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Presto's Story, Need advice on immune system support during chemo
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Member Since:
8 November 2012
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20 November 2012 - 4:03 pm
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First of all, thank you to the people who led me to this place the day after we discovered that our 7 3/4 year old Irish Water Spaniel, Presto had what was at that time (and later confirmed) Osteosarcoma in the hock area of his right rear leg, Tracy and Sumac. They have been there for me from day one. 

 

Just after Canadian Thanksgiving (Oct 8th), I noticed that Presto was favoring his right rear leg, initially periodically, and over the next few days, more often than not. Friends from out of town had been visiting and not being dog people, had been throwing his Jolly ball into a fenced area which meant he had been making hard turns to get off the tiered decks to the ball.. until I realized what they were doing and quietly put the ball away, and showed them the jumps and how to send him for bumpers on flat ground. 

 

We had checked toenails, pads, felt along his entire spine, and leg to see if we could locate the source of what was bothering him.. he had been swimming daily, doing retriever drills and agility through the summer, and been mistaken at a distance for a 2 year old due to his energy level. I was due to leave for the American Assoc. of Pet Dog Trainer's conference, on Oct. 17, and decided that rather than take him for chiropractic and acupuncture, I had better take him for an x-ray, since it seemed it might be an ACL tear, despite the lack of heat and swelling. 

 

Oct. 16th, as the vet, vet tech and I held Presto in place for an x-ray, the vet ran her hand along the leg, after having examined it and said she did not think it was ACL, but agreed an x-ray was in order... she got to the hock and much to her own surprise as well as mine, uttered an OMG... took another shot, and put the x-ray up to show a very messy picture, which she said she could only imagine was Osteosarcoma. She did a referral to Ontario Vetinary College at the University of Geulph which is less than 1/2 hour from here, for further imaging, but suggested we investigate Stereotactic Radiography. With a heavy heart, and after long discussion with my partner, we agreed I should go ahead to the conference because we could not get the appt. for the procedure until I returned from Kentucky. The day I returned, we met again with the vets at the University, listened to their opinions, said we were going to do the bone-saving technique, and then drove directly to our wholistic vet. Although she does not have a post-doc in Radiology, she put the images on the computer up, enlarged them and pointed out a hairline fracture in the bone, which meant that the bone-saving procedure was not an option... so cancelled, all that, and scheduled the amputation. In the meantime, I had met people I knew at APDT who put me in touch with Tracy, who led me here... downloaded the e-book and began reading everything I could find here (SO helpful, it is hard to imagine coming through what followed without it).

 

We had to argue to have them keep part of his tibia in place, partly to make it possible to use a harness that we had which hooked around both rear legs in order to help him get up, before we could order the RuffWear harness, and partly to have an area on which acupuncture could apparently be done more easily to help with any Phantom limb pain.

 

The day of surgey, it became clear that something was not quite right... no phone calls from the surgeon, even after repeated calls, and ultimately calling to say that if no one called us, we would be there in a half an hour in person. He had gone in at 9:30 a.m. and at 6:30 p.m., a Resident finally phoned .... stammering and obviously very nervous, and before even saying Presto was alive, said there had been an "accident." My partner, Marg, and I were both on the phone, as he bumbled along... and we had to be quite aggressive (when assertive did not cut it) practically shouting... "Is Presto alive???" 

 

Yes, he was alive and the amputation had been done, but the plate which is put under patients (human and canine) to ground the electricity generated by the cauterization tool, had slipped out from under him, and he had been being burned on his thorax during the entire surgery by the table which was serving as the ground resulting in 3rd degree burns. 

 

We were down at the hospital the next morning to find a frantic dog, whining .. with the various parties there to try to placate us... saying, "See he is so happy to see you, he is whining." I pointed out that he is not a dog who whines when excited or happy, but a butt wagger, and his tail was pinned to his stomach, he was whimpering and in obvious pain. He had had a poor reaction to Gabapentin before the surgery.. and they then, admitted he was dysphoric with one of the pain meds they had given him. Clearly his pain was not under control... and again we had to be very pushy to get agreement that they woud increase the low dose of Tramadol he was on and find another pain med to replace the other one (name escapes me).

 

His amputation was Oct. 26, and he was kept in hospital because of the burn for 4 nights...when we went to get him, they said we were to come to oncology to have his stitches removed so they could begin chemo immediately. I said that my understanding was that chemo suppresses immunity and surely the burn had to heal before chemo, at which point they said they would do a skin graft (more time in hospital, more anaesthesia ... he has heart arrythymias under anaesthesia) and 14 days time kept quiet to heal. 

 

We went to our family vet,  (Nov. 7) when it was time to have the stitches removed, and she found us another oncologist, not affiliated with this University, who will treat him, when the burn is healed.

 

In the meantime, the burn is slowly healing, and he is learning to hop along pretty well, and has wonderful periods where he is very interested in his bumpers, tried to head to the pool (which is luckily closed and covered), and although very tired, much of the time, has some of his spark back.. which we are treasuring.

 

Managing the changing of dressings and cleaning the wounds, etc. has been a major challenge, but he has been an angel, letting us do it 4 times a day. 

 

We have opted not to have any surgery, and to let the burn heal., using various natural things to help... and they are working, as the vet is amazed that i.. we know it is risky, given the aggressiveness of the cancer; there were no spots on his lungs, but we know that the common knowledge from studies in vet journals we requested and were given, that it has probably some metasases (spelling looks wrong!?) somewhere, and in the meantime are using a number of herbal remedies given to us by the wholistic vet, giving him IP-6 and other supplements to help with the healing of the burn... and have a consult with a homeopathic vet lined up. Also looking into Artemensin, but not sure we can get it here ... 

 

What we need most is information on how to support his body during chemo. We have very mixed feelings about chemo., but to date, even the vets we have seens over the years, some of whom we called, who use Traditional Chinese Medicine and other modalities, agreed that it would be his best chance. 

 

We have one other dog, a female Schapendoes, who we adopted at age 9 1/2 from Quebec, because we had lost our other two IWS's ... one to lymphoma at 12 and one to hemangiosarcoma at 12 1/2, in the past two years since we moved from the city to the dream acreage in the country for the dogs.... Preso was not doing well as an only dog, and we knew an older bitch would be the best match for him... and Phoebe is just what he needed (and is even learning English.. probably because our ango-accented French is so awful!). 

 

Presto is now wearing a thunder shirt to hold the burn bandages in place, with vet wrap on top of that.. he became allergic to the vet wrap against his skin, and is finally not in so much pain from the burn... and lying by my feet, happy after his hop to the barn and back... and his just being here right now brings us joy. 

 

Thanks for any help or leads to places I might find more information that might be helfpul... 

Susan Rickwood - with Precious Presto
3 Paws 2 Train
Rockwood, Ontario

krun15
2
20 November 2012 - 7:42 pm
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Welcome to Tripawds, your future posts will not require moderation.

Gosh, Presto has been through it! Amputation is enough to deal with... I'm glad to hear the he is doing well now and is recovering.

Have you read through the Nutrition Blog? Lots of information there on diets and supplements to help cancer dogs.  Dr. Dressler's Cancer Kit also has info on nutrition and supplements.

Chemo is a personal decision.  I know that stats indicate a longer life with chemo- but some have done well without.  I have chosen to do chemo in one cancer situation, and chose not to do chemo in another.  You take everything into consideration and do what you think is best.  What I have seen here is that most pups handle chemo just fine, maybe some minor side effects.  My pug Maggie did 6 months of chemo for mast cell cancer and did pretty well.

Keep us posted on Presto's progress.

 

Karen and the pugapalooza

Sydney, Australia
Member Since:
13 September 2011
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20 November 2012 - 8:08 pm
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Oh gosh, poor Presto has really been through the wringer!  That is just awful.  I can't offer too much help on how to give extra support to the immune system during chemo. By seeing the natural vets it sounds like you are covering all your bases.  One of the dogs here had to stop chemo and wait quite a while before resuming due to burns suffered when chemo went wrong!  I think it was Duke?  Hopefully he will chime in.

 

Good luck. Please keep us posted.

 

Karen and Spirit Magnum

Magnum: 30th May 2002 to 5th May 2012. Lost her back left leg to osteosarcoma on 5th Sep 2011. Lung mets found on 20th Mar 2012 but it was bone mets in the hip that ended her brave battle. Magnum's motto - "Dream as if you'll live for ever, live as if you'll die today" (James Dean). Loyal, loving, courageous and spirited to the end. My beloved heart dog, see her memoirs from Rainbow Bridge ...... http://princess.....pawds.com/

Oakland, CA
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30 April 2012
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20 November 2012 - 11:07 pm
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Oh my goodness, what a nightmare!  I can't imagine that phone call.  That is just so, so scary.  I'm glad that he is starting to feel better and enjoy himself.

I agree with Karen - the nutrition blog and Dr. Dressler's book are very useful in getting an overview of what you can do with diet and supplements.  If you see treatments there that are of interest to you, you can take that info. to your holistic vet and come up with a comprehensive plan.

I hope that Presto continues to feel better!

Portage Lake, Maine
Member Since:
8 December 2009
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21 November 2012 - 6:07 am
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Oh Susan,

I'm so glad you finally posted Presto's story.  As I have told you before, it's bad enough to deal with the amputation but the burn!?!?!?  OMG...it makes me FUME just reading it all over again!

Please talk to Dr. Loops about your possibility of doing chemo and certainly, I'm sure, he'll have ideas/recommendations for Presto.

 

Tracy & Maggie

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

Member Since:
1 November 2012
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21 November 2012 - 8:23 am
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OMG Susan, Presto's story is like a real horror movie. Zambor also got his amputation in a university hospital here in Belgium because I was sure he was going to get the best attention, the best treatment possible. The operation was done by 2 professors assisted by 1 student, Presto's is probably done by students or professors that don't deserve to be called professor.

I really hope Presto is recovering well from this horror and feeling better. I think it was a good idea to wait until his burns have healed, because chemo should already have an impact on the regrowth of the fur after the operation, so certainly the healing of the skin would be impaired.

Normally my Zambor will start his chemo tomorrow and I cannot speak from experience myself, but that will change soon.

My thoughts will be with Presto.

Chris & Zambor

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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21 November 2012 - 8:51 am
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(SUSAN PLEASE NOTE: If you see this reply in your email notification, do not reply to your email, please come to http://tripawds.....mputation/ to reply to everyone's response. Right now your replies are not being seen by everyone because you are only replying to emails, which don't get posted here).

OH my gosh! What a story, I'm so sorry to hear that Presto and your pack have been through so much stress! It's hard to believe that you go in for one thing and leave with even more challenges. As hard as this it, an experience like it only makes us stronger and in the end, we can help others with what we've learned. Until then though, we are here to help however we can.

Building immune system support is one of the keys to staying strong during chemo. Have you seen our Tripawds Nutrition blog? There is lots of information about immune system support supplements like K9 Immunity, which many pups like me have used with great results. 

I hope this helps. Keep us posted!

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
8 November 2012
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21 November 2012 - 2:44 pm
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krun15 said
Welcome to Tripawds, your future posts will not require moderation.

Gosh, Presto has been through it! Amputation is enough to deal with... I'm glad to hear the he is doing well now and is recovering.

Have you read through the Nutrition Blog? Lots of information there on diets and supplements to help cancer dogs.  Dr. Dressler's Cancer Kit also has info on nutrition and supplements.

Chemo is a personal decision.  I know that stats indicate a longer life with chemo- but some have done well without.  I have chosen to do chemo in one cancer situation, and chose not to do chemo in another.  You take everything into consideration and do what you think is best.  What I have seen here is that most pups handle chemo just fine, maybe some minor side effects.  My pug Maggie did 6 months of chemo for mast cell cancer and did pretty well.

Keep us posted on Presto's progress.

 

Karen and the pugapalooza

krun15 said
Welcome to Tripawds, your future posts will not require moderation.

Gosh, Presto has been through it! Amputation is enough to deal with... I'm glad to hear the he is doing well now and is recovering.

Have you read through the Nutrition Blog? Lots of information there on diets and supplements to help cancer dogs.  Dr. Dressler's Cancer Kit also has info on nutrition and supplements.

Chemo is a personal decision.  I know that stats indicate a longer life with chemo- but some have done well without.  I have chosen to do chemo in one cancer situation, and chose not to do chemo in another.  You take everything into consideration and do what you think is best.  What I have seen here is that most pups handle chemo just fine, maybe some minor side effects.  My pug Maggie did 6 months of chemo for mast cell cancer and did pretty well.

Keep us posted on Presto's progress.

 

Karen and the pugapalooza

Thanks, Karen.. this is a test to see if I am "replying" correctly... I did it incorrectly earlier today, in several instances, and want to make sure this is how to do it... I only see an option to include the "quote" (i.e., item to which I am responding, it seems)...  Will write more then I am sure I am getting the hang of how this works. 

Susan Rickwood - with Precious Presto
3 Paws 2 Train
Rockwood, Ontario


Member Since:
22 August 2008
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21 November 2012 - 2:48 pm
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I am so sorry about the burn.  I am sure that your holistic vet is on top of that but I have had good luck using Silvadene cream and Adaptic bandages alternating with raw honey wraps.

As far as chemo my dog Tazzie did well with the carboplatin IV treatments.  I did give her fish oil as well as Power Mushrooms (immune stimulant).  I started artemisinin after the chemo.

Pam

Rock Hill, SC
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28 November 2011
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21 November 2012 - 3:02 pm
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3paws2train said 
Thanks, Karen.. this is a test to see if I am "replying" correctly... I did it incorrectly earlier today, in several instances, and want to make sure this is how to do it... I only see an option to include the "quote" (i.e., item to which I am responding, it seems)...  Will write more then I am sure I am getting the hang of how this works. 

Hi Susan.  If you look right below the last post on the screen, you will see two buttons side by side which say "Add Topic" and "Add Reply"  If you click on "Add Reply" it will open up a new box where you can type a new note/post.  When you are done typing your note, hit "the "Submit Reply" button below the box in which you are typing and your new reply will show up at the end of the list.  This will keep you from having to quote others in order to type a post!

Really sorry to hear of all the complications.  This diagnosis and the amp is enough to deal with without having more issues added to your plate.  Best of luck to your baby for an uneventful and quick recovery!

Lisa

Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11.  A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/

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8 November 2012
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21 November 2012 - 8:37 pm
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Thank you for the kind wishes, Lisa, and for the explanation of how to reply.

 

It takes an hour 4 x a day to change the dressings, clean the burn and re-wrap. and we just finished the last for the day, and I feel like I have run a marathon (and I am not a runner), so heading to bed, hoping for healing sleep for all of us. I am touched by all the caring here by so many people for so many others and their wonderful dogs... I have so much to learn, but made appts. today for physio and rehab and a homeopathic consult. 

 

I am trying to figure out how to get the Dr. D's kit since it can't be sent here, and when I was trialing I was always in New York State and had several friends who teasingly called themselves my UPS/FED EX depositories. Not able to do the same trips with this going on, so e-mailing people here who are going down to trials and shows to see if someone can collect it and the FitPaws things I need. 

 

It will work out, but I am concerned that every day  counts.. so feeling a bit anxious... but Presto had a pretty good day until about 6, then got very restless and wanted to go in and out... I think the burn is in an itchy phase, poor boy. 

 

Again, I appreciate the coaching, and all else that is obviously available here. 

Susan Rickwood - with Precious Presto
3 Paws 2 Train
Rockwood, Ontario

Member Since:
8 November 2012
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21 November 2012 - 8:42 pm
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Hmm, thought I was off to bed, having replied to the last post, but now notice that the reply box appears only after the last one, and not below those from other people which I would like to acknowledge... no hurry, but I obviously need advice on how to reply to things higher up in the thread than the most recent post. Thanks to all who have written in the meantime, until I know how to respond when there is not need for a private message... yikes, this is humiliating, but it just makes me laugh at myself, which, right now is a good thing! 

 

G'night and Happy Thanksgiving to those in the States... I hope that many of you are spending it with precious companions... 

Susan Rickwood - with Precious Presto
3 Paws 2 Train
Rockwood, Ontario

Rock Hill, SC
Member Since:
28 November 2011
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21 November 2012 - 8:53 pm
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3paws2train said
Hmm, thought I was off to bed, having replied to the last post, but now notice that the reply box appears only after the last one, and not below those from other people which I would like to acknowledge... no hurry, but I obviously need advice on how to reply to things higher up in the thread than the most recent post. Thanks to all who have written in the meantime, until I know how to respond when there is not need for a private message... yikes, this is humiliating, but it just makes me laugh at myself, which, right now is a good thing! 

 

G'night and Happy Thanksgiving to those in the States... I hope that many of you are spending it with precious companions... 

That's the only way to reply that I am aware of.  Your reply just shows up at the end.  Most of us read all of the posts, so we understand when you answer a post from above.  If you are responding to a particular comment, you can just mention that poster's name in your reply.

Or, your can click the "quote" button on the comment that you are replying to - it will then show their comment in the new box that opens for you and you can type your reply below the quote, hit submit, and it shows up as I have done here.

Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11.  A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/

krun15
14
21 November 2012 - 9:18 pm
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Hi Susan,
You have plenty on your mind, don't worry-you'll get the hang of things here. Lisa has you on the right track. You can't reply to individual posts within the forum, but the posts are sequential so it sort of tells a story. If you do want a 'behind the scenes' conversation with an individual member, then use the PM function.

Thanks for the good wishes on Thanksgiving. I will be sharing with lots of family and my two pugs.

Karen and the pugapalooza


Member Since:
30 October 2012
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22 November 2012 - 11:36 am
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Hey 3paws2train

 

Fellow Canadian here, i was able to order the Arte. from www.biovea.com/ca/en/and the K9 Immunity Plus through Amazon. ca.  I havent received it yet, but I just ordered it a few days ago.  Every other place i tried to order from told me that they could not ship to Canada. 

Hugs to you and Presto

 

Alison and Marlie

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