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Any nutritional nerds out there? Foodies, I'm looking for ratios...
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Germany
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6 March 2017 - 7:14 am
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so. Does anybody know where to get actual figures for practical nutrient levels for dogs? for example the calcium-phosphorus ratio, vitamin D levels, fats and oils, protein ratio??

ANNND: how to put this into practice?? as in: if I mix meat x with veggie x and combine with fish oil or whatever how do I know I'm meeting the ratios right?? (Additional bonus would be how does this translate to: raw, cooked, freeze-dried, dehydrated...)

I have been looking for figures but mainly found stuff like the FEDIAF (http://www.fediaf.org ) which is the European Pet Food Industry Federation so they obviously have a self-interest in this which doesn't really qualify them in my book...

So if anybody has a fantastic formular or resources, please share with me! 🙂

I know this is a somewhat nerdy question and rather specific but I thought I'd ask the most knowledgable people I know and that would be, right!! YOU!!  🙂

thanks for your help!!

Tina

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

Here and Now

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6 March 2017 - 8:34 am
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thanks! I checked that site out once before but I still have a hard time finding numbers. to explain: I am not looking for a new brand to feed, but rather the general requirements. I also found this: https://www.petdiets.com but can only find more general info there, too.

basically, what I want to know is: if I were to produce dog food, what would be in it ideally to meet necessary (bodily) requirements, i.e. what ratios, what numbers of minerals, vitamins and such, general nutrition info.

sorry if I'm annoying ...blush

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

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6 March 2017 - 10:27 am
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I would contact a veterinary nutritionist at http://www.acvn.org. They can help you balance a diet the right way.  Up to 80% of homemade diets are not balanced and in most cases you will have to supplement calcium, fats, and vitamins/minerals to get it right.

Pam

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7 March 2017 - 3:00 am
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thanks! that helps.  It's not so much Manni's diet I want to know about but more like a general "what needs to be in there to be healthy for an average dog"-numbers.

I'll do more research...

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

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7 March 2017 - 10:17 am
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I don't have the info you're looking for.  It wasn't easy to find when tried -- and as you've figured out.  But I do have a slick spreadsheet that I put together for determining what I was putting in a meal in terms of calories, carbs, proteins, and fats -- and it could be extended to include vitamins and minerals if you had that info.  In my world, EVERYTHING goes in a spreadsheet -- and the more tabs, clearly, the better! 

Tabs:

  • Milo's weight, age, activity levels, etc and the formula for how many calories he needed, with a scale factor for adding/losing weight.  This is where that info you're looking for would be added -- what are the vitamin and mineral needs, in addition to calories and fats, carbs, proteins.
  • Various foods and their nutritional info per unit, e.g., 1 lb chicken breasts is 20g fat, 35g protein, 105 calories (making this up for the post!), 1 can sardines is 40g fat, 40g protein, 75 calories.  Every time I added a new food to his diet, I'd add a newline to this tab.  A few more columns would cover the vitamins and minerals.
  • "The Mixture" page, which had a pull down menu to pick from the "Various foods" page.  I'd select the food type and the amount I had (1.2 lb chicken breast, 0.80 lb ground beef, 1 lb broccoli, etc)  The scaling and summing happened automatically.  At the bottom was a highlighted total with Total calories, protein, fat, carbs, and a place for how much "Mixture" resulted, e.g., all the mixed stuff resulted in 12 cups of food.
  • "The Feeding Page" combined all of the other info (Milo's calorie needs, mixture calorie info, and mixture quantity) to tell me how much to feed him on any given day.  It also output the daily protein, fat, and carb info so I could be sure I was in the recommended ballpark. (For example, if a mixture used ground beef, it had higher calorie than if the same amount of chicken, but if I had used 5 different vegies instead of just 3, then the volume would be lower calories/cup -- you can't just assume a cup of "mixture" is the same from batch to batch -- this page figured that out for me.) 

By using the spreadsheet, I could cook up a storm on Sunday using the food processor and whatever I had in the frig and had found on sale at the grocery, and have food for the rest of the week.  In addition to the food mixture, he had a daily vitamin and calcium supplement, and then a few other herbal and cancer specific supplements and K-9 Immunity.

The spreadsheet I put together would work for you -- IF you could figure out what the nutritional needs are for the various vitamins and minerals (I never found it), PLUS extending the "Various Foods" tab to include that vitamin and mineral info for all the food types you throw into a mix.  The spreadsheet format is easy, just add columns, but getting the vitamin and mineral info for some foods may be tough. 

Anyway, if you ever start to gather that info, and are interested in what I have, let me know.  I haven't used it since October (sigh...), but I'm sure it's still around.  I rarely delete my cool spreadsheets!

Peace,

Jenifer & Milo & puppy Darcy

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7 March 2017 - 12:03 pm
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That, Jenifer, is absolutely amazing!!! YOU are amazing! You're right, it's not the original info I was looking for but to combine that... 

I will find it. I WILL PREVAIL!! 💪🏻😊

If you have no problems with sharing that I would love to get my hands on those spreadsheets!! (that is such a nerdy thing, I love you for it!!) 

where did you get the original information from in terms of general nutritional needs?? 

I actually found a website today that just may have the mineral/vitamin and so on info. I've not had time to give it a thorough look though.  I'll try and do that tomorrow. 

So, if you're sure you don't mind sharing...

thank you so much!!

Tina (&Manni)

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

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8 March 2017 - 7:44 pm
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Will find this weekend, add comments, and post somewhere.  Got a high pressure work project tonight, though.  Hopefully, it helps you and others.

Virginia
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8 March 2017 - 7:55 pm
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See how Milo is still having a life affirming impact on all of us???? You see that, right Jennifer? Yeah, that sweet pupn0 is still living a life of meaning and impacting others....even if it's from his energy source over at the Bridge!way-cool

Thanks!!!

And good thread Tina!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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11 March 2017 - 9:02 pm
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Here's a link to the spreadsheet on Google Docs.  I think I set it up right for sharing for all.  Let me know if there's a problem.  I added a few comments to help explain it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w2dpHNOIoLB9WfQLLEUnZLTNDJ-AY-ve6eub00oi4pQ/edit?usp=sharing

Best of luck.

-Jenifer

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12 March 2017 - 1:30 am
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This is amazing Jenifer! I am away this weekend, so only on my phone but I can't wait to dive right into this. 

Thank you so much, I'll keep you updated on the mineral/vitamins and so on front!! 👍🏼☺️

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

The Rainbow Bridge

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12 March 2017 - 6:28 pm
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YOWZA that is pawesome! Thank you so much Jenifer. I'd love to share this in our Nutrition blog if that's alright with you? We've seen anything this detailed and accurate.

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14 March 2017 - 8:21 am
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Certainly -- please do share.

Tina -- I know working with someone else's spreadsheet can be trying because we all think differently.  If you have a list of foods/ingredients with vitamin and mineral info, I could add it to the spreadsheet and expand the columns in a matter of minutes.  If you'd like me to do the first cut and expansion, just send me a file with the food and the info you'd like to track. 

The other part I should have included is sources for the info.  I use a variety of website -- usually checking a couple for consistency, then using an average or typical number.  I used calorieking.com and nutritionvalue.org and a few others.  Google.

While trying to find the sites I used for my database, I just found https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list -- it seems to have the info Tina was looking for and would have worked for me. 

Hope this helps.

-Jenifer

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14 March 2017 - 8:26 am
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Funny you should say that, that is exactly the website I was talking about the other day regarding the missing info 🙂

I've sadly not had enough time yet to delve deeper into either The Amazing Spreadsheet By Jenifer or the website...

i will get around to it, though.

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

Germany
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14 March 2017 - 8:27 am
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Once I have a little more time on my hands I would love to get in touch with you again and I am sure I will take you up on the spreadsheet front... 🙂 thank you SO much!!

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or is it the other way 'round?

Manni was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in Dec '15 and immediately had his right front leg amputated, followed by 5 rounds of chemo. Manni's real name is Manfred and he turns 10 on Jan 28 2017. So far we are mets-free...

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