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Kylie is having a rough go lately & not sure if Tramadol is helping or not?
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1 July 2017 - 1:54 pm
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Desperately seeking some advice for our girl. Kylie will be 10 mos post amp tomorrow! She had been doing pretty darn great up until almost 2 weeks ago. Hot tears fall as I write this today with very little sleep under my belt & tons of worry..

We now recall that Fathers Day weekend (Sun June 18) she took a little tumble down the in laws wooden, non-carpeted stairs (she's a rear amp so usually going up is harder & but she flies down stairs NO problem!) Also much to my dismay she wasn't wearing her roughwear harness either at the time madLets just say that rule has been reinforced to my husband after this incident! (she fell down them one other time too!)

Anyway by Wed 21st we had her to the Vet because she didn't seem to be getting better on her own. She was not herself, didn't want to walk around a lot, wasn't following us non stop around the house as she does, wasn't venturing up the stairs on her own, and started to not have an appetite. She was also very restless during the night & kept getting up, doing circles to change positions then lay back down again. She did this ALOT. With her having cancer of course I over-react & assume the worst!! The Vet said to start giving her Tramadol twice a day (every 12hrs) over the weekend and see how she does. They also did bloodwork, tested for worms (she had eaten poopicon_pngout in the field a couple times) heartworm and for lyme disease since ticks are bad in our area this year. All that came back fine. That night and the next (22nd) she seemed less restless so we all got a better sleep. We even did a short 5 min walk before bed. The morning of the 23rd she even went back upstairs all on her own! oh-myand again later that day!

By Sunday (25th) she seemed more like herself so we were happy that the Tramadol helped with pain and allowed her to rest and heal whatever injury occurred from the stairs. Since the Vet said just to keep her on for that weekend, we decided not to give her a pill that Sunday night. (we also took her for a short walk before bed) Well Monday morning she was bad again!! We felt horrible. She had no appetite, she was slow again and didn't want to walk around the house and her mood was down. So I tried to get some food in her so she could have her drugs. Figured that's what she needed!? So gave her the Metacam (she remains on that long term) then a couple hours later I got the Tramadol in her with some bread & peanut butter. She seemed to get better again so we decided to just keep her on the pills since we only had a few left anyway. Her appetite was still not great but she was still eating most things I tried. Her mood was better again and she seemed antsy like she wanted a walk. So silly me took her for a small walk.

By Thurs (29) I called our Vet as well as the Oncologist as I was worried with this being a long weekend (Canada day) They said pick up more Tramadol and continue every 8-12 hrs and call early next week. If doesn't resolve on its own, we may need to investigate further (x rays? etc.)

So here we are Sat July 1 and she hasn't gotten any better. She barely moves around from room to room again. She is not eating much at all!! certainly not dog food.whateverHer current diet consists of Ritz crackers, cooked turkey breast from the other nights dinner and sometimes scrambled eggs. Peanut butter is her absolute favourite but she will take it or leave it depending on the day. She still gets perky at times when you talk to her, ears up and giving 'head turns' and lots of kisses. She is sleeping a lot for the most part, once she has her pills. But in the night I get very little sleep because of her restlessness and now the heavy panting too. This started last nighrt around 5am until we finally got up at 630am. At night she will come up between us and lay between our pillows with her head rested on my shoulder/arm. heartShe rarely ever does that! (its super cute but tells me she is seeking comfort from her Mom which makes me sad)  During the day she is very slow to get up and to lay down. She stands/walks with her tail wrapped around her existing back leg. She lets us put the heating pad on her remaining leg so we assume it feels good for her.She won't let us really touch it so we don't. We are worried sick that the cancer has now raided that existing leg too!! My husband has already been researching dog wheelchairs online 🙁 I was really praying that she just pulled something and she would bounce back again in time with meds and healing.So since the Vet said she could have Tramadol every 8-12 hrs and we've only been giving her 2 a day, I was wondering about adding a 3rd dose in there to see. But I'm also worried about withdrawal when she comes off it.  On the other hand, my husband Kevin is worried (from reading online) that her behaviour (down mood, panting, loss of appetite) could be from the side effects of the Tramadol and wonders if she needs to come off it and then she'll feel better?? She still drinks alot of water, thank God for that. Potty time is OK too, although I do notice the last couple times she poops she groans as she pushes it out?! Maybe its her tummy? or would that be due to her leg too?

(for those of you who recall, we kept her on high doses of  Tramadol post surgery an extra 5-6 days too long because no one told us to stop them and our poor girl felt good otherwise but was so sedated she was a vegetable!) She perked up and ate better once off them. We don't want her in pain but don't want her like that again either. I am thinking I will still give her pills tonight but maybe trying no pill tomorrow morning when we're around to watch her and see how she is. If she gets bad we can give it to her, but if she is Ok without it and starts eating then maybe she's ok without it. I really do worry when she won't eat anything because I need her to keep her strength up!!

I am so sorry for the super long post!! But I am eager for ANY insight anyone has on this? I know you guys are not Vet's but you DO have pets who have/have had cancer pain and have experience with these meds and their side effects.

I just want my girl back!! Thanks in advance

Chris & Kylie xo

ETA: Just realized I probably should have posted this in the treatment & recovery section instead, sorry! ugh I need a nap

Virginia
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1 July 2017 - 4:26 pm
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Ppst as much as you wa t anywhere you want, okay??

Okay....And even though you know what I'm about to say, promise me you'll do it right now, okay?? Here we go!!

D E EP B R E A T H S. D E EP B R E A T H S. INHALE SLOOOOWLY......EXHALE SLOOOOOWLY....I'm watching!!! One more time! INHALE SLOOOWLY. EXHALE SLOWLY......GOOD JOB!!This does NOT sound like the "worst case scenario" at all, but rather an "injury"'of some sort to either back, leg, knee, maybe even shoulder, or a disc. It may have started with the first tumble prior to this recent one.

Enjoying the bliss of hi dsight, there probably should have been some confinement with the very first tumble, even though she showed no pain. And moreso even the second tumble..

If this is some sort of sprain, muscle, back, leg, etc,.....like we've seen many times before....a lot of confinement is rewuired for even as much as two weeks at a time. No stairs, just potty breaks, no jumping on beds, etc.

As far as the Tram....and not a Vet and not giving Vet advice.....but you DO jave some leeway where you can give smaller doeses every six hrs...or certainly maintain the dose the Vet subscribed every eight hrs instead if waiting the twelve.

The reason I say that is because Kylie's panting seemingly showed up as her previous dose was wearing off. Yes, panting and restlessness can be a side effect of Tram, but so can pain. And pain and discomfort can certainly diminishe appetite! Guess my thinking is along the lines of trying the every six hrs. I know most prescriptions given for amputation recovery allow for every six hrs if needed, but I guess that depends in the dose. And generally "withdrawal" isn't associated with Tramadol that I'm aware of...but not a Vet.

Definitely try the "confinement, no stairs ,no jumping" for the next several days. And you are still continuing the Metacam, right?

Drinking is good, and Kylie IS eating some, so try not to be too worried a out that. Most Vets will tell you the drinking is more important and nit eating for a couple of days is not all that horrible in the short term.

Is her leg swollen at all? Does she tense up if you gently massage up and down her spine, her eck, her shoulders?

And for whatever it's worth....osteo rarely goes from one limb to the other. It happens, but it's nit the usual path.

After your nap....after your deep breathing....after eating your bag of chocolate....let is know how she's dping now.:-)

Lots and lots of hugs!!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

If she does have back or leg sprains, it probably is a little harder popping...in every sense of the word!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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1 July 2017 - 5:06 pm
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 Thank you thank you thank you Sally! Your advice is just what I needed to hear. (And I did do the deep breathing! I really did, did u hear me? 😄 I use a meditation app to fall asleep every night so I love the deep breaths!

 First of all you're certainly right we should've taken it easy after her fall even if she did seem fine at the time. The poor girl does only have 3 legs afterall! As much as she seems unstoppable most days, I have to remember she's not 😉

As requested, here's your update after our nap. I think you'll be pleased!

So after I posted here, Kevin helped Kylie up the stairs and we had a great nap together! I noticed she was not panting hard during our nap like she did at night time. Didn't move around a lot either, just a few times.

Then I was starving. I offered her dog food first & of course she turned her nose up at both the dry and also the wet food. So I made her a scrambled egg. She ate some of one this morning so figured worth a try. I made myself a grilled cheese sandwich. Well.....the little rascal ate all of the egg and half my sandwich hahaha! I was so pleased I just let her eat whatever she wanted. But I was still hungry so I made a toast & peanut butter and she ended up eating half that with me too LOL

I'm hoping this will help give her strength. She seems a bit better already. Also had another big drink. I will see how the night goes and decide on a change of pills tomorrow. We're already too late in the day here to get an additional dose in today. Oh btw she's on Tramadol 100mg so it's only 1 pill every 8-12hrs. They didn't say every 6hrs. 

As for tender areas.. my husband said when he touched her leg yesterday she looked at him quickly like she didn't like it. I've been trying to lightly pet her everywhere today & she seems ok with it. I haven't use any pressure though. I'd like to give her a light massage but don't want to spook her either. Maybe later I'll try 😉 Her leg doesn't look swollen, it could maybe be her back? Who knows. But I'm just happy her tummy seems settled enough to eat.

fyi She had her Metacam at 7am and 1 Tramadol 100mg around 9am. So all she gets for the rest of today now is another Tramadol at 9pm or bedtime I do wonder if night time is worse for her & that's why it doesn't last 12hrs. Last night she had it at 11pm and she woke today around 5am, most mornings have been around 6am when I give it at 10pm. So who really knows!!! 🙄

Virginia
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1 July 2017 - 5:58 pm
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Oh good!! I definitely heard allnthe deep breathing gping on all the waynover here in Virginia!!! Felt the wind gusts too!! 🙂 I do "hear" the relief in your voice!! It's amazing what a nap and some grilled cheese and peanut butter sandwiches will do!! Talke about comfort food!! Scoop of ice cream???'Did I hear scoop of ice cream in there anywhere??? Just sayin'...

As far as "confining", it is just not on oir radar when our dogs do a face plant or a tumble and seem just fine! There's really no reason to NOT think they're okay! It's just that I've been in here enough to see the type of thing going on with Kylie happen. And good for yoh for putting the two tumbles together. Good job!! 🙂

It may be that a pain med at eight hrs works better. You can just monitor and see if she starts zhpwing any signs of pain before the twelve hr mark. It really is kind of hit and miss on any given day.

Alright Miss Kylie!! You are getting carried upstairs, youre getting some of your Mom's good sandwiches, so you don't need to pull any more stunts ro get attention!! 🙂

I''ll keep checking in for updates! I loke what I'm hearing so far! And she may experience a bit of a roller coaster...or should I say YOU and KEVIN may experience a bit of a roller coaster for the next couple of days as she heals. It's so easy to tweak and re-tweak, and to find new things to tweak, once something is tweaked!! 🙂 Make xense??

Oh...And I DO expect pictures later tonight!

Love and hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Continue doing what you're doing and feeding whatever it takes! Just be sure and save some food for yourself!!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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1 July 2017 - 6:27 pm
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Nope no ice cream in the house.. so I turn to carbs for my comfort. ☺️

Yes will definitely be keeping an eye on signs of pain and go from there. I'd get up in the middle of the night to give her an extra dose if she didn't need to take it with food! That's the tough part right now. I'm not making grilled cheese sandwiches at 3am or else I'm awake!! Lol

She is starting to look a little restless and will pant heavy for a minute or so here and there and just stare off into space. She's coming up on 12 hours now. I really wish they could talk to us..

As for pics... apparently I forgot how to do that. Been a while blush

Virginia
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1 July 2017 - 6:49 pm
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Go to the Technical Support thread and you can search hot to uplpad. You need something like Photobucket (which is AWFUL) And then you can "embed" them here. Sorry, that's the extent of my "techie" skills!

Yeah, sounds like it's time for another pill. The pain probw has a bitmp of a headstart if shesw showing symptoms, so the Tram may take a little bit longer to kick in.

Hugs!!!!!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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1 July 2017 - 7:14 pm
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Can't add much, but I hope the grilled cheese is the magic cure and she starts feeling better!

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

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1 July 2017 - 7:17 pm
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oh boy! stupid photobucket!! I had to find my login and password again then upload a few ugh!

This is her in bed with the heating pad on!

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And Miss Kylie sunbathing the other day when she was feeling good big-grin

IMG_04731_zpsanzuvvut.jpg

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1 July 2017 - 7:18 pm
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A sunbathing dog is the best!

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

Virginia
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1 July 2017 - 7:45 pm
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Oh Kylie, you define PAMPERED POOCH!! 🙂 Make that PRINCESS PAMPERED POOCH!!! 🙂

Soooo sweet:-) Thanks for the smiles 🙂

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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1 July 2017 - 8:02 pm
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Haha ya... guilty as charged, she is spoiled rotten 😇 And we're ok with that, she's all we got. She's pretty darned special! I love when she starts to seem like she's coming around and we see her sweet spunky personality come back. I hope we get past whatever this is and get our usual girl back. 

I will keep u posted. Thank u guys for your advice & support...as always!  😘

Oh and she's crashed now, so I'm guessing the Tram from 8:30pm has kicked in, it's 10pm here now. We'll see how overnight goes!

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1 July 2017 - 8:34 pm
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What about massage?  Murphy loved to get massaged ...I think his muscles ached and got tight. 

Have you thought about a visit to a rehab vet?  I wish we had gone sooner!  When we finally went, we learned a few exercises to help Murphy stretch and to increase his core strength.  The one we went to also did chiropractic adjustments, which I think helped with his stiffness.

Donna

Donna, Glenn & Murphy  http://murphyh......pawds.com/

Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old.  He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17  

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2 July 2017 - 8:04 am
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Yes Donna that's a great idea! I've been thinking about that too. No one has suggested it to us but last fall prior to learning her leg pain was cancer, she did have some rehab sessions which included ultrasound, massage and chiropractic. They even tried hydrotherapy (water treadmill) but the 2nd time she got on it the girl was in the way on the ramp & so Kylie went to turn around to hop off it and hurt her leg again. So that spooked her & she never went back on ☹️

As for last night, we slept ok. I had a Tramadol pill & some crackers ready to go for the middle of the night if she woke & I thought she needed it. Sure enough I woke at 4am and offered it to her but she declined 😒 Even the Ritz cracker.

when we finally woke at 7:30am I didn't expect her to eat as she hasnt been since she's been like this, so I made myself toast and peanut butter and coffee. I offered her a bite & she gobbled it up. So I offered more! She ended up eating half my toast as well as most of a scrambled egg. So I felt better about getting meds into her knowing she had some food in her belly. She got her Metacam & a Tramadol. She is snoozing & snoring on the couch beside me as I type. 😴

I will see how she is at 4pm to see if she could use more Tramadol (8hr Mark) or wait for 12hr.

Question..  I notice as she's sleeping with her head hanging off the edge of the couch, her nose is dripping!? Side effect of Tram also? Oh now she just woke & looked at her back end! She's 1.5hrs into the Tramadol & she's looking a little dopey. 

ETA: Well its 2hrs later and she is looking and feeling better than we've seen her in a couple days. Her spirit and energy are higher and she continues to accept food I give her. I think she's getting stronger. Fingers remain crossed!!

Virginia
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2 July 2017 - 10:16 am
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A little xhuckle.......any "nor al" situation, a human wouldn't even notice their dog looking at their rear end.....not jere though!! Ohhh noo siree bob! We don't think in terms of it just being an itch, or a bite, or a little muscle twinge...we think bad stuff! 🙂

And then a bit of another chuckle. Most likely with Kylie's head hanging off the sofa she has a bit of a nose drip everytime...but we just don't notice these things before the journey!! Anyway, nose dripping could be soooo many things. Usually this time of year it's a bit of an allergy that pops up every now and then. Suppose it could be the Tramad, but isn't a biggie even if it is.

So glad she ate this morning! 🙂 Clearly she enjoyes earing YOUR food!! Try eating a cheeseburger next and see if she'll eat half of that. I have learned a lkttle trick when dogs don't eat. Put whatevsr it is you are trying to get them to eat (something yummy) on your plate...act like you're eating it too...a d then give them the plate to lick the whatever

Slow and easy Miss Kylie!!! You're getting better!!

Hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Virginia
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2 July 2017 - 10:18 am
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Oh good! Just saw where you added she's rrally showing signs of improvement!!! Still go slooooow and easy! GOOD JOB MOM!!! 🙂

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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