Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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I decided to not do chemo because of Mac's continuing kidney problems but mostly because 3 1/2 weeks after amputation his appetite still isn't great and the fact that most dogs with hemangiosarcoma don't even live long enough to complete chemo. I am trying to find a holistic vet in the area. The oncologist at South Paws does not do anything with alternative therapies, just standard chemo, so she wouldn't even comment on artemisinin or cat's claw, etc. The specialist at VRCC gave me the number of someone in the Richmond/Williamsburg area she knew who did holistic care who in turn gave me the email of someone she remembered a long time ago in this area so I emailed them and have been awaiting a response.
Time is running out. For those of you who chose supplements and herbs, did you consult someone or prescribe them yourself? If I for example just start Mac on artemisinin , how do I know what dosage I should give him? Did you just look online for guidelines or should I only wait for a doctor's approval? Do you know of anybody who treats cancer this way who would give a free phone consultation? (lots of questions I know)
I am worried about being able to give anything at all since I can't even get him to take the K9 Immunity , and as for the dietary aspect, I can't go back to a high-protein diet even if I wanted to because his kidney issues require a very low protein diet. But I am desperate to try and do SOMETHING to treat the cancer.
We have Jack on quite a few supplements. We were lucky enough to have someone that works at Camp BowWow where we take our doggies to play send us an e-mail with a bunch of information her friend (whose dog had cancer) had sent her for us with supplements and dosage amounts. If you would like, I can forward it to you or copy and paste it in a post, but it's pretty long. We also get e-mails from Joe Bauer at the Bauer Research Foundation which is how we heard about IP6 and Inositol (you can e-mail him at jabauer@bauerresearch.org to get on his mailing list or if you have any questions). I also did some of my own research. Another thing you can do is go to a vitamin/supplement/health store, and they should have people on staff who know the supplements and can recommend things that people use for cancer – or just walk around and read bottles all day (i've done that, too, heh). As far as consulting someone, you should talk to your vet before starting Mac on something new because sometimes even herbs can have reactions with eachother or different medications he may be on. If I couldn't find anything online for dosage recommendations, I gave Jack one pill to see how he would react to it and worked up from there (sometimes the adult dosage on the bottle is OK, sometimes you may have to give less). There is a TON of stuff to choose from and I found it overwhelming to try and decide which ones I wanted to give…and I keep finding out more awesome things like artemisinin that I would like to try. We currently have Jack on Astragalus, Shark Cartilage, IP6 and Inositol, Pau d'Arco, and Flax Oil. I find supplements quite interesting, so if you find anything out, let us know!!
<3 Laura
BAH! I'll just go ahead and post the e-mail I got…sorry for the length!!
Hey Laura, so my friend lost a dog to cancer a little over a year ago, but she was able to prolong his life considerably once she switched to more natural forms of treatment. He was given a couple weeks to live initially….the vet wanted to put him down, but she started her own program combined with chemo and he lived well over a year. He was pretty sick when he was first diagnosed. I also looked up a holistic vet in the area if you are interested in sort of more natural healing….their website is holisticvetoptions.com. I also asked the naturopathic doctor my husband and I see for a vet referral and he recommended a “Dr. Pam” @ 682-1608. So here is the email Jennie put together for you…..and if you have any questions, I know she'd be happy to speak with you. Hope all is going well.
Well this is what I would recommend. There is now an oncologist in grand rapids.
Is the dog going to the cancer treatment place in GR? That wasnt quite open when Jaws got cancer so I dont know how helpful it is, but they should know alot.
One thing, stay away from Grain foods! Jaws did better when I started boiling meat and hamburger. I got protein based foods with no grains. They might be able to slowly switch to a food where corn, wheat or rice is more towards the bottom of the ingredients rather than in the top 5. Most vets will recommend “Taste of the Wild” and you can get that at most pet stores and it isnt too $$$.
I basically did alot of cancer research on the web. Jaws had lymphnoma. I found a vitamen supplement called K9 immunity
to help him, but it got too pricey so I did something else. I got my own stuff after reading info. The dog will do good if they give him:
>Fish oil: 1000 mg per 20 lbs of dog
>Vitamin C (smash up 1 pill every meal)
>A tablespoon of flaxseed oil daily (keep immune system good) and you can mix with cottage cheese (a tablespoon)
>Green tea capsule – open up a capsule and its like powder and you can mix in food (antioxidents) for every meal
>Sweet potatos cooked arent bad either if mixed with food.
>Yogurt (plain) —-a glob in the food—-helps every now and then to keep stomach digesting good
!!!!!One thing I want to make real clear. Alot of people suggested a dog with cancer go on a natural raw food diet. Well that isnt bad if your dog is used to it and ISNT on chemo, but chemo kills a dogs immune system. That's what is the worse thing about it, and if they eat raw eggs and meat, they dont have the bacterias or immunity to fight off the stuff in raw foods and they end up with infections and fevers. So if they want to give their dog better food, id cook it.
Also chemo will give the dog diaherria and sometimes constipate the dog. So having canned pumpkin and Immodium AD around the house isnt a bad option.
Also canned salmon and sardines in oil or water is real good for the dog. Tons of minerals.
I am goign to also recommend some of these I found online depending on the dogs symptoms. Also read under this, I added a recipe and a link that will help.
Optional Immune stimulants that may be beneficial:
Echinacea: This plant is an immune-system booster. You can find Echinacea in health food stores in several forms: tablets, tinctures, capsules, and extracts of dried or fresh roots. American doctors aren’t familiar with Echinacea but in other countries there as been a lot of research done. Follow adult dosing directions.
Astragalus: This comes from the root of the plant, Astragalus membranaceus. It has been used in China to fight respiratory infections including colds and flu. Studies in the West have confirmed its immune-boosting and antiviral properties. Follow adult dosing directions.
Other purported Anti-Cancer herbs:
Cat's Claw: Uncaria tomentosa, comes from Peruand was used to treat arthritis and cancer. Studies have confirmed that it has antioxidants and immune-enhancing properties. For small dogs, use ¼ the adult dosage and for medium dogs use ½.
Pau D'Arco: This herb is extracted from the bark of the Tahebuia genustree in South America. It contains lapachol and other phytochemicals which produce anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory results. For small dogs, use ¼ the adult dosage and for medium dogs use ½.
Other Dietary Supplements:
Milk Thistle: This helps prevent dog cancer liver damage. It can help treat hepatitisand prevent injury from other drugs. It can protect the liver from chemotherapy and anti-convulsants (phenobarbital). Suggested dosage is 250 mg for a dog under 25 lbs, and 500 mg for a dog over 25 lbs once daily. Milk thistle should be used in most cases of liver cancer, but always ask your veterinarian.
Shark Cartilage: This has anti-angiogenic properties which reduce blood vessels in tumors. You can use 1000-2000 mg of shark cartilage if recommended by your vet or oncologist
Misc:
Essiac tea, Wheatgrass extract, Soybean Concentrate or Chlorella. These are sometimes used, but are not proven treatments.
Spirulina and chlorella provide protein, vitamins and minerals. Miraculous claims made for these products have not been substantiated.
Additional Treatments:
Acupuncture: Acupuncture can relieve pain and provide analgesia without the side effects of drugs. It can stabilize the function of the adrenal gland and increase endogenous corticosteroid secretion without the side effects of steroids. Electrical acupuncture can improve muscle strength and reflex activity. It can help relieve muscle spasms after operations. Acupuncture is usually a process of several treatments. If it doesn’t show results in 3-5 treatments then it probably won’t work. Your veterinarian could refer you to a veterinary acupuncturist.
Static Magnetic Therapy: Static Magnetic Therapy: North pole magnets create alkalinity by decreasing hydrogen ion concentration in tissue. They suppress cell mitosis, viral/bacterial growth, tumors and inflammation. Apply a north pole magnet over the tumor area for 15-20 minutes a day. Medical magnets should be 1000-3000 gauss.
Healing Touch: Healing touch: Some believe that “life force” and “energy” can be transferred to a patient through touch and this will cause healing benefits. No spiritual belief is necessary and there is no harm that can be done. Some studies have shown that touch can reduce stress and blood pressure of the patient. It is not easy to demonstrate the results of healing touch. Petting your sick dog is good therapy for both of you and certainly will not cause you any harm. He or She needs lot's of love and attention at this time, as do you.
If you want more information about these additional treatments please do a search on google.
http://www.dogc...../diet.html
Here is a recipe:
The Canine Cancer Diet:
Most canine cancer patients will do best on a grain free
commercial dog food supplemented with the addition of a partially cooked or raw food diet. If you are concerned with how your dog will react with a raw diet, start off with rare cooked meat and slowly wean them to raw.
Due to the high acid in their stomach, dogs are not susceptible to the bacteria that humans are and a raw diet is a benefit to them. Their stomach acid also allows them to digest bone.
The raw food diet (or BARF diet – Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods) should consist of 75% meat and 25% fruit/veggies
BARF Diet Ingredients:
Bones – they MUST be raw – cooked/smoked bones are never safe as they will splinter
Meat – chunked or ground (beef, lamb, chicken, pork, etc)
Offal (liver, kidneys, heart, unbleached green tripe (which can be purchased in a can at your local gourmet pet food store))
Vegetables – (broccoli, spinach, celery, bok choy, carrot, capsicum)
Fruit – (whole apple, whole pear, whole grapefruit, whole orange)
Other Goodies – Whole egg, flax seed, garlic, kelp, alfalfa, kefir
Yogurt and cottage cheese are good to mix with the fruit/veggies to entice the dog to eat them
Recipe – 1 week of raw meat patties for a 50 pound active dog
4 lbs ground meats – beef and/or lamb and/or chicken and/or turkey
2 cups raw goat milk or 1 cup yogurt or cottage cheese
3 raw eggs
1 apple
1 glove garlic
2 carrots
1.5 pound mixed veggies (such as sweet potato, broccoli, zucchini, kale, spinach)
Mix in food processor and make into patties to freeze
I hope this helps and good luck to that doggy. It is a roller coaster and chemo can be harsh….but i hope it gets that dog into remission.
Hope some of this helps!
Wonderful feedback from Laura there! Along those lines, if you haven't already, be sure to check out Jerry's canine cancer diet and supplements overview.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
That's great info....thanks for including the whole thing! I wish I could get Mac to take as many supplements as you give Jack. He doesn't take them in anything usually so it turns into a two-man job. One person opens up his jaw and sticks the pill down his throat while the other squirts water from a syringe to make him swallow. It's not fun. He'll eat some meat but since we're trying to limit the amount of protein he gets and mainly give carbs it complicates things. We can't even give the K9 Immunity but I'd like to try another supplement anyway. I never got an email back from that one holistic doctor so I'm still emailing other doctors I find online trying to get a response. I think I may just start things without vet approval since they don't seem to know much about herbs anyway, and they give me a lecture about ordering things like that from China. It's very hard to know what to do.
jackiandmac said:
I decided to not do chemo because of Mac's continuing kidney problems but mostly because 3 1/2 weeks after amputation his appetite still isn't great and the fact that most dogs with hemangiosarcoma don't even live long enough to complete chemo. I am trying to find a holistic vet in the area. The oncologist at South Paws does not do anything with alternative therapies, just standard chemo, so she wouldn't even comment on artemisinin or cat's claw, etc. The specialist at VRCC gave me the number of someone in the Richmond/Williamsburg area she knew who did holistic care who in turn gave me the email of someone she remembered a long time ago in this area so I emailed them and have been awaiting a response.
WHO IS THIS WOMAN AT SOUTH PAWS!!! I want to complain about her!!! SOUTH PAWS HAS A HOLISTIC PRACTICE RIGHT IN THEIR BUILDING. The doctor there made time in his over booked schedule on Friday on less than 2 hours notice to give Zeus accupuncture for his legs because they were getting stiff from bring in a crate all week...then he left me this wonderful message about starting a holisitic program for his kidneys, sadly...we didn't get the chance to start it BUT YOU DO.
Call Dr. Kocen at 703-752-9501.
Call me if you want a friend to meet you there. You have my email address.
Love and prayers
Heather and Spirit Zeus
Heather and Spirit Zeus - Our life changing journey…from the earth to the heavens…one day at a time…always together
I guess I screwed up the quote and reply thing! Oops - mommy's had a ruff day 
Heather and Spirit Zeus - Our life changing journey…from the earth to the heavens…one day at a time…always together
lol don't fret about the post...been there. The discovery of a holistic place right there made me pissed. The fact that that woman, Dr. Jankowski, wouldn't even mention it when I told her how hard I was looking hard for a holistic vet....
argh. I can't believe that. I mean, this is Mac's life we're dealing with! The HS is most likely spreading through his body like wildfire, and she can't even drop the name of a doctor who is at the same place. Ooo...deep breath Jaclyn, deep breath lol.
Thank you so much for giving me the contact info....I'm gonna call on Monday. I'm hoping at the very least I can get some suggestions or dosage guidelines.
Y'know what really makes me mad is that I paid that woman for phone consultations with her. And every time I talked she seemed rushed and not very caring. I asked her if she would take a look at Mac's most recent kidney tests to get her take and she said she'd call once she got them. I called up VRCC and made sure they faxed all his info......yeah, no phone call. That was a week ago. It's not the first time from her---in the past month when she hasn't been available to talk I've left lots of messages and never got a call back. I've always had to call again and just hope that this time she can talk to me....for two minutes. Anyway...
I'm sorry that Zeus wasn't able to get the kidney help in time. You never know when stuff like that is going to hit. At least he gets some acupuncture. My sister's dog had acupuncture and it seemed to really help him with pain from hip dysplasia. I've tried it myself and it didn't help me. It's worth a shot though, and it doesn't hurt really. Funky though when they stick the needle in between your toes and inside your ears. I have no idea about the locations on dogs....seems like all the fur would hinder finding the right spot.
Wow, just catching up on the crap you had to go through Jacki, I'm so sorry.
Some doctors need a good lesson in patient communication. I read somewhere that there are less than 100 veterinary oncologists in the entire U.S., so on the one hand I can understand how slammed they are with clients and I'd like to cut them some slack, but on the other hand there is NO excuse to treat people or pets so badly.
Oh, in case your vet ever questions it, the medicinal mushrooms from K9 Immunity are 100 percent certified organic, entirely grown/processed in the U.S. They are the only company who guarantees this (which I assume explaines their higher cost than other mushroom supplements).
As for acupuncture...my Dad said the same thing. Didn't help him one bit when he tried it, but for me, it was instant pain relief. My acupuncturist told us animals do better than humans because animals are more open to the practice, without any preconcieved ideas about it, fear of needles, etc. Made a lot of sense to us.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Sometimes the problem is not only communicating with the patients, but to my amazement other vets. I thought part of my problem was my distance from the oncologist this summer, then she mentions that she has lots of long-distance patients who come for chemo (so then why haven't they worked out a system for communicating, one wonders).
When I first met the oncologist, before we began chemo, I requested that she speak with the vet in Winnipeg so we could be assured they could follow the same chemo protocol. When I spoke with the vet in WPG a couple of weeks later, no-one had yet phoned. Before I left Calgary, on the last chemo day there, I asked the "nurse-oncologist" (sounds like an important title, doesn't it?) to send Tazzie's files including bloodwork. Of course they were not in Winnipeg when I saw the vet here two weeks later.
By this time, the Winnipeg vet herself or her assistants had phoned at least three times to request updated files, but nothing had arrived from the oncologist. I left a phone message indicating that we really needed the protocol so they could order the chemo drug for the following week, plus bloodwork since his creatinine was high (damn). Finally I get a phone message and I assume the files have been sent.
Maybe they are busy, but in my experience busy and well-qualified people are the ones who get things done! Given the prices the specialist clinic charges, there is simply no excuse. They can hire another assistant if that is what they need. The oncologist is personable when you meet her, but that is not enough when you have a sick pet at home. And part of the problem seems to be a lack of respect for GP vets. They kept indicating that they can mitigate side effects of chemo because of all their know-how and equipment. It did not seem to me that they did a particularly good job at avoiding or monitoring side effects.
Thankfully the new GP vet is very communicative, leaving messages about results and that sort of thing. But do we stay with the same oncologist as consultant when communication, with other vets as well as the patient is such a fundamental problem? I guess this post will seal our fate.
There were times when I wondered whether they were really recommending the best treatment for Tazzie (the best chemo drug) or possibly the one that resulted in the largest monetary gain for the clinic. That is probably not justified, but it crossed my mind. That is certainly something I never have to wonder when meeting with human doctors given the Canadian health care system (I better stop because I really am not trying to start a controversy!).
I just wanted to give an update on Mac and my ongoing holistic care pursuit.
Mac is about the same overall...on Monday it will be 6 weeks post-op. His colitis has calmed in the past week and he hasn't had diarrhea in the house in about a week and a half with the help of daily metronidazole and his bland diet. He is still taking fish oil, K9 Immunity , Pepcid, Enalapril (for his kidneys), Winstrol, and milk thistle. The food combination that he'll take his pills in this week is soft white bread, crusts off, torn into pieces, one pill in each piece and the bread squashed down around it, and the whole thing dipped in baked pinto beans & ham juice. He still hasn't regained an appetite, still hasn't played once, gone for a walk, or barked normally. Ever since the surgery he has sorta a droopy third-eyelid thing going on most of the time too. He is strong enough to walk around to go to the bathroom outside though and come begging when he sees me grab a bag of chips lol. His last kidney test was the same and he has another kidney panel and creatinine urine test on Monday.
I contacted the holistic care center at South Paws but unfortunately the soonest appointment is October 28, which is just too long. I have made several calls and emails around Virginia and been on the http://www.ahvm..... ...it has some pretty good information on it. I feel nervous about just starting him on herbs with his kidney problems and with the other medication he's taking in case they don't mix well.
So that's about it. I wish in six weeks recovery I had better news and funny stories.......oh well, I still have hope. I'm going to try and take him to the park this weekend...so he can lie in the grass and look bored lol
Jacki,
Thanks for the detailed update. That is cute about how you're giving him his pills!Ham juice and beans...who wouldda thought? Lucky boy!
Hang in there, six weeks still isn't that long (although I know it seems like a million years). Please don't worry that you don't have funny stories or good news. It's good for everyone to know that recovery can definitely take a while, but as long as it's a slow and steady progress, that's good.
That really stinks about not being able to see a holistic vet for so long. Just so you know, our friend the Tripawd sled dog, Calpurnia, has phone consulted with Dr. Loops, and she's almost 2 years out from diagnosis. I hear his information is very, very helpful and worth the consult.
Also, have you considered trying Dr. Marty's Smith Ridge Veterinary Center? They specialize in holistic cancer treatment, do phone consults with people all around the world, and are very, very successful with their methods. We wrote about Dr. Marty's book, the Nature of Animal Healing recently.
Many hugs to you and Mac, keep us posted oK?
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Jacki,
I am just appalled that you are having such a hard time getting the information that you want. I can not imagine leaving messages and not getting a phone call that very day! Every time I hear anything like that it makes me so glad we found OSU Veternary Hospital (Columbus, Oh). There is no excuse.
October 28 seems sooooo far away but you are already following a holistic protocol.
Good luck with Mac. Keep us posted.
Debra
Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.
I would prefer to get a local homeopathy but since that seems to not be likely I probably will try Dr. Loops or Dr. Marty.
Mac had his kidney panel today and his albumin is still the same but his creatinine is almost normal *does an embarassing happy dance*. His urine creatinine/protein ratio test though won't be in for a couple days. I have a suspicion that his albumin is just not going to go up–I guess I should just learn to be content with a 1.7. I was thinking about trying to pursue acupuncture for kidney problems but maybe it's not absolutely necessary now…I dunno. I discussed with the vet Mac's not wanting to eat anything (the bread doesn't work now) or take his pills, and I mentioned prednisone and he said that would be an option but we are going to try Mirtazapine (Remeron) first and stop the Winstrol. I don't think I realized that they prescribe antidepressants for other things like appetite stimulation. I was on an antidepressant when I was 15 that made me gain 40 lbs in 2 weeks….I don't know if it's used in veterinary care but I thought it might be worth a try.
Since he's not eating he's lost another 2 pounds. He currently weighs 57.5. To think that he was once 82 pounds! I just hope this new med works. Has anybody done acupuncture for appetite loss?
Lots of hugs back, and some of those european double kisses.
I had a Dr. Pam recommended to me by a staff member at a place we used to take Jack to play. She may be able to do a phone consult. I am planning on taking Jack to Dr. Sodhi out here and he was voted best holistic vet in the seattle area. He may be able to do a phone consult as well or point you to someone out in your area. Good luck!!
<3 Laura and Jackers
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