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pain med question
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Mount Pleasant, Ia
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27 October 2010
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25 March 2011 - 7:47 pm
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I was just reading the post about Tate wearing his people out, since I have been in the tripawds family I have read much about tramadol and its various problems - or rather the problems some dogs have with it. I did a search on tramadol which said it is a medication for moderate to severe pain, I then did a search on what they gave Cooper for pain after his surgeries... he was given Previcox.. I did a search on this and the description given for it is that it is a med used for pain of osteoarthritus in dogs.. does this seem weird to anyone that this what Cooper was given? He never seemed to be in pain after his surgeries, but the page I read on the previcox about it being used to treat dog arthritus makes me wonder if he shouldnt still be being treated for arthritus his back legs are not that strong and his mobility was much better when he was on the previcox. I would be interested in hearing what anyone knows about this med.

 

Coopsdad

Coopsdad/ Kenneth Blackburn

http://cooper.t.....ipawds.com

the monkeydogs only THINK they have invaded the tripawd state

On The Road


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25 March 2011 - 8:00 pm
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Previcox is an NSAID. Tramadol is considered by many to be more of a narcotic. Jerry was discharged on tramadol and an NSAID (Rimadyl at first, we then switched to Metacam). From what we've heard here, most dogs go home on both, plus an antibiotic.

We are by no means vets, but it is our understanding the NSAIDs will help manage pain by working to reduce inflamation while the narcotics will block pain receptors in the brain. Hopefully Ranger's mom or Dr. Pam can provide better feedback from a more professional point of view.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Mount Pleasant, Ia
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27 October 2010
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25 March 2011 - 8:23 pm
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oh yes, Cooper was of course on antibiotics - but all he had other than that was the previcox. And yes I would welcome input from Dr.Pam or Rangers mom

 

Coopsdad

Coopsdad/ Kenneth Blackburn

http://cooper.t.....ipawds.com

the monkeydogs only THINK they have invaded the tripawd state

Las Vegas, Nevada
Member Since:
14 August 2009
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25 March 2011 - 10:08 pm
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Admin's explanation was great.  (and don't forget we are not vets or doctors but we are experts! winker)

It's like taking an Advil for us. (previcox)  It's good for most anything that causes inflammation and/or swelling.  Comet took Rimadyl (non-steriodal anti-inflammatory NSAID) everyday for mobility.  Her ortho doc said, it was best to make her comfortable opposed to trying to make her live forever.  I expected the Rimadyl to kill her one day (liver problems usually) but it didn't! 

That stoooopid tramadol is a pain killer so it doesn't affect the swelling and inflammation.  It just tells your brain to not care anymore!  Much like us taking a loratab or vicodin.  But the tramadol isn't that potent.  It's people medicine and it doesn't do that much for pain on people IMO!  It makes you a bit goofy and light headed.  And that's why dog's don't do too well either.  Comet couldn't stand up and hop on it.  But I did have to give it when she had her neck disc infection.  (plus Rimadyl)

 

And then sterioids are for the last resort (opposed to NSAIDS).  When the pain and inflammation is so bad, it's steroid time!   But it's not good when you have an infection since it suppresses your immune system.  And it's not good long term.

 

There you have it!   

 

Like I said, my ortho vet and regular vet liked NSAIDS.  It's about quality and feeling good daily.  If you thought Cooper did better with an NSAID, like previcox, then I'm sure your vet will tell you what's best.  You do have to have blood work done and make sure the liver is okay. 

KISS the Coop for me!

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

WYO
Member Since:
10 February 2011
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25 March 2011 - 10:29 pm
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When Bud fell and hurt his knee and hip, the vet put him back on previcox indefinately. The xrays showed arthritis in his hip and swelling in his knee.My german shepherd was  also on it when his back end was weak and suffering from arthritis at 14 yrs old. It probably would help Cooper out, wouldnt hurt to ask your vet!

Pahrump, NV
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17 February 2010
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25 March 2011 - 11:28 pm
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Ge'Lena, I couldn't have said it better myself!  (and Admin, you did pretty good too wink)  I'm not sure why a vet chooses an NSAID over tramadol or vice versa.  I know with people, post surgical meds can include both NSAIDS and narcotic pain relievers, but usually a lot stronger than tramadol (like fentanyl or morphine.)  Sadie was already on Rimadyl and she took tramadol for about a week as well.  If Cooper has arthritis in his back legs, then an NSAID could be helpful.  The people version of Previcox, which is Celebrex has side effects that include an in increased risk for heart attack or stroke. I could find no information that Previcox could have that side effect, I just thought I'd mention it in case someone whose dog had a heart problem might mention it to the vet.  Another thing about Celebrex is that it interacts with Diflucan (fluconazole), which is an antifungal medicine sometimes prescribed to dogs. Again, I don't know if Previcox also interacts, but it seems plausible.  I suppose I asked more questions than I answered embarassed Pam, help me!smile

Sadie is my 9yr old Rott/Shepherd mix. Diagnosed with osteosarcoma in her right scapula 1/28/10. Our brave girl had her amputation 2/13/10 and her last chemotherapy on 6/6/10. Unfortunately, a tumor appeared in her back right leg and on 10/7/2010 Sadie's earthly journey came to an end.  On 10/24/2010 we adopted Ranger, a handsome Rott/Lab mix tripawd (got hit by a car) I think Sadie sent him to us.
http://ranger.t.....pawds.com/

littlemanjake
7
26 March 2011 - 5:01 am
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Quick synopsis of NSAIDs:

Previcox(firocoxib), Rimadyl(carprofen) & to a lesser degree, Metacam, (Mobic,meloxicam) are selective NSAIDs. (Meloxicam is not classified in the U.S. as a Cox 2 inhibitor, but rather as Cox 2 selective NSAID) They work by inhibiting prostaglandin production by Cox enzymes. There are two types of these enzymes Cox 1, which protects the GI tract & has a role in approriate coagulation and Cox 2, responsible for inflammation & pain. Selective NSAIDS inhibit the Cox 2 enzyme. NSAIDs like ibuprofen, naproxen & aspirin do not make this distinction, which is why they are responsible more adverse GI side effects

Firocoxib is similar in chemical make up to rofecoxib (Vioxx), which was voluntarily withdrawn from the market after incidental adverse cardiovascular effects were identified  during the first (VIGOR) of many unrelated studies.Bextra (valdecoxib) was involuntarily removed from the market by the FDA due to CV concerns and a severe adverse skin reaction. There has never been a clear distinction between Celebrex(celecoxib) a weaker Cox 2 inhibitor, Vioxx(rofecoxib) and several other early Cox 2 inhibitors and their role in cardivascular risk, but it's a study that will never be pursued. The assumption is, they all carry a risk for myocardial infarction and thrombotic events(stroke,pulmonary embolism, other blood clots). Consequently they all have FDA mandated Black Box Warnings. Meloxicam carries an expanded Black Box Warning against it's use for the treatment of perioperative pain in the setting of coronary artery bypass surgery after unpublished data was reviewed by the FDA. The use of Cox 2 inhibitors in humans is usually reserved for patients with severe osteoarthritis and intractable pain who's options are limited and quality of life severely compromised. They are rarely used perioperatively because of the CV risks. Practitioners are not going to accept the liability for their widespread, random use.

Carprofen was never used in the US, but was available in Europe for human use, until more effective drugs became available.

Most surgeons, with the exception of gynecologists, are not in favor of traditional NSAIDs like ibuprofen, naproxen, or toradol perioperatively because they temporarily inhibit platelet function. Aspirin inhibits platelet function for 4-7 days & is therefore not used perioperatively. Some orthopedic surgeons do not like NSAIDs for fractures because there have been some studies indicating it inhibits bone healing, although that seems to be a regional preference. There is a general, but not BB caution regarding CV adverse effects for all NSAIDs

Drugs come to the veterinary market often when they are no longer profitable in human medicine. That may or may not be the case w/NSAIDs, but dogs don't have the same intrinsic cardiovascular risks as humans. I think NSAIDs have been used widely enough & long enough in dogs, that severe CV effects would be known. The data resulting in these BB warnings didn't come from any direct studies & ultimately it is a liability issue in human medicine. The other potential adverse reactions in our dogs have to be weighed against improved functionality & quality of life.

I would prefer my dog not be on a selective NSAID, but the reality is, she has arthritis & needs it. At her age, to me, it's worth the risk. My integrative vet prefers meloxicam & after doing some research, I decided it was the safest, most effective option for Isabelle. She has been on it for 14 mos. I dose her at about 2/3 the recommended dose.

There is also research being done & some published about the angiogenic benefit of NSAIDs on tumors with & without chemotherapeutic agents. Whether it proves helpful or not, it's not likely harmful. 

For what it's worth, I would definitely talk to your vet about whether Cooper could benefit from NSAIDs & if they are safe for him. If his mobility can be increased & his quality of life enhanced, it's worth asking the question. 

Tramadol is a synthetic pain reliever, with both opiod & non opiod action, but without anti inflammatory properties. It isn't the most effective drug in human medicine for acute pain. It's used more often for chronic pain and then not very effectively. One thing to note for dogs w/MCT. Tramadol does not cause the histamine release narcotics do. As a precaution, I took Isabelle off any narcotics after her surgery for her MCT( but didn't use Tramadol) I also removed her fentanyl patch very early after her amputation. I did, as a precaution, stop her meloxicam 2 days before both surgeries & resumed it on post op day 2…based on nothing other than my being overly cautious.

I don't think most veterinary surgeons (or general vets, regarding nonsurgical pain) give owners much guidance regarding tapering pain meds & post op expectations. I'm not really sure they all know themselves, but dog's responses can't be that different from the humans most of the drugs were formulated for in the first place. The difference is, humans can verbalize, so it's easy for us to determine what works well and what doesn't.

Postoperative antibiotics are not routine. They are given pre, and/or intraoperatively, but only continued if there is a reason…a drain sometimes, hardware, intrabdominal surgery, a break in surgical technique, some other suspected source of infection. Routine prophylaxis is not recommended, as it only adds to the overwhelming prevalence of drug resistant organisms. If my dog were being discharged on them, I would want to know the reason.

Las Vegas, Nevada
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14 August 2009
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26 March 2011 - 10:02 pm
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Oh Isabelle's mom - I always feel so smart after reading your posts! That was super terrific! smile

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you go to med school and become a doctor? If I was as smart as you, I would have. But I've always had a desire to be one, but something like an opthamologist so I wouldn't have to do too many emergencies and work late.

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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28 November 2008
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27 March 2011 - 6:34 am
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Coopsdad, the approach we used in the beginning was to dose Trouble at an amount that would keep her comfortable.  She also was given Rimadyl.  I judged what comfortable was by her activity level.  Initially, she was getting 50mg about every other day, gradually that wasn't working as well and I went to 50mg every day, when that began to not work we went to a full dose - 50mg twice daily, which she stayed on until the end.

We knew from having Trouble on Rimadyl previously, it raised her liver enzymes.  This graduated approach considering her age, we felt was a lesser of two evils choice that would minimize her risk of elevated enzymes, yet still keep her comfortable for as long as possible.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.


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27 March 2011 - 5:11 pm
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testing


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22 August 2008
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27 March 2011 - 5:26 pm
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testing again-post won't go through

On The Road


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27 March 2011 - 5:57 pm
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tazziedog said:

testing again...

Both of your posts published. If you're having difficulties please provide complete details here.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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