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Carboplatin -- super low energy after 2 rounds, debating whether to continue
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Member Since:
15 March 2023
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29 April 2023 - 9:50 am
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Hi all, 

My sweet 12 year old boy Elmer is about 7 weeks out from front leg amputation for what turned out to be parosteal osteosarcoma. It's a very rare type, so there's not good evidence re: treatment protocols, and our local oncologist said she'd prefer we use the conventional osteosarcoma protocol given the possibility (probability) of metastatic disease, which he appears free of now - her take is 6 carbonplatin rounds spread 3 weeks apart.

We've done two treatments, and it really is up and down tho his blood tests look good. Elmer is older and a bit arthritic, but had found his hop and zest, and then each treatments seems to set him back energetically.  This round, he was ignoring food (a major red flag as this pup eats with zeal) and while cerenia helped a bit, he just seems depressed and lethargic.

Curious if any of you have a similar experience. Part of me wants to quit all the interventions and just cherish the days we have.

Thanks, 

Emily

The Rainbow Bridge



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25 April 2007
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29 April 2023 - 9:45 pm
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Hey Emily. There are quite a few folks here whose dogs also had up and down side effects. Have you talked to the oncologist about the effects? Have they adjusted therapy to try to help him bounce back better?

The one thing about chemo is it's optional. You can always stop if you feel the treatment has too great an impact on his quality of life. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

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30 April 2023 - 6:30 pm
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Thanks, Jerry.  Yes, I've been in close contact with the onco. She tends to be aggressive (in the positive sense of that) so really is encouraging us to continue, but I agree with you that it's optional. It's not a sure enough thing to make too many of his days bad.... I am curious is anyone has any papers to share on 4 v 6 treatments, as we're done two.

Thanks again, 
Emily

Colorado
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1 May 2023 - 8:20 am
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I go into the vet tomorrow for Ellie's 2nd carboplatin treatment.  She elected to do 4 stating that there is has been no difference in survival rated between 4 and 6 treatments.  I'll ask her which study(s) to see if I can pass them on to you.

The Rainbow Bridge



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1 May 2023 - 12:11 pm
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OK so way back in 2014, a study came out that said 6 sessions is best. Scientists found that dogs could tolerate 6 sessions with as few side effects as 4, and the results appeared to be better with 6. See:

How Many Chemotherapy Sessions are Best for Osteosarcoma in Dogs?

Maybe 5 or so years later, it was determined that 4 sessions were adequate and still provided the same longevity results as 6. I thought we had some info on that here but I can't find it at the moment.

Colorado
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1 May 2023 - 1:28 pm
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I emailed my oncologist and she referenced the 2014 study that the link Jerry shared is referring to.  I have a copy of the study if you'd like it. She also sent this response, which I appreciated.

"Hi Whitney,

Kara passed your question along to me- I am one of the medical oncologists at CSU and oversee our oncology clinical trials program. Your question is a great one, and one that we all have had as veterinary oncologists. The main study that we quote to say that there is no difference in outcome for dogs receiving 4 vs 6 doses of carboplatin was a study published out of CSU about 9 years ago, and I am attaching a copy of this paper for your reference. The main goal of this study was to look at differences in outcomes and side effects for dogs with osteosarcoma treated with carboplatin or another drug, called doxorubicin, which is also commonly used to treat dogs with this disease. This was a retrospective study, meaning the patients had already been treated when the data were collected, and all of the data were obtained from the medical records of these patients. Because of this, there were some dogs included that had received a 4 dose protocol and others a 6 dose protocol of carboplatin. The study did not find any differences in outcomes for dogs treated with 4 vs 6 doses of carboplatin or carboplatin vs doxorubicin. This was quite a large study (470 dogs), but given that it is retrospective, it does not provide as high of a level of evidence as a prospective trial would. Unfortunately, the fact is that most of the research that is published in veterinary medicine is retrospective in nature, so it can sometimes make it tough to interpret the results. The other problem with this is that we will often see conflicting results with retrospective studies (i.e. one paper may say there is no difference between 4 and 6 doses and another may find something different), which can make it tough to know if there is any true difference.

From a clinical trials perspective, there is a specific reason we treat dogs with osteosarcoma that are enrolled in clinical trials that use carboplatin with four doses. That is because there was a prospective clinical trial conducted a few years ago that enrolled 324 dogs with osteosarcoma from multiple different hospitals that compared dogs that received amputation followed by 4 doses of carboplatin to dogs that received this same treatment plus another drug. One of the goals of this study was to provide prospectively collected information about dogs treated with what is considered to the standard of care for comparison for future trials. That way, when we do clinical trials like the one in which Ellie is participating, we have a reference population to which we can compare our results.

Hopefully this helps to answer your question. I apologize if any of it is confusing, and I’d be happy to speak with you about this at Ellie’s visit tomorrow if you would like. The one thing I can promise you is that we would not be doing this trial as it is designed if we thought that there was a clear benefit to 6 doses of carboplatin over 4. I hope Ellie is doing well, and we look forward to seeing both of you tomorrow!

Take care,

Kristen Weishaar, DVM, MS, DACVIM (Oncology)

Director of Clinical Trials

Flint Animal Cancer Center

Colorado State University"

The Rainbow Bridge



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1 May 2023 - 8:22 pm
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WOW! I love love love Dr. Weishaar! Makes total sense. Thank you for sharing.

It's incredible that she took so much time to explain everything. I need to interview her again, it's been years. Did you see her webinar here?

https://tripawd.....d-answers/

Virginia







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22 February 2013
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3 May 2023 - 11:11 am
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Just catching up on your sweet Elmer.in time to add my FWIW

2 cents.

The Oncologist for Happy Hannah also went with four rounds.  Pretty much also said "more isn't necessarily  better"..  And if it makes people feel better, she'll do it, but didn't feel there was any real advantage.  Now, take that FWIW.  Whatever feels right for you and Elmer, is the "right" decision. 

Let us  know how things are going.

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Colorado
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4 May 2023 - 9:59 am
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Did you see her webinar here?
  

I hadn't!  How cool, I'll definitely listen to it ASAP. Thanks for sharing.

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13 May 2023 - 2:51 pm
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Oh my gosh. Thank you so much, all of you, for this terrific feedback and information. Truth be told, I needed a couple weeks to pretend everything is normal and only just logged back in. I will consider all of this, and make our decision. I think I am leaning toward 4 and then giving Elmer a good summer, if that works out 🙂

Thank you!
Emily

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