol since 2 pm yesterday, but still has most of his symptoms this morning. He only slept from like 5 am to 9 am. He's extremely restless, wants to go for walks constantly, paces the house and, most concering, has been trying to get on furniture that he has no buness getting on. He is often panting and shaking as well.
He has yelped lately when he gets up from laying down though and is reluctant to lay down, though is that becuase he's afraid getting up will hurt or because meds are making him restless? Or because he hates his e-collar (another issue that has been complicating my interpretion of his behavior). I have no clue.
I just heard back from the shelter worker/vet tech and she says to up his Tramadol to 2 pills three times a day. I'm headed out to walk him now, since that's what he wants and will try adding the Tramadol when I get back (unless Pam is sure she's mistaken on that). Tramadol did zonk him out nicely at first yesterday, but he was definitely tripping along with his other side effects after he woke up. That totally sucks if he's just been in pain all this time and I was assuming it was the pain reliever doing it.
He isn't on the patch, by the way, Pam. Just the Rimadyl and Tramadol for pain, so this is a very different experience for me than with Yoda's meds (not that they'd react the same to it anyway).
Thanks for any and all advice.
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
And I forgot to answer the question about his eating. His appetite is a bit off, but so far he will eat if I butter him up with the right wet food and/or some meat (chicken or ground beef) and will usualy take some of his kibble along with that, but probably no more than 1/3 of his normal meal of dry food.
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Update:
I gave him one Tramadol. Not long after, he quieted. He still has been standing alot, is reluctant to lie down, but isn't pacing and the panting subsided. The shaking mostly had subsided as well, but his incision site was still quiveing a bit. About an hour later I went ahead and added the second Tramadol, as directed by the shelter worker/vet tech. He was lying down finally, but I had to get up to start lunch and he got up to follow me. He's been following me around more than he did before his amputation.
He hasn't drank water since probably yesterday afternoon. I'm going to try to coax him to do so next. He also had very loose stool/diarhe this morning, but I wouldn't be surprised that that is just from all the wet foods and not much of his usual dry food. And possibly stress too, from a crazy night. No blackness in it or anything scary like that.
Oh! While I've been typing he started eating the dry food still left in his bowl. Cool!
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Gerry
You probably said this before, but do you have 50 mg tramadol or 100 mg tramadol? Just want to make sure everyone is talking the same language when you say 1 or 2 pills (is that 50 to 100 or 100 to 200). I know we had tramadol in both forms.
Really sorry you are having these awful issues! I guess you had to throw something new at your Mum, but she is pretty incredible anyway, isn't she?!?
50mg of Tramadol. Gerry weiged 55 lbs. before his amputation. Not sure how much he lost with the leg.
He's panting again, but not as crazy restless, so I think Tramadol was the right thing. Still he doesn't want to lay down, which is unsettling, and only licked up a little water when I coaxed him. For some reason he was eager to lick what I spilled off the floor, but not interested in water from bowls. Only slightly interested in water from my hands.
For now he's mostly standing and staring, panting off and on. Tail between his legs off and on. And just now it looks like the shakes are back a bit. He still wants to go out walking all the time. His last couple times out, he didn't want to come back in the house.
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Panting and shaking subsided for now, but I think they will come and go. Most importantly, he finally took a nap. Only about an hour because he slept on my feet and unfortunately I couldn't stay put longer than that. He slept a little longer after I got up, but pretty soon he came rushing into the kitchen looking for me. I think he thinks we need to stick together given the strange pink elephants he's seeing everywhere 🙂 Hopefully we'll have a good night's sleep too with the upped Tramadol dosage. So far the side effects he is having are worth it. Seems like it must have been the lack of pain relief that was keeping him up last night.
Still, I wouldn't mind additional input. Thanks everybody for all the help and support so far on this issue!
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Poor you and poor Gerry. It is so hard to know what is pain and what is a reaction to pain meds. Keep reminding yourself that the first two weeks are the hardest. It isn't going to be an easier just because this is your second time around. Yoda and Gerry are two different dogs and will have two different reactions. I am so sorry that Gerry is having a rough time.
Debra & Angel Emily
Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.
Heh heh, okay NOW the symptoms of panting, whining and restless are indicators of Gerry's diarhea, which is now frequent. Probably too much wet food to get him to eat before his meds and to swallow his meds (he has no interest in peanut butter). Is boiled chicken and rice good for diarrhea? Or only for constipation?
If his stool isn't black, and he's not vomiting, I don't need to worry that this is caused by the Rimadyl, right? The vet only listed vomiting and black stool as causes for concern regarding the meds he's on.
I'm pretty sure initially the panting, shaking and restlessness were about pain and Tramadol is controlling that now, but to keep things lively diarhea has been added to the mix, causing similar behavior. Poor boy. Tips on ways to home remedies for the big D?? Hopefully more medication won't be required.
Gerry has been a tripawd since 12/16/2009.
He was a shelter dog with a mysterious past and an irrepairable knee injury.
Videos and pics of Gerry's pawesomeness can be found at: http://gerry.tripawds.com
Gerry,
Chicken and rice or cottage cheese are all bland foods that can help with diarrhea. It is possible that the Rimadyl could contribute to diarrhea but I would not stop that unless he develops vomiting. You can safely add Pepto 1 tablet or 1 teaspoon every 4 hours but note that this will cause a harmless black discoloration of the stool. Your vet can also prescribe metronidazole if the diarrhea is severe. I would not use Immodium in combo with Tramadol.
It sounds to me from your prior posts that Gerry has had some pain, since he has been choosing to stand or walk but not to lay down or sleep much. Just to clarify he can have up to 150 mg Tramadol 3 times daily if he needs it. You could also consider adding gabapentin 300 mg twice daily.
I hope that he feels better soon!
Pam
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