Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
Tripawds is your home to learn how to care for a three legged dog or cat, with answers about dog leg amputation, and cat amputation recovery from many years of member experiences.
Join The Tripawds Community
Learn how to help three legged dogs and cats in the forums below. Browse and search as a guest or register for free and get full member benefits:
Instant post approval.
Private messages to members.
Subscribe to favorite topics.
Live Chat and much more!
Register
Log In
Members
Add Topic
Offline
Hi all! First and foremost, this blog has been so helpful during this entire process so thank you everyone! I am interested to see if anyone has any experience or thoughts on the following decision for our love, Roscoe (3.5 year old black-lab mix). *Right now, I am leaning against radiation.
Roscoe had an amputation for his soft tissue sarcoma (STS) and it went great! It was a rather large tumor, Grade 2 (not the worst, not the best). Grade one is very rare to metastasize and rare to come back, Grade 2 has a likelihood of spreading/recurring around 30% ish, Grade 3 is a different story, 50% likely and a little more dangerous. If you're reading this and your dog has Grade 3 that is not to say it's a death sentence by any means!
Basically, the majority of the margins were clean! Except one part received a 'clean but close' margin of .2 cm (2 mm) from the margin line (not from the tumor), keeping in mind, margins shrink at the pathologist. Most of the literature says that clean but close margins are considered 1mm from the margin...some says closer to 3 mm from the margin. So Roscoe falls right on the cusp! Oy!
Option 1: Radiation
- Expensive (over $6,000), 18 days of anesthesia (can be dangerous in itself) and radiation, possible side effects from radiation (which are more likely to be seen in a young dog like my Roscoe, who is only 3.5 years!) Also, I think the whole process would stress Roscoe out, he's an emotional fella!
-PRO: Most of the literature says that STS, treated surgically and followed with radiation have a 75% success rate and 5+ year survival rate.
Option 2: Wait and See plus a Homeopathic Approach
- From the research articles I have read, the chance of a Grade 2 STS returning with unclean margins hovers around 34%, with clean but close, slightly less! So, technically it's giving us the same chance as radiation- around a 75% chance it will not come back PLUS no risk of side effects from radiation. STS also have fairly low metastatic rates (17%)
- The con is that if it does come back, it will be slightly harder to treat then the first time, definitely would require another surgery and radiation. It's really a coin toss.
Thing to keep in mind, right now, Roscoe is cancer free! My personal vet, who always leans toward a homeopathic approach, says that most of the time, surgery is curative for STS, regardless of margins. I went a lot deeper and read all of the research articles listed in the Dog Cancer Survival Guide and the oncologist obviously recommends radiation as the "safest" course of action (I take that with a grain of salt). I have him on Apocaps , 50% Origen dog food and 50% Dog Cancer Diet. I also have an appointment with an Eastern Medicine doctor.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts!! Any input is appreciated! ESPECIALLY people who have experience with STS!!
Thanks so much & much love,
Kristin & Roscoe & Family
Hi Kristin and Roscoe & Family, welcome. So sorry this is such a tough spot to be in, can't blame you for feeling so conflicted.
It seems to me, and this is my gut instinct, that in your heart you know what is best for you and Roscoe. For instance:
*Right now, I am leaning against radiation.
I think the whole process would stress Roscoe out
My personal vet, who always leans toward a homeopathic approach,
radiation as the "safest" course of action (I take that with a grain of salt)
So based on what I'm reading here, it sure sounds like you're more confident and reassured taking a holistic approach. Your gut instinct is always the best way to go in this situation.
We've had so many dogs here cope with soft tissue sarcomas, and many who are doing so right now and in your same situation, like Anya. One of our most famous STS members was Maggie Moo, who went on to live a very awesome life into old age, while taking a holistic approach.
One thing to remember is that statistics are just numbers. They don't take into account your own dog or his health history. With cancer treatments, there are no guarantees either way but if there's anything we learn from all this is to take life as it comes and live each day to the fullest, just the way our dogs want us to.
Sounds like Roscoe is getting some great care, kudos to you for all of your research and thought put into his treatment. You're a pawesome momma!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
So, SO true! Thanks, Jerry 🙂 I have trusted my gut this entire time and so far it has led me in the right direction! This website has definitely helped me in all my moments of weakness and second guessing!! Thanks again!
Much love,
Kristin & Roscoe
Hi Kristin and Roscoe,
Roscoe is SO handsome!!
I am in a similar situation with a soft tissue sarcoma. My 12 year old shepherd-mix, Maggie, had a growth on her front leg near the accessory pad ("wrist" area, in my non-medical vernacular). A biopsy indicated grade 2 liposarcoma, but they couldn't remove the tumor due to tendons, etc. so 2 1/2 weeks later we went ahead with amputation. The pathology report after amputation came back as grade 3 undifferentiated sarcoma - and like you, I think I've read every thing, including professional/research journals, that I could find online about every kind of soft tissue sarcoma. The 50% metastasis rate is scary, but I'm not sure I fully understand it. Is it 50% without removal of the primary tumor, 50% with surgery and not clean margins, or 50% even with clean margins? It seems like there's just not enough research to say for sure. I've talked with 3 vets now - oncologist at the specialty office where the surgeries were performed (she recommended chemo straight-away, like it was a no-brainer); our regular vet, who is of the opinion that even with grade 3 the chance of spreading would be less due to complete removal and the pathology report that her bone was not affected - meaning it's unlikely the cancer could have spread through bone marrow; and a highly-regarded oncologist at a teaching institution who said chemo would be an option but the odds and likelihood of chemo having an impact on the odds are not very conclusive. He also took a fine needle aspirate of her lymph node on the side with the tumor, prior to amputation, and saw no signs of cancer there. I assume that's a good sign.
Anyway, this all left my head spinning. We had thought that a grade 2 liposarcoma would be kicked to the curb with amputation and we would have no more cancer to worry about (or very slim chance of spreading), so to find out 2 weeks later that it was a more aggressive type of tumor really heaped on the uncertainty. Maggie does NOT like trips to the vet, and continued treatment would definitely add stress to her life. On the other hand, 5 rounds of chemo started to sound not-so-bad.
Maggie is 12 years old, and her time will come one of these days. I don't want it to be from cancer - but I don't want it to be from anything else, either!! The practical side of me says that this cancer, or another cancer, or liver disease, or something else...could make life unbearable for her some day. So treating this cancer is a crap-shoot. We could do chemo and still have it rear its ugly head again. We could do nothing (or try holistic immune support -which would give me the peace of mind of doing something), and it may never come back. So for us it comes down to what makes for the best days for her every day - whether it's 6 months or 4 years.
Thanks in large part to all of the stories and wisdom I've found at Tripawds, I think I am better able to look at this all from the perspective of what is truly best for Maggie. She hates medical visits. Even the 5 rounds of chemo would most likely require sedation each time because she would not cooperate. She hates taking pills, and would likely need to take some additional medication in pill form (anti-nausea, etc.). I hate trying to get her to take pills, which stresses us both out. I worry like crazy when her appetite is off or she has stomach issues, which stresses us both out. All this has lead us to the decision (well, I'm about 90% decided) not to do any chemo and just spend our time and energy making sure she is happy, content, relaxed, and seeing her "people" being happy and relaxed with her. I'll take the time we would have spent going back and forth to chemo, to do something she really loves, like sitting in the back yard or pretending the chase squirrels at the park.
This is obviously a different decision for everyone, and you know your pup best. Roscoe is young, maybe more resilient in the face of doctor visits, etc. I can only offer support and understanding of how confusing and stressful it is to try to figure out what to do. And a bit maddening that the statistics you can find online, or even talking to specialists, are so hard to pin down. I think that's why, as you've taken the great advice from others here, you really do just have to trust your gut and do what you think is going to work for Roscoe and your family. You obviously love him tons and that is all that really matters to him!!
Best of luck as you work through everything. We'll be sending you and Roscoe good thoughts!
Hi Kristen,
It sounds like you've done a lot of research and seem to have determined a clear direction. My cat had a vaccine associated fibrosarcoma on her leg. These tumours require a 5 cm margin which is very difficult to achieve. Luckily Mona was vaccinated in her leg rather than the scruff of the neck (still being done by bad vets) so removing her leg gave her "huge margins", as described by the pathologist.
The pathologist's report stated that no further treatment was required. If radiation was recommended I would not have gone that route for many of the reasons you have stated. A month after Mona's amputation I took her to a holistic/integrative vet for a chiropractic treatment and the vet also put her on Power Mushrooms to boost her immune system. That vet also encouraged me to talk to Mona daily to explain what happened to her and what I'm doing to help her. It seemed a little weird when I started doing this but then I started to feel better and see things more clearly, and, most importantly actually started to "listen" to Mona. She made it very clear to me that she is resilient and determined that I had to quit with the changes I was trying to implement such as new kitty litter, raw food, supplements, etc. If she wants raw food then she'll catch it herself! Let your pet be your guide!
Whatever direction you take it will be the right one for you and Roscoe.
Kerren and Tripawd Kitty Mona
kazann said
Hi Kristen,It sounds like you've done a lot of research and seem to have determined a clear direction. My cat had a vaccine associated fibrosarcoma on her leg. These tumours require a 5 cm margin which is very difficult to achieve. Luckily Mona was vaccinated in her leg rather than the scruff of the neck (still being done by bad vets) so removing her leg gave her "huge margins", as described by the pathologist.
The pathologist's report stated that no further treatment was required. If radiation was recommended I would not have gone that route for many of the reasons you have stated. A month after Mona's amputation I took her to a holistic/integrative vet for a chiropractic treatment and the vet also put her on Power Mushrooms to boost her immune system. That vet also encouraged me to talk to Mona daily to explain what happened to her and what I'm doing to help her. It seemed a little weird when I started doing this but then I started to feel better and see things more clearly, and, most importantly actually started to "listen" to Mona. She made it very clear to me that she is resilient and determined that I had to quit with the changes I was trying to implement such as new kitty litter, raw food, supplements, etc. If she wants raw food then she'll catch it herself! Let your pet be your guide!
Whatever direction you take it will be the right one for you and Roscoe.
Kerren and Tripawd Kitty Mona
Awww, thank you so much Kerren! Mona looks so adorable! If Roscoe wasn't a nut about cats I would definitely have one 🙂 I think he loves them TOO much haha. I just signed Roscoe up with a holistic specialist and I'm looking forward to what he has to say! I have power mushrooms on the way! Also, I don't think talking to Monda is weird at all! hehe I talk to Roscoe all the time 🙂
Thanks again for your kind words. It's really nice to have this forum to vent and think through such big decisions.
Much love and hugs to Mona!
Kristin & Roscoe
cpessoni said
Hi Kristin and Roscoe,Roscoe is SO handsome!!
I am in a similar situation with a soft tissue sarcoma. My 12 year old shepherd-mix, Maggie, had a growth on her front leg near the accessory pad ("wrist" area, in my non-medical vernacular). A biopsy indicated grade 2 liposarcoma, but they couldn't remove the tumor due to tendons, etc. so 2 1/2 weeks later we went ahead with amputation. The pathology report after amputation came back as grade 3 undifferentiated sarcoma - and like you, I think I've read every thing, including professional/research journals, that I could find online about every kind of soft tissue sarcoma. The 50% metastasis rate is scary, but I'm not sure I fully understand it. Is it 50% without removal of the primary tumor, 50% with surgery and not clean margins, or 50% even with clean margins? It seems like there's just not enough research to say for sure. I've talked with 3 vets now - oncologist at the specialty office where the surgeries were performed (she recommended chemo straight-away, like it was a no-brainer); our regular vet, who is of the opinion that even with grade 3 the chance of spreading would be less due to complete removal and the pathology report that her bone was not affected - meaning it's unlikely the cancer could have spread through bone marrow; and a highly-regarded oncologist at a teaching institution who said chemo would be an option but the odds and likelihood of chemo having an impact on the odds are not very conclusive. He also took a fine needle aspirate of her lymph node on the side with the tumor, prior to amputation, and saw no signs of cancer there. I assume that's a good sign.
Anyway, this all left my head spinning. We had thought that a grade 2 liposarcoma would be kicked to the curb with amputation and we would have no more cancer to worry about (or very slim chance of spreading), so to find out 2 weeks later that it was a more aggressive type of tumor really heaped on the uncertainty. Maggie does NOT like trips to the vet, and continued treatment would definitely add stress to her life. On the other hand, 5 rounds of chemo started to sound not-so-bad.
Maggie is 12 years old, and her time will come one of these days. I don't want it to be from cancer - but I don't want it to be from anything else, either!! The practical side of me says that this cancer, or another cancer, or liver disease, or something else...could make life unbearable for her some day. So treating this cancer is a crap-shoot. We could do chemo and still have it rear its ugly head again. We could do nothing (or try holistic immune support -which would give me the peace of mind of doing something), and it may never come back. So for us it comes down to what makes for the best days for her every day - whether it's 6 months or 4 years.
Thanks in large part to all of the stories and wisdom I've found at Tripawds, I think I am better able to look at this all from the perspective of what is truly best for Maggie. She hates medical visits. Even the 5 rounds of chemo would most likely require sedation each time because she would not cooperate. She hates taking pills, and would likely need to take some additional medication in pill form (anti-nausea, etc.). I hate trying to get her to take pills, which stresses us both out. I worry like crazy when her appetite is off or she has stomach issues, which stresses us both out. All this has lead us to the decision (well, I'm about 90% decided) not to do any chemo and just spend our time and energy making sure she is happy, content, relaxed, and seeing her "people" being happy and relaxed with her. I'll take the time we would have spent going back and forth to chemo, to do something she really loves, like sitting in the back yard or pretending the chase squirrels at the park.
This is obviously a different decision for everyone, and you know your pup best. Roscoe is young, maybe more resilient in the face of doctor visits, etc. I can only offer support and understanding of how confusing and stressful it is to try to figure out what to do. And a bit maddening that the statistics you can find online, or even talking to specialists, are so hard to pin down. I think that's why, as you've taken the great advice from others here, you really do just have to trust your gut and do what you think is going to work for Roscoe and your family. You obviously love him tons and that is all that really matters to him!!
Best of luck as you work through everything. We'll be sending you and Roscoe good thoughts!
Hi! Thank you so much for your kind words! I hope Maggie is feeling less stressed out and she is SO lucky to have such a supportive dog-mom like yourself! I know that no cancer signs in the lymph nodes is a big deal and I'm so happy for Maggie! Also, I imagine (from my brief experience with this) that the amputation and getting that tumor the heck out of there is a great thing!! As far as the 50% goes I think that what they mean is if the tumor does grow back, it will then have a 50% chance to spread, so long as it hasn't spread thus far (which the lymph node thing seems to indicate it probably hasn't! At least that's what I could hope) Again, this is from my layman's research. The statistics can be scary and it's so important to realize that these research articles are not the same as, say, human studies and that anyone who tells you they completely understand cancer is full of it! So I wouldn't let that 50% get you down.
Right now, we've decided as a family to wait and see, so to speak. If it does come back, there is always another surgery and then radiation. I have also read a lot about metronomic chemotherapy (low-dose chem with anti-infammatories) which I believe can be given in pill form and has been shown to ward off sarcomas/keep them at bay! Maggie sounds like my dog growing up who hated pills, we used to have to cook her elaborate meals and somehow the pill would still be in the bowl! lol! Definitely ask your vet about power-mushrooms and I have heard that Omega-3, specifically EPA Omegas, are really helpful!
Please don't hesitate to get in touch or email me if you want someone to run ideas by! I sincerely hope Maggie continues to live a long and healthy life! But I already know, based on just talking to you here, that she has been SO lucky thus far in life 🙂 Try not to stress and hug Maggie for me!!
Much love,
Kristin & Roscoe
Glad to hear you've made a decision you can all be happy with, I love your confidence! Keep us posted and holler if you need anything at all OK?
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
knahas said
cpessoni said
Hi Kristin and Roscoe,Roscoe is SO handsome!!
I am in a similar situation with a soft tissue sarcoma. My 12 year old shepherd-mix, Maggie, had a growth on her front leg near the accessory pad ("wrist" area, in my non-medical vernacular). A biopsy indicated grade 2 liposarcoma, but they couldn't remove the tumor due to tendons, etc. so 2 1/2 weeks later we went ahead with amputation. The pathology report after amputation came back as grade 3 undifferentiated sarcoma - and like you, I think I've read every thing, including professional/research journals, that I could find online about every kind of soft tissue sarcoma. The 50% metastasis rate is scary, but I'm not sure I fully understand it. Is it 50% without removal of the primary tumor, 50% with surgery and not clean margins, or 50% even with clean margins? It seems like there's just not enough research to say for sure. I've talked with 3 vets now - oncologist at the specialty office where the surgeries were performed (she recommended chemo straight-away, like it was a no-brainer); our regular vet, who is of the opinion that even with grade 3 the chance of spreading would be less due to complete removal and the pathology report that her bone was not affected - meaning it's unlikely the cancer could have spread through bone marrow; and a highly-regarded oncologist at a teaching institution who said chemo would be an option but the odds and likelihood of chemo having an impact on the odds are not very conclusive. He also took a fine needle aspirate of her lymph node on the side with the tumor, prior to amputation, and saw no signs of cancer there. I assume that's a good sign.
Anyway, this all left my head spinning. We had thought that a grade 2 liposarcoma would be kicked to the curb with amputation and we would have no more cancer to worry about (or very slim chance of spreading), so to find out 2 weeks later that it was a more aggressive type of tumor really heaped on the uncertainty. Maggie does NOT like trips to the vet, and continued treatment would definitely add stress to her life. On the other hand, 5 rounds of chemo started to sound not-so-bad.
Maggie is 12 years old, and her time will come one of these days. I don't want it to be from cancer - but I don't want it to be from anything else, either!! The practical side of me says that this cancer, or another cancer, or liver disease, or something else...could make life unbearable for her some day. So treating this cancer is a crap-shoot. We could do chemo and still have it rear its ugly head again. We could do nothing (or try holistic immune support -which would give me the peace of mind of doing something), and it may never come back. So for us it comes down to what makes for the best days for her every day - whether it's 6 months or 4 years.
Thanks in large part to all of the stories and wisdom I've found at Tripawds, I think I am better able to look at this all from the perspective of what is truly best for Maggie. She hates medical visits. Even the 5 rounds of chemo would most likely require sedation each time because she would not cooperate. She hates taking pills, and would likely need to take some additional medication in pill form (anti-nausea, etc.). I hate trying to get her to take pills, which stresses us both out. I worry like crazy when her appetite is off or she has stomach issues, which stresses us both out. All this has lead us to the decision (well, I'm about 90% decided) not to do any chemo and just spend our time and energy making sure she is happy, content, relaxed, and seeing her "people" being happy and relaxed with her. I'll take the time we would have spent going back and forth to chemo, to do something she really loves, like sitting in the back yard or pretending the chase squirrels at the park.
This is obviously a different decision for everyone, and you know your pup best. Roscoe is young, maybe more resilient in the face of doctor visits, etc. I can only offer support and understanding of how confusing and stressful it is to try to figure out what to do. And a bit maddening that the statistics you can find online, or even talking to specialists, are so hard to pin down. I think that's why, as you've taken the great advice from others here, you really do just have to trust your gut and do what you think is going to work for Roscoe and your family. You obviously love him tons and that is all that really matters to him!!
Best of luck as you work through everything. We'll be sending you and Roscoe good thoughts!
Hi! Thank you so much for your kind words! I hope Maggie is feeling less stressed out and she is SO lucky to have such a supportive dog-mom like yourself! I know that no cancer signs in the lymph nodes is a big deal and I'm so happy for Maggie! Also, I imagine (from my brief experience with this) that the amputation and getting that tumor the heck out of there is a great thing!! As far as the 50% goes I think that what they mean is if the tumor does grow back, it will then have a 50% chance to spread, so long as it hasn't spread thus far (which the lymph node thing seems to indicate it probably hasn't! At least that's what I could hope) Again, this is from my layman's research. The statistics can be scary and it's so important to realize that these research articles are not the same as, say, human studies and that anyone who tells you they completely understand cancer is full of it! So I wouldn't let that 50% get you down.
Right now, we've decided as a family to wait and see, so to speak. If it does come back, there is always another surgery and then radiation. I have also read a lot about metronomic chemotherapy (low-dose chem with anti-infammatories) which I believe can be given in pill form and has been shown to ward off sarcomas/keep them at bay! Maggie sounds like my dog growing up who hated pills, we used to have to cook her elaborate meals and somehow the pill would still be in the bowl! lol! Definitely ask your vet about power-mushrooms and I have heard that Omega-3, specifically EPA Omegas, are really helpful!
Please don't hesitate to get in touch or email me if you want someone to run ideas by! I sincerely hope Maggie continues to live a long and healthy life! But I already know, based on just talking to you here, that she has been SO lucky thus far in life 🙂 Try not to stress and hug Maggie for me!!
Much love,
Kristin & Roscoe
Thanks Kristin, you're so sweet! I'm so glad you made a decision on what to do for now, I think it's a relief just to have a clear way forward, and you obviously know all of the options that are there for you in anything changes. I hope things go great for Roscoe - keep us up to date here!!
Maggie is adjusting more every day, going for lots of short walks, and soaking up all of the attention from the family. What more could a pup want? 🙂
Cindy and Maggie
1 Guest(s)
