Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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So, Sam is on piroxicam, tramadol, Prilosec (and prior to that had a week long course of sucralfate), and Thyroxine.
He gets 100 mg of tramadol in the AM and again in the PM. 10 mg of Piroxicam in the AM. Thyroid meds 2x a day. I was TRYING to give him the K9 immunity plus--but no matter what I do, he will not eat them.
I am absolutely struggling to get him to eat anything, and at this point, I am about to lose my sh*t. He has always been a very sporadic eater--some days, he'd just not eat at all. He wasn't PICKY--meaning IF he'd eat, he'd eat anything. He just never ate much. Not a problem when you are a 95-lb, otherwise totally healthy dog with a very low activity level. Definitely a problem when you are a 70 lb, emaciated, geriatric cancer patient trying to do PT.
For awhile, I could get him to eat a can or three of Fancy Feast. Then, we'd eat a bit of Chef Michael's kibble. Then it was some other kibble. One day, he'd eat a few bites of chicken breast. It's just totally scattershot what he'd eat, if anything--I've tried a MILLION types of dog food, cat food, people food (baby food and grown up food), things that have zero nutritional value (popsicles, mashed potatoes, etc.), things that are drizzled in ollive oil, hamburger juice, PB. This weekend, he ate pretty much nothing at all, save for 1/3 cup of vanilla ice cream and a crap ton of off-brand milk bones one night.
Yesterday, we ate one hot dog, and...about 16 small-sized dog biscuits (although I did manage to get him to eat PB on some). This AM, same thing: one hot dog, and 6-8 biscuits with PB. He doesn't want the Chef Michaels, or the Fancy Feast, or the Pedigree (canned or dry), or his Taste of the WIld or even the chicken breast. Ditto for any of the prescription food.
I am seriously about to lose my sh1t. It can take 30-45 minutes just to get a biscuits in him. I KNOW he isn't eating enough, but i can't figure out what to give him. And I don't think it's a "lost the will to live" thing at all. His personality is fine; he goes outside; does his "pt"; plays with his toys; humps Sadie; etc. It just the food thing...he's always been such a stubborn bastard, and that's EXACTLY what he's doing now, and I want to f'ing strangle him. :p
So...long story not short at all:
Any ideas on food to try? Eggs? 32 hot dogs a day?
Is there a good 'magic shroom' supplement that is NOT food-based (i.e. not a chew or a powder or something else that gets mixed in)? I really dislike pilling him any more than I have to, but if there's a small cap or something, i can try it.
Would he benefit from switching to Meloxicam? I know it's a solution, so I'd either have to syringe him or get him to slurp it...but he DOES have something of a sweet tooth (ice cream, popsicles, jellybeans, etc.), in as much as dogs can have one, I guess, and I've heard it's kind of sugary tasting. Just glancing at some of the lit, it seems that it is a bit easier on the stomach, but still has some of teh anti-tumor properties?
Would an anti-emetic be helpful to try? Coudl he just feel nauseous, and his version of saltines is Ol Roy cardboard dog biscuits?
Thoughts?
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
Sorry to hear about Sam's issues. Be sure to search these forums and the blogs for lots of discussion about NSAIDs and appetite.
Here are just a couple relative forum topics after quick search for "appetite":
3 weeks post rear-leg amp.- dog still lethargic and no appetite
18 days post amp and will not eat
Check the Tripawds Nutrition blog for more advice too!
Get Your Dog Eating After Amputation Surgery
Get Dogs Eating With Honest Kitchen Foods
Ice Pups: A Cool Tasty Treat and Appetite Booster
Finally, be aware of adverse reactions to NSAIDs and please consult you vet with any serious concerns.
Best wishes, please keep us posted!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
ooh, I should add (if it matters): that we are just over six weeks post op, and he has no history of depression, etc. He adapted quite well, in fact.
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
I am just wondering, has your vet said that traditional prescription appetite stimulants (like Mirtazapine) are contraindicated with any of Sam's treatments or diagnosis?
I do think that piroxicam is a little harder on the stomach than meloxicam (Metacam) so it may worth it to ask your vet about that. Does he have any vomiting or dark stool?
I used the Power Mushrooms for Tazzie and they come in a pill form.
Pam
If you suspect he's nauseated, ask your vet about metaclopromide...
but beyond that, the one thing I've yet to see ANY dog turn their nose up at is freeze-dried liver treats. They're the reason I started cooking liver for my dogs. If I asked Kernit to do a back flip for one of those treats, I'm pretty sure he'd give it a shot. 
When we started chemo for the lymphoma before the OSA diagnosis, the only thing I could give him to get his pills into him was roasted chicken skin. THAT is how I started the whole home-cooked dog food thing, because I was having to roast 2 chickens every 2 or 3 days just to get the skin off them for his 30 pills per day!! So I highly recommend chicken skin as well!
(To roast a chicken, preheat the oven to 450 degrees...just stick it in a roasting pan in the lower part of the oven for 10 minutes, wiggle it around a bit with a spatula so it doesn't stick, then stick it back in the oven for 25-35 more minutes depending on size, until golden brown.)
(makes a fabulous dinner too, if you want to give him the skin & keep the rest!)
Let me know if you try the freeze-dried liver or roasted chicken- just curious to see if it works!
We use meloxicam but he's really not crazy about it so it can't taste that good! 
tazzie: he had some vomiting, but it stopped after we started the carafate, and hasn't happened again. All pooping is normal (well, as normal as it can be when you don't eat :p)
dharma: Chicken (and chicken-related things like skin) he ate...and then put on his Do Not Eat list. 
But that list changes like the weather (er, well...consider our weather has been CRAP WINTER for like 8 months, I guess it changes like something else...underpants, maybe?), so maybe it's worth trying again.
His PT tries to get hiim to eat liver bites, and he had zero interest (but he DID eat a stupid milk bone :p)...but those may have been processed or something. If we get desperate, I might try cooking some. Will let you know!
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
In my (very limited) experience, the chicken skin has to be roasted, so if you decide to try it again, be sure to roast it!!
As far as the liver thingies, I'm going to tell Kermit's PT about that when I pick him up today; she'll be shocked! That stuff is doggy CRACK!!
When I was a little kid, anytime I was sick, the ONE thing I could always eat no matter what the illness or how much barfing or fever or coughing or WHATEVER, was McDONALDS BURGERS & FRIES!! Not exactly health food 
but lots of calories! Maybe it'll work for dogs, too!
Have you had blood work done? Are liver and kidney function OK?
My experience with not eating was with my Tri-Pug Maggie, she had always been a bit of a picky eater (for a pug) but started losing weight when she was about 10. Turns out she was in the early phases of kidney failure. I can completely relate to how frustrating it is to get them to eat. One day Maggie would not eat chicken, her very favorite food, from one hand, but took turkey from the other hand!! One day she chowed down a hamburger, the next day she would not look at it. She might eat one thing at breakfast, but would refuse at dinner. When Mag was healthy she was about 17.5 lbs, she got down to about 14.5 pounds- she was quite emaciated.
I learned that I had to hide my frustration from her, she would go outside if I tried too hard to get her to eat. Also I couldn't use any scented soap or lotion on my hands, just regular Vaseline lotion would make her turn away. I finally resorted to syringe feeding her. I found one canned food, Merick, that she would eat after I pureed it in the blender. Each meal I would offer her some food, if she ate good, if not I went to the syringe (without showing stress 
). I also found that sometimes if I put some food on her tongue she would eat- like priming a pump! Whipped cheese worked occasionally.
I personally cannot take any NSAID's because my liver has become sensitive to them. When my liver counts go up I do not feel like eating (and I always feel like eating 
).
I hope you find the answer soon.
Karen
Thanks, Karen!
If he keeps not eating, we will do another panel. But his labs were all normal at surgery.
I think, for me, it is doubly frustrating right now b/c I have a cat with stage IV renal failure, and so I feel like I JUST WENT THROUGH THIS FOOD BATTLE And triply, if you add in the crappy weather that is really making EVERYONE in this town irritable.
For our cat, we thought he was a goner--even the vet was surprised he made it, I think. He went from 17.8 lbs down to 10...that's a LOT for a cat to lose. It got to the point where a half teaspoon of fancy feast with water, hand-fed to him was a victory for the day. But, eventually, he climbed back up--7 months later, we're down to every-other-day fluids, he's gained back most of the weight (fatty, fatty 2x4), and puts down his dry food and a bit o' fancy feast every day.
So I know it CAN be won (the food thing, I mean)...I just have to stay upbeat, and keep the frustrations in check. And, of course, ask all you fine folks for advice--which is wonderful! <3
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
Wow, you poor thing. I'll probably get kicked off this site for mentioning this but has anyone used the wacky weed to increase appetite for dogs? I know for my brother-in-law who died of melanoma, it was a miracle when we tried it to get him to eat. Meloxicam has ruined my stomach along with all the other NSAIDS. Anyway a thought (far out one). Good luck.
Mmrocker. You get THE award for "I'LLTRY ANYTHING TO GET SAM TO EAT":-) 
I can understand why your frustration level is off the charts! You really know Sam so well! It's ashamed cat poop isn't nutritional......it's with a try:-) Just kidding'! If my dogs can find that when I'm of looking...YUM!
Clearly fro what you've described, Sam has a great will to live and is thoroughly enjoying life!
Now this goes in the "for whatever it's worth column.....Happy Hannah has a cast iron stomach, however, when she was on meloxicam briefly, it did upset her stomach and she couldn't take it
Couple of other tricks you may have already tried......bring your cat over to Sam's bowl and see if the thought of someone else getting is food makes him eat. And I think already mentioned, downplay food time and offer and then just walk away.
Glad our cat is doing g well and certail our diligence and care has paid off as it will now!!
You are doing such a great job and keeping a great sense of humor the whole time!!!:-)
For whatever it's worth (again), it does seem it COULD be med. related. You can never give Piroxicam and Prednisone at same time......but if you take Sam off pirox. For four ..five days (check with vet of course). and put him on Pres. I can all most GUARANTEE that will DEFINITELY stimulate appetite!
You really are doing so great at caring for Sam and it is paying off!
Keeping all paws crossed
Sending
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
As usual, this thing cuts of....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttttrt
Just want to add that Sam IS getting some food....albeit junk food....but to me that indicates an encouraging sign. Keep o trying g the boiled chicken, turkey, etc. even if it's just one bite every hour, that's good!
Really am sending you the very best of success in this ongoing journey! Sam is feeling the love!
Sally and Happy Hannah
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
As an update...
Talked with the vet. We have discontinued Prilosec, as that in and of itself, can cause nausea/tummy distress. We're scheduled for bloodwork on Wednesday to rule out renal or liver failure or other complications. He doesn't think Meloxicam will help, as it's also known to cause GI distress, and he doesn't feel it's as effective in anti-tumour properties as Piroxicam. We will also look at his mushroom supplement, which is a syrnige, so maybe will work better than the Immunity Plus.
Saturday night, we ate a hot dog and 1/3rd cup of chicken breast with a bit of PerkiLac sprinkled on them. We ate a couple nuggets of kibble that happened to be stuck to it, as well 
Sunday AM was two hot dogs. Snubbed everything else. Sunday PM, see Saturday...but with one or two more kibbles, a green bean or two, and some gravy from KFC.
This AM, was a single hot dog, with some chicken (regular and KFC leftovers), and maybe 1/2 cup kibble. He desn't WANT the kibble, but if I bury the other stuff, he will eat around it.
We no longer will eat Fancy Feast. Nor any other type of wet food, no matter how crappy. I even tried two different kinds of liver treats...denied. Cat food (both the renal failure and premium kinds, as well as the cheapest friskies I could find)=rejected.
And, of course, if any of the foods on the Do Not Fly list even REMOTELY come in contact with the other stuff...no dice.
Right now, the list of things we'll eat fairly consistently, even a little of, is:
Hot dogs
Chicken (plain...except he also will happily eat KFC. Begged for it, in fact)
Crappy dry dog biscuits
ice cream
Deli Ham
Some other stuff is hit or miss. Every day is an adventure
Oh--and Sally...funny you mention letting the others nearby to goad him into eating. That's always been one of our standard go-tos to get him to eat
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
Wow who knew that about Prilosec? Good to know
Others might have mentioned this before but have you tried stinky meats like liverwurst and braunschwager? Or more exotic ones like buffalo or bison? Those often help get the appetite stimulated. Also, check out this post about Goat's Milk in our Nutrition blog, maybe this will work? I'm not sure if it's like PerkiLac though, I'm not familiar with it.
You are an awesome pawrent for sticking to it and working with Sam to help him eat. It's not easy and almost frustrating at times, we totally understand. Stay strong!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
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