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Update: Tazzie 2 home from surgery
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Storm
16
21 July 2009 - 3:32 am
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Hi Susan and Tazzie,

I am glad that you got Tazzie home.  I would have been a nervous wreck during the 3 hour trip by myself.  When I picked Koda up from the Vet after his amputation I had my sister drive as it was an hour away and I could sit in the back with him and make sure he didn't jump around. 

I have only just now read your comments about Tazzie only peeing small amounts.  I was starting to wonder the opposite with Koda as he was peeing about 4 times a day and they have been the longest pees(he is a big dog but I swear they are longer than previously).  I put it down to, it is Winter here and we have had the reverse cycle air con on heating all through the night to keep Koda comfortable and it can be drying so I figured he has been drinking a lot of water, hence peeing big amounts.  Koda has been lucky when it comes to peeing because he has always squated as opposed to lifting his leg.  So he hasn't had to get over the hurdle of having to work out how to squate and pee.  I had never thought of this though until I had read your post above.  It is so nice being able to share what we are going through so that we feel like we are doing some good by our best friends.  Koda did come up with a bit more bruising over the weekend, a couple of days post op.  And because they shaved his lower belly originally for the scans you can see how low the bruising goes and it even goes under the other front leg (which I am watching carefully). 

I haven't let Koda over do the running around but have let him go down 3 stairs with us towel under his belly for us to catch him if he stumbles but so he feels like he is doing it on his own, and it seems to be working well.  He broke my heart the other day when he was trying to go up them and got his front paw onto the second step but started shaking nervously and I could see he was trying to move the amputated limb (the shoulder movement as you explained earlier).  He let out a little cry of "help what do I do".  So we backed up and and I let him take it a bit faster.  If he gets a bit of momentum up he handles going up a lot better but it always scares me he is going to wipe his side out on the top step or step up into the house so we get the towel ready!!!   

I think Koda is getting sick of lieing on the same side (especially with on the one side of his hips).  Hopefully once the stitches are out he will feel a bit better to lie on the amputated side.  How long did it take other dogs to lie on their amputated side?

Oh and Susan here is Australia (and I know it is all over the world) I have heard about a travelling network where a traveller will sleep at your house and they do chores etc as payment for letting them stay with you.  There are 2 categories where some will sleep on a couch and some require a room.  I am sure if you googled this you may come up with something.  I have only heard about someone through a friend having a backpacker staying a week with them and they would cook dinner and clean as repayment.  I don't know where you live (suburbs or sticks) but thought I would mention this anyway.  I don't think I would be comfortable leaving my dog with a stranger but if you had someone recommended???  Or someone who has a older child (17 or older) who still lives at home and would love the freedom for a couple of days and also loves animals...  Or maybe a boarding kennel could be the answer as they are fully set up with your animal in mind and would have the common sense to take Tazzie to your vet if something happened...  Oh I don't envy your decision or position with having to go away even for a few days.  I hope it works out smoothly for you and Tazzie so you are both happy with what happens.

Well till next time,

Storm and Koda:)

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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17
21 July 2009 - 10:10 am
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Thanks for the responses Storm & Koda and Jerry. It helps to compare notes with Koda's progress although I realize each dog will be different. The bruising around the suture area is clearly up nicely, and I don't think that is as tender. But I am getting worried about Tazzie's reluctance to move - last night I found him sitting and panting on the couch twice, when he should have been sleeping. Obviously he was not feeling well.

The vet (the specialist who is 3 hr away) just phoned. Tazzie was so active (re: hyper and panicked) at the clinic that he is surprised to hear that Tazzie is not doing so well now. I sure wish they did a follow up before we drove home yesterday.

Even to get him to the 'local vet' will take 1 hr, which I do not want to put him through. Plus the local vet will sedate dogs for absolutely everything (every x-ray, even when the dog is very calm), so I don't know what he can figure out without sedation. But I'll probably have to take him there if things stay the same today.

Questions:

(1) Tazzie's basic posture, if standing, is somewhat hunched with tail curled under his belly, which normally is a sign of pain. And he just does not want to take any steps at all, even on the grass (unless he sees someone and then he perks up)

Have any of you with long waisted dogs (short legs, long body), noticed them carrying their back ends in a somewhat hunched position? That gets the hind limbs further forward. I just don't know if it is a balance issue, or if he has something wrong going on in the abdomen. (He did have torsion June 1 to complicate things, but is eating and drinking, with a certain amount coming out the back end.)

He usually looks fairly comfortable when he does lie down and rest (yes, always on the same side and never tosses and turns).

I do not get a specific pain response when I touch the abdomen. It is pretty full, but then he is eating more than he is pooping.

(2) Can the tramadol be adding to the constipation or general discomfort? I was thinking of going down to once per day (100 mg) from twice per day to see if things improve. The vet did not think there would be side effects from tramadol.

Susan

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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21 July 2009 - 10:58 am
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Hi Susan,

I'd say the panting is normal. Remember, everything that he did before the surgery goes out the window for a bit as his body adjusts to the major trauma it just had happen to it.

Painkillers can definitely make him consitpated. Lots of people say that giving a constipated dog some pumpkin pulp can help with that.

Always remember that if your vet is doing something that makes you uncomfortable, you have every right in the world to ask that he not put your dog through that. Remember, you are the client and you pay his bills.

Hang in there, I'll bet things pick up today. Remember, he's not going to be running amok and playing like crazy yet, so try to look for even the slightest bit of improvement. I'll bet you'll see some.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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28 November 2008
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21 July 2009 - 3:16 pm
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Susan, those first two weeks are just tough.  Probably moreso for us humans that for our furkids.  There is no typical behavior, they all heal at their own pace.  Many experience the panting you described.  Many aren't too active initially.  Some want to have a sling for support, while others in just a day or so will insist they can get around on their own.

We had some experimenting with the pain meds before we hit on a combo that worked.  Trouble came off the meds about day 7 and it was just a little too soon for her.  Gave her a smaller dose for just a few days longer and she was back on the mends.  I really sympathize with you being so far from the vet.  My goodness, 3 hours is a long way from the surgeon.  I am sure under the circumstance they would be happy to consult with you over the phone.  It will at least put your mind at ease a little.

Hope you guys get over the tough part soon.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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21 July 2009 - 3:53 pm
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I know I am definitely hogging the tripawds stage today but I am determined to figure out the root to Tazzie's current problems. On the bright side - take note Storm and Koda - Tazzie was sleeping on his amputated side today! I did not expect to ever see that and you mentioned it just this morning. The bruising is definitely less than yesterday, so that side now seems free (relatively) of pain.

Also on the bright side, when a friend visited - a friend who is notorious for giving Tazzie all sorts of really gross treats (in dog that means delectable), Tazzie still went over, barked and was generally bright and bushy tailed. (At least the tail has not been shaved yet with all the surgeries he has had this summer - pretty soon there will only be fur on the face and tail.) He stretches out in a fairly relaxed posture when resting. He also got up and hopped over to say goodbye, so it was great to see spontaneous movement. But most of the time, he will only hop when cajoled and he hops slowly, whereas on days 1 and 2, his only speed was fast or ultra-fast.

I deduced that he seems perfectly comfortable when resting, so the hunched posture with tail touching the belly only shows up when standing. So, yay, it must not be a major internal life-threatening issue (as I feared this morning), but instead is more likely to be something that happened on the initial days of hopping - perhaps to his spine or one of the legs. I don't see any obviously painful site, although I have not had the heart to really prod and poke (he has been prodded and poked by so many other people lately)

My question is whether any of your dogs, or other dogs that appeared on this site, had similar symptoms early in their hopping career. If you can direct me to relevant posts from the past, it would be appreciated.

Susan

p.s. I can't wait to get to high-speed internet where I see Jack's movies!

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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22 July 2009 - 1:59 pm
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Looking up:

Thanks to Koda, Tika, Cemil, Armstrong, Jack, Jerry and many other canines (especially the late bloomers) for relating notes from their early days.

Tazzie is showing some improvements today. The biggest highlight was when I looked outside and saw him hopping over to 'the deep woods', a patch of tall grass about 75 ft from the house where I had left him, where he did both kinds of his business (yay). It appeared he might get stuck out there, but he made the trip back despite the (very) gentle incline. I think I had arrived to help with the sling by that time. He was very tired after all that exercise, but that is fine. Another time I went outside and could not find him - I had left him on a long rope next to a tree - but eventually figured out he was at the other end of the rope and had just moved to another spot shaded by a table and blanket. He does seem more motivated to move around when left alone - or when a dog or a person other than me shows up. When he is inside, he occasionally rolls on his back, as well as he currently can do missing one arm, so looks relaxed.

He still looks as though it pains him when he walks too quickly, by hunching up, but things definitely look much brighter than they did the last four days. He definitely walks slower than I thought possible for a 3-legged dog. I thought they had to move fast to keep their balance.

It is interesting to read about the cohort that is currently one to two months ahead - as we start to contemplate the possibility of chemo. I am just starting to read those posts. If all continues to go well, we will probably begin chemo next Wednesday, which means another trip to the city.

Susan and Tazzie

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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22 July 2009 - 2:09 pm
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Tazzie said:

He does seem more motivated to move around when left alone – or when a dog or a person other than me shows up. When he is inside, he occasionally rolls on his back, as well as he currently can do missing one arm, so looks relaxed.

He still looks as though it pains him when he walks too quickly, by hunching up, but things definitely look much brighter than they did the last four days. He definitely walks slower than I thought possible for a 3-legged dog. I thought they had to move fast to keep their balance.

Susan and Tazzie


Well, it sounds like Tazzie's way of coping is to be by himself. That sounds pretty normal to me. Just keep an eye on him, without hovering, and watch for more improvement.

As for the moving fast...yep, it happens eventually, you'll be surprised at how quickly he moves. For now, it seems like Tazzie is just needing some extra time to heal. Hang in there.

Maybe I missed this, but have you and the vet decided what kind of chemo you're going to do?

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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22 July 2009 - 4:00 pm
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Yes, the trick is "to keep an eye on him without hovering". Most (most people at the ranch, not any of you!) would think it absurd to have a 3-legged dog, just home from the hospital, tied up to a tree (for that matter, they will really think I'm a nutbar when they see his leg removed or hear about chemo for dogs!). Tazzie is more likely to get up and move around a bit if left off the line (a good thing). But of course I can just imagine him wanting to run over to see another dog or a person he sees, only to move too fast and regret it later.

I have not met with the oncologist to discuss chemo - the two oncologists were on holiday last week when we were in Calgary for the surgery. The surgeon, from the same clinic, indicated it would be 5 treatments, three weeks apart, but did not discuss what would be used. The oncologist expects (1) to meet with Tazzie and me, remove the sutures and discuss chemo, and do the first treatment the very same day. I want at least one night to digest the information, so expect (2) to go to Calgary one day ahead for the consult, with the idea that we would begin chemo the next day. But I think I'd prefer (3) to do the consult by phone next Monday (given the geography problem), before going there so I at least have an idea what chemicals they plan to use or the options. They prefer to consult in person to the phone, but they have to realize there is a geography issue (the 3 hr drive - should I change Tazzie's name to Gilligan??). To have the consult in person, we should have set it up for last Monday.

Advice is welcome about chemo. I'll also dig into old posts this week.

Susan

Kirkland, WA
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2 June 2009
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22 July 2009 - 5:11 pm
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We had our second chemo appointment last Wednesday.  Jack gets Adriamycin which is administered via IV and takes about 20 minutes (our oncologist's tech, Stacy, sits with him the whole time).  Before each chemo Jack is given separate exams by the tech AND our oncologist (to make sure nothing was missed) and has a CBC test.  The whole process takes about an hour and a half.  They send him out with a wrap covering the IV spot, but Jack usually takes it off by the time we get home.  We are supposed to do 6 treatments, but may only be able to afford 4 or 5 (I hope at least 5!  ours costs around $400 per treatment every 3 weeks).  Adriamycin is supposed to be a pretty good chemo drug, but the downside it that it affects the heart...each time a treatment is given, the heart is damaged a little.  Because of this, there is a lifetime limit that dogs are allowed to get of the drug.  Some dogs have symptoms after chemo.  Because the drugs kill fast-producing cells, areas that contain these types of cells normally tend to react.  This means that dogs will often have diarrhea or nausea.  Your Oncologist will probably send you home with an anti-nausea drug, and you can also give your dog doses of immodium (i'm not sure of the exact dosage for that so you would have to ask your vet).  The week after chemo you will have to take Tazzie in for another CBC (complete blood count) test to make sure he has the proper ratio of white blood cells, red blood cells, and platelettes (it may also turn up other things but I'm not sure on that).  We have been pretty lucky in that Jack has had absolutely no side effects from the chemo, and we just found out his blood test he got done today came back perfect!  I hope yours goes as smoothly as ours Superstar

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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22 July 2009 - 6:16 pm
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Thanks Jack! That intro to chemo and Adriamycin is extremely helpful! If I get a similar review for the other common drug and the pros and cons of each (is that something like carboplatin (sp)?), I'll be well on the way. Jack seems so resilient and not set back by any of these challenges! Glad your tests came out perfect, yet again! What a trooper!

Did you start chemo two weeks after surgery?

Were Cherry's problems because she started chemo right after surgery?

Susan

Laura
26
22 July 2009 - 7:46 pm
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Hi Susan,

Not sure I have much more to add, but Toffee is on Adriamycin as Jack is. Some use that in conjunction with Cisplatin but our vet was against it and we're going the other alone.  Jack and Toffee are pretty much on the same schedule, Toffee had her second treatment last week as well. She had no effects from the first treatment, but hit a rough spot this time around. No nausea, but diarrhea, and now we think stomach ache.  She has her blood work two weeks after treatment and then next treatment two weeks later. I'm still not sure how many she will have (I've just never asked....can't tell you why) but I think doc said four.  She started treatments two weeks after surgery.  I've read where some have started chemo the same day as surgery. Every case is different.

I have to agree with what Jerry said about Tazzie coping better by himself.  Toffee is not my "cuddle dog" and I think she was sick and tired of my hovering and two days after surgery when I turned my back she went down the basement stairs to get away from me!  

Let us know how the consults go.

Laura and Toffee 

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28 May 2008
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22 July 2009 - 8:22 pm
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Hi Susan - I can help out with carboplatin...that's what we used. From what our oncologist told me, only 2% of the dogs get ill from it. Zeus never did. We did 4 treatments 3 weeks apart. Here is how it went:

Surgery (April 9, 2008), Stitches removed 2 weeks later and meeting with oncologist. I was SOOOOO concerned about side effects and actually went into the appointment with the decision made that I wouldn't put my baby through chemo. After hearing the success stories, the increased chance of survival and the low percentage of side effects, basically we came to the conclusion that we could always stop treatment if Zeus became ill or uncomfortable. We had come this far with the amputation so we moved forward. We did a treatment that day. There were no side effects except Zeus feeling a bit tired that day of treatment (I always scheduled them in the morning). Before the next treatment we did blood work and his counts were a little low, but still OK for treatment - we did the treatment and he was given antibiotics "just in case". Before the 3rd treatment, we had to have xrays done (and blood work). All clear - treatment number 3 - antibiotics again "just in case". Blood work again before treatment #4 and we were good to go - last one was done around the third week of June. Phew! We made it! Total cost was a little under $2,000. Treatments were literally a 10 minute IV...that was about it.

My doc also recommended 2 treatments of pamidrinite - a bone strengthening treatment given via IV for about 4 hours each...one month apart. This was supposed to strengthen the remaining bones. Though there were not any clinical studies on it at the time, her success rate was huge with this - longer life span. (These treatments were about $400 each)

Zeus is 11 years old and we are almost 16 months post amputation with no signs of cancer anywhere else in his body. I just had my doc do xrays of EVERYTHING to make sure nothing has spread to other legs, spine, etc...He is my rockstar.

Good luck with your decisions - we'll be thinking about you. I hope this info helps. And last but surely not least...always stay pawsitive Wink

Please keep us posted.

xo

Heather and Zeus

Heather and Spirit Zeus - Our life changing journey…from the earth to the heavens…one day at a time…always together

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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23 July 2009 - 9:42 am
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Zeus - Wow. I did not know you were that far post-amp. Congratulations! Okay then, you have permission to call me a 'she'. Good to know about the chemo you had to strengthen bones - I'll look into that one.

Right now, day 8 post-amp, I kind of feel as though I'm just propping Tazzie up (metaphorically as well as sometimes literally) for my sake not his, by doing the surgery and treatments. I assume and hope he will improve so that feeling will change.

Susan

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