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Cancer vs. other causes for amputation around the world
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Germany
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17 January 2017 - 1:52 am
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Now, I didn’t really know where to put this topic or if to even write it down at all, however, I just sort of stumbled across it and find it really interesting. I am in two Facebook groups for owners of tripawds, one German, one American (/Australian/British). We just had a little survey in the German group to get an overview of why the dogs lost their legs. Cancer, in that group, is only in third place, waaay behind cruelty cases (rescues from other countries) and accidents.

In the American group (and here I suppose) the cancer percentage seems to be A LOT higher. Another woman told me she found that to be true in her breed-specific American group as well concerning pancreatic cancer and such.

I think this is really interesting. It’s obviously not clear what that means (i.e. really more cases of cancer, lower amputation rate in Germany, less people willing to share…). However, if that is really the case, someone should look into that in my opinion (Dr. Dressler: need a new research topic?? 🙂 ).

Any thoughts?

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

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17 January 2017 - 4:48 am
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In the US, particularly, we think of our pets as family.  Many of us have access to top quality medical care and are willing or able to spend money on things like doggie oncology.  I wonder, if in other countries, people are more likely to make an end of life decision when they know that medical intervention will not result in a cure?

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

Germany
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17 January 2017 - 5:07 am
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I know what you mean and I know there are -sadly- still plenty of countries like that. Thus there’s tons of rescue dogs from other countries in Germany. As is Manni, by the way.

I am fairly certain, though, that the vet care here is very comparable to the US, the UK and such and while I was very impressed in the UK by their RSPCA, the general consensus on pets as family members is the same here in Germany.

I don’t know, I mean, I may be wrong but I know that in humans certain cancers tend to appear in certain areas more and I wonder why that is. I guess I was just thinking how getting the best information and having the most data might actually lead to a cure someday.

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

Michigan


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17 January 2017 - 9:31 am
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I think thats a fantastic question and it should be researched further!

It would be interesting to see the human cancer rates in general also to see if it is the same . 

Higher cancer rates between countries . That would give us all the idea of where the problems might be! (food sources, soil to seed quality , water, air quality etc. etc. etc.)

Deeper thinking is always useful in Cancer & any disease , we need the research done by unbiased parties.

We can only hope for deeper pocket unbiased people to do the research.

Very informative, love to see the studies done! It would help all living beings.

Thanks for posting!

Vacaville, California


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17 January 2017 - 10:21 am
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Hi there…..I live about 15 minutes from the Univercity of California Davis.  I know that currently they have a couple of clinical trials on osteosarcoma that they are part of the nationwide effort.  I think it is more and more recognized that pets are important parts of our lives!!  one would hope that to get the percentages that are quoted in these studies they would have to do comparisons with animals that have cancer/lose a limb, or lose a limb for other reasons??  I have lost three of my babies to cancer, but Sessy is the only one that had amputation.

GOod topic, definitely something that should be studied

Gayle - mom of beautiful greyhound Sessy.  Sessy diagnosed with osteosarcoma on 12/26/16, left back leg amputated on 1/2/17.  Feline siblings Mooshe, Tinkerdude, Odie and Bean

Germany
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17 January 2017 - 11:54 am
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My thoughts exactly, thank you. I mean, that would be one very extensive project and would depend a lot on good comparable data but that would make sense for humans, too I would think. 

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-



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17 January 2017 - 12:11 pm
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Hey there heart

This is such an interesting subject!

Having travelled through Europe with Eurydice opened up this cancer subject in different countries for me too.

We are lucky and thankful to be treated at Fitzpatrick Oncology Hospital in the UK where there are highly competent Oncologists and surgeons.

I debate osteo with Eurydice’s oncologist at length and they say a lot of progress is being made as we speak and a lot of drugs are being used because we pawrents are willing to try anything within reason. 

We already used carboplatin, metronomic treatment (chemo, antibiotic and anti-inflammatory administered daily on low doses) and are now on doxorubicin.

I asked what can we do after the maximum dose of doxorubicin is done and was told there are drugs we still can use.

How effective are they ? 

The answer was, there is still not enough data to be able to be sure.

But we can only know how good they are by trying them, right?

As for other countries, I am now aware Portugal is very, very advanced on cancer care for dawgs.

All vets (plus Eurydice’s oncologist in Lisbon) knew all about all treatments used in the UK and they are actively doing research on cancer.

The Veterinary Teaching Hospital in Lisbon has come up with an auto immune vaccine for lymphoma and skin cancer in dogs and I know one of the dogs who is on this trial (an Afghan Hound who is almost 10)

He had terrific results. 

ALL his tumours disappeared and his hair is growing back (he’d lost all his hair to chemo treatments which is unusual) 

Eurydice’s friend Marley (also a Great Dane with lymphoma) following Igor the Afghan Hound’s success is now going to try the vaccine as well.

I am keeping a close eye on progress so I may report fully when their vaccines are completed. 

There was a change in Portuguese mentality towards dogs in the past 10-15 years and now they are considered to deserve the same chances as a human member of the family when facing cancer. 

Spain still falls a little behind, lots of people we met where surprised Eurydice was doing chemo, most people weren’t aware dogs can have chemo treatments.

But everybody we met got really excited with the fact dogs can be treated and glad to hear there are choices available so one doesn’t have to put our babies down. 

France … good old France …

The most dog friendly country in Europe by far.

Well, I was extremely surprised to realise when cancer comes into the equation they are very close to middle ages…

Eurydice’s vets were surprised her shoulder was removed, they couldn’t believe it in fact. 

And the oncologist I saw knew all treatments, including metronomic but told me very few people go for chemo and amputation when told their dogs suffer from incurable cancer.

She said there is a huge mental block with the French, who associate chemo with the same side effects it has for us humans (when this is not the case) they fiercely resist the idea of using chemo …

It is totally not the case they don’t love their pets or want to end their misery rather then embarking on a long painful journey where the war is already lost, it is just they don’t know.

I spoke to so, so, so many people and vets and they were astounded at what can be achieved and why we should pursue amputation and radical treatments.

I wish Tripawds would have a French connection …

As for Switzerland, we are told the country lacks good, competent vets but that was only a couple of pawrents opinion so I can’t truly judge.

Our only experience was going to the vets in Geneva for Eurydice’s compulsory pills before coming back to the UK.

The vet knew what metronomics was and was aware of carboplatin too but what sticked to my mind (and pocket) was the absurd (and I mean it!) amount of money they charged for 3 pills and a health report for the customs …

I don’t even dare thinking how much surgery and treatments would amount to …

We have also been to Belgium and can report the vets we saw where very competent and were aware of all treatments. 

Hopefully more research can be conducted around the world so at some point nobody has to start this journey.

Sending lots of hugs and cuddles to your girl heart 

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

The Rainbow Bridge



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17 January 2017 - 12:20 pm
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I wish Tripawds would have a French connection …

Au contraire, we do mademoiselle! It’s you, and the others from France who have joined through the years. Tripawds is a global community and one of the benefits of being global is the ability to share information no matter what country we are in. Thanks to folks like you, no matter where someone resides they can come here to find out what others are doing to fight cancer and live good lives on three legs. Thank you for being a part of that! 

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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The Rainbow Bridge



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17 January 2017 - 12:27 pm
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It’s a great question. Our Quality of Life Surveys in the past demonstrate it’s the exact opposite here: cancer is the #1 reason why Tripawds parents join us here, then accidents, then birth defects. 

I think what it comes down to is where veterinary universities in the world are willing to put their research dollars. For example, here in the U.S., there is lots of focus on curing human cancers by studying it in dogs and cats, so there is much more awareness in general among the veterinary community and that trickles down to pet parents. I’m guessing that cancer tends to get diagnosed here more often because of this. I’m not sure how prevalent these comparative oncology studies are in foreign countries but maybe someone can enlighten me on that, I’d love to know.

Once I asked a well-known oncology scientist if we are seeing more cancer rates in today’s animals. Her theory is no, it’s just that we are diagnosing it more than ever before in the U.S. because American pet parents of years past weren’t willing to go to those lengths to find out why their dog or cat was sick. When they have the support of veterinarians who understand the value of oncology support for pet cancer, it makes traveling that road a lot easier.

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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London, UK


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17 January 2017 - 12:46 pm
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 I know that in humans certain cancers tend to appear in certain areas more and I wonder why that is.

Higher cancer rates between countries . That would give us all the idea of where the problems might be! 

In humans, research suggests a strong correlation between a Western diet and many Cancers. Rates of cancer are far far higher in countries where the diet is high in animal products. In parts of rural China, where the diet is very largely plant based, Cancer is rare. As these countries become richer and the globalisation starts to change people’s diets, Cancer is on the increase. I can’t see how this would apply to animal diets though.

Meg, Mutt, aged around 11, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Germany
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17 January 2017 - 12:57 pm
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It would just be interesting to have somebody compile all the different data from different countries and continents and put it all together. I agree with all of you but everyone raises a different point. How does soil/water/air quality/ GM relate to food – relate to cancer – relate to countries -relate to habits and cultures. 

Ok. I can see how that might be a daunting task. But interesting still…

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

London, UK


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17 January 2017 - 1:07 pm
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This is an interesting article on the subject Why Do Dogs in Europe Live Longer?

I don’t know how rigorous the research is. It seems a bit speculative and anecdotal to me, but apparently European dogs do live a year longer than US ones on average, and the author explains this, at least in part, by lower rates of vaccination and also neutering.

Meg, Mutt, aged around 11, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Germany
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17 January 2017 - 1:16 pm
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Thanks Clare! Interesting!! Biased in part I suppose but an interesting comparison 

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

London, UK


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17 January 2017 - 1:22 pm
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Yes, without more research the reasoning is surely speculation. But the fact they live a year longer on average (which is a lot!) is apparently from actual data. I’d like to see that data.

Also, while I do believe rates of neutering are lower, it’s hardly unusual in the UK. Weirdly the vet he quotes (Bruce Fogle) is my vet and neutered both my girls without a murmur. Maybe he’s just talking about boy dogs. 

Meg, Mutt, aged around 11, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Germany
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17 January 2017 - 1:58 pm
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The whole spaying/neutering thing has become an issue here, too, but only lately. As in: should we really or may it be causing more harm. I have a definite opinion on this but that would be a whole topic in itself. Also a new debate here is About vaccination. Here we have the European Pet Passport ( whatever you call that in the U.K.) where you have to stick to vaccinations but I do believe that it makes sense if you want to be free to travel in Europe, which we do. 

It’s actually interesting to compare countries and habits in this little microcosm! How interesting it would be to do that on a large scale!

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

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