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3.5yrs post amp and another limb with a tumor
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15 February 2014 - 7:44 pm
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Hard to believe I have a reason to be posting in this forum subject again, but I just got news today from Chloe's vet that the tumor I discovered only a week ago contains spindle cells.  Earlier today I wrote a post about my thoughts and feelings about this possibility, but my feelings have changed since the vet has discussed the news with me.

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Quick history: Chloe was diagnosed with spindle cell sarcoma in her back left leg in July 2010.  Due to large tumor and being intwined to her leg ligaments, amputation was the best option. Local lymphnodes indicated the cancer had not spread and we had been living cancer free for the past 3.5 years. 

Yesterday was her 13th birthday and the day I took her to the vet to check out the lump that hadn't changed in a week. Because I had bad feelings, I had the vet do a full senior checkup (bloodwork, stool, urine, etc...) in addition to the lump aspirate.  Good news is that the bloodwork came back saying that she is still a healthy dog for her age. Bad news is that the lump has a good chance of being malignant.

Options

1. Do nothing. The vet said that since she is 13, healthy and comfortable, its a personal decision as to whether I do any follow up work.  

2. Surgical removal: If I wanted to proceed with surgery, that he recommend it gets biopsied first to get more information on the malignancy potential from the grade of the tumor.  Since this is another soft tissue sarcoma, there is the possibility that this can be removed with clean enough margins (even though it is on the top of her foot) to cure her and not require any follow up procedures.  She would have to be more closely monitored since she was also diagnosed with a grade 2/3 heart murmur, which they did a chest xray and found that she has a large heart for her size.  I knew she has always had a large heart, just not physically :)

My Thoughts

When faced with the possibility of cancer again, I had initially prepared myself to do nothing. What would the chances be that it would be another semi-treatable cancer like her previous? She is healthy and even with a low grade heart murmur would probably do fine with a surgery.  I told the vet I would think about it and get back to him when he is back in the office on Monday.  I plan to ask him if it would be possible to just forego the biopsy and go straight to removal to lump, take an aspirate of her lympnode while under and biopsy the removed tumor after. I want to minimize the amount of times she has to go to the vet.

Part of me wonders if the tumor would come back or not and if it did, I don't think it would be worth playing a cat and mouse game trying to keep removing it.  This would be the one shot and if it worked, great, if not, well as long as she is still healthy and happy, that's all I can ask for. Its hard to know how long she would live in either situation, whether the tumor wouldn't impair the time she had left or if removing it actually had a life prolonging effect (in a quality way, not just quantity).

I'll keep you all updated as events unfold. Thank you all again for being such a wonderful community to be a part of, through the good times and otherwise.

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Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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15 February 2014 - 8:15 pm
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Oh wowwwwww. I've been wanting to catch up on your post all day and just sat down when I saw you posted here too. I'm soooooo sorry you're dealing with this kind of decision again.

But, you do sound very confident in your decision, and I really like that. You've done your due diligence and you know in your heart what's best for her at this point. Nobody can say what will happen in the future, but for now, you seem really reassured that you're making the best choice for her so I'm really, really proud of you for reaching that point!

Whatever happens next we will absolutely be here for you. Chloe is such a survivor, she is a rock star in the Tripawds Universe and the apple of our eye. We will be thinking of you both so please let us know how things are going.

{{{{hugs}}}}}

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
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17 February 2014 - 3:16 pm
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2/17/14 UPDATE (1:24pm PST) long post warning...

Today I spoke with Chloe's vet about options such as removing it and then biopsy it after and he recommended I consult a surgeon first.  Aside: I'm sad that I've moved from the Santa Cruz area since her vet hospital there was able to do everything in house, rather than have to get referrals for surgical procedures (truly is convenient!!).

Thursday 5pm (2/20) my mom will take Chloe to a referred surgeon to examine the tumor and give us an idea of whether she thinks a surgeon (like herself) would be able to excise it with enough wide margins and not leave an open wound.

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Pros/Cons (things to discuss with Surgeon)

Straight to surgery: assume it is malignant (even low grade), attempt to get wide enough margins and be able to close it with enough skin. Biopsy it after and aspirate her nearest lymphnodes (while under) to see if it had spread (unlikely  with soft tissue malignancy). Pros = less visits to vet and best case scenario, its done in one swoop.  Cons = might not be able to get enough clean margins because it is on top of foot meaning she will have an open wound for weeks that requires multiple follow up visits in general and also has potential for getting infected.

Biopsy then maybe surgery: biopsy the tumor, find out if it is malignant, what grade and then undergo surgery with more information. If it turned out not malignant I could leave it or not require wide margins for excision.

Additional Previous and Current Tumor Info

The vet that did her amputation 3.5yrs ago told us it was spindle cell sarcoma, but her current vet from the same clinic said that the records say the specific spindle cell tumor type was "peripheral nerve sheath sarcoma".  My personal opinion is that it is highly likely the same type and that she must have a genetic predisposition for this type of tumor. Fortunately if this tumor is that same type and low grade again, if were to leave it, her life expectancy is 2 years. Downside is that this type can get grow to the point of being inoperable (right now it is small enough there is a chance) and potentially cause pain in that limb. Right now palpating it did not cause pain, nor does walking. Also, neither did her other tumor on her back leg, which was larger but too large to just excise.

 The vet said these types of tumors (he used a fancy word I dont remember) are unrelated, that she didn't have this potential cancerous tumor for the past 3.5yrs lurking from the previous.  They are independent occurrences.

My Thoughts

I'm going to see how the consultation goes, I'll phone in to be on speaker phone with my mom and Chloe at the surgeon's.  My hope is that they think it is possible to excise it with enough margins to be on the safe side under the assumption it is malignant and close without an open wound leftover.

If they do not think it is possible, I might consider getting it biopsied just to know how much time she would have left (based on type and grade). I'm just not sure I want to put the responsibility of caring for an open wound for weeks on my mom.  It is reminiscent of the reason why Rocket (Chloe's "sister" dog) passed. Rocket started out with an infected foot wart, that ended up getting some sort of super intense bacterial infection and even before it got the bacterial stuff, it was so difficult to manage 1. washing 2x/day 2. pills everyday 3. cone everyday (she sometimes got off) 4. vet visits every couple weeks and 5. Rocket not licking it every chance she got when the cone came off.  My mom did everything she could, but it was virulent and it got to the point where Rocket went downhill very fast and was in terrible pain. We had to let her go.  Granted Chloe's situation would be different and not due to another underlying condition, but I don't know how long in an ideal situation it would take for the wound to completely heal. 

If I went the biopsy only route and revealed it was the same type of cancer with a life expectancy of 2ish years, honestly that would be amazing. She is already 13 and still COMPLETELY healthy otherwise. That type of tumor is only locally invasive (just might cause pain and need meds later for that until its time to let her go). If it meant leaving the tumor and she live (healthily) to ~15, it would mean that not only did she thrive after an amputation at the age of 9.5yrs (which technically now has extended her life by 1.5yrs if life expectancy were ~2yrs in 2010) and live healthy, happy years with a second cancerous tumor, I would be absolutely blown away.  Even now with all we have gone through, she is still the most inspirational dog I've ever had, what a fighter! I love you my dear Chloe, I know you and my mom will take good care of each other until I find a different living situation where I can have you back by my side. And FYI Chloe (I told you this last night), but truly, my mom needs lots of your unconditional healing love with all she has gone through this past year. Please love her like you have loved me through grad school because she needs a wonderful spirit like you in her life right now.

Ok I'll post another update on Thursday after the appt. P.S. My mom is just awesome for supporting and helping me/chloe through this!

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Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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17 February 2014 - 5:26 pm
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Nicole,

Wow you analyze things so well! Sounds like all the bases are covered and no matter what happens when they go in to take a look, you'll have a good answer either way. I agree that if it's inoperable and a prognosis of 2 years is given, well that's really icing on the cake. And I do agree that a big open wound for your (amazing!) Mom to take care of is a tough thing to do. I would hesitate if I were in that situation as well.

Chloe is indeed one incredible, tough girl. We will be thinking of you on Thursday and hoping for the very best outcome possible. Please keep us posted.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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18 February 2014 - 9:12 am
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Yes I analyze things maybe a little too much..lol. But I'd rather have the most information possible to make the best informed decision, but at the same time still put the least amount of stress on my mom and Chloe.

Also, going to start Chloe on some K9 immunity ! Her vet said it wouldn't hurt to try, especially since she is in the early stages of diagnosis.  I think I remember reading our left rear amp buddy Maggie was on K9 immunity as one of her supplements as well (but also alot more since she saw a homeopathic type vet).

We shall see if we notice a difference for Chloe since she has a soft tissue sarcoma instead of osteosarcoma like many of the other pooches that use it. And yes I used the affiliate link, so you guys get a kick back winker

And my grandma (mom's mom that bought a Tripawds bandana from you guys 3.5yrs ago) also offered to help out in any way regarding Chloe's care.  I'm really blessed to have a family that supports Chloe and I so much, I thank them everyday for being so willing to help us through this time. 

Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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18 February 2014 - 10:52 am
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You're so funny Nicole! Well I agree, more info = more confidence in your choices. As for the K9 Immunity , thanks for shopping with us, you're so thoughtful!  Yep, Maggie did use magic mushrooms but she used Power Mushrooms. Same idea though (I know more about K9 Immunity 's purity and manufacturing process since we used it with Jerry, so I feel confident in saying that it's an excellent choice for any type of canine cancer). Here is a blog post about her treatment:

Maggie’s Guide to Fighting Cancer

I'd say that your Grandma, your Mom, everyone in your family is so good to Chloe through thick and thin, what a great pack!

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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20 February 2014 - 7:29 pm
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2/20/14 Update: Surgeon's Analysis of Tumor Removal

The vet surgeon outlined these options:

1. Maximum Tumor Removal with Open Wound: excise as much as possible with 1cm margins and leave open wound that would take ~2months to heal. Best option if no follow-up with radiation, since radiation cannot be performed on an open wound (anywhere from another 2.5-8 grand). Highly aggressive surgical approach.

2. Some Tumor Removal with Wound Closure: excise a large portion of the tumor with enough left over skin to close the wound. Best option for follow up radiation treatments.  Conservative surgical approach.

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My mom said she is willing to manage the open wound if I chose that route and considering the extraordinary cost of radiation, I'd rather cut off as much as possible now and give her the best chance in that scenario.  Also, the vet surgeon had a cardiologist listen to Chloe's heart murmur and diagnosed it as a grade 4-5.  The vet surgeon said that they perform surgeries on dogs with that grade heart murmur all the time and it is just a matter of changing the procedure.  She did recommend having Chloe getting an echocardiogram in order to diagnose the cause to get a better idea of how to proceed during surgery.  Result of that test was that it was ok for surgery. Atrial valve leakage, need to watch for coughing etc like I outlined before. Cardiologist says she doesn't need meds for it either.

Chloe will be going in for surgery tomorrow and depending on her recovery might be able to go home tomorrow evening. Biopsy results will be available about 5 days after her surgery, so late next week.

 

Outcomes we can secretly/openly hope:

1. Biopsy reveals its benign.  

2. Biopsy reveals low grade tumor with prognosis of ~2yrs since it will likely grow back.

3. Biopsy reveals low grade tumor and all microscopic cells were removed during surgery (nothing grows back).

Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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20 February 2014 - 7:45 pm
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Good Luck with Chloe's surgery tomorrow.  It seems like you have a wonderful plan for her treatment.

I will actively and openly hope and wish for any of the three biopsy result options that you listed.

 

Many hugs

 

Linda and Tucker

 

 

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21 February 2014 - 5:33 am
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Wow, you have such a great team! I love how all of the options have been outlined for you and Chloe. Your mom is pretty amazing to manage that level of care.

We are all hoping for the best and sending our love, please keep us posted.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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21 February 2014 - 1:41 pm
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2/21/14 Surgery Update:
Before 7am, my mom dropped Chloe off at the VCA hospital where the surgeon would remove the tumor when she had time. By 10:40am, my mom called saying that Chloe was done with surgery and that she did well. The tumor had spread to tendons in her paw, so they were removed. My mom asked if it would affect her ability to walk and the vet said it shouldn't. My mom then proceeded to ask (she is very silly) that if it meant Chloe could no longer flip people off and the vet said yes that would be the case. You gotta have some humor in this type of situation for sure.

Since the surgery was this morning, the vet said as long as she recovers well over the next few hours, my mom can pick her up 5-6pm tonight. Also, I got a tweet from another dog owner who said her dog underwent the same type of surgery and that the wound healed in a month. Hopefully that's the case for Chloe too, that she heals fast :)

I'll let you know how she does this weekend.

Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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21 February 2014 - 2:03 pm
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I'll bet Chloe can find a way to flip people off, Tripawds always figure things out! Haha, you're right, humor is always a plus when you're under such stress. But I'm glad everythign went well. Yay!!!!! She's just so amazing. Keep us posted!

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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21 February 2014 - 7:20 pm
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2/21/14 Evening Pick Up Update

My mom is now taking Chloe home.  She is panting alot (I can hear it even over the phone) from surgery med remnants, but it should subside in a couple hours.  My mom said she looks perky, albeit a bit loopy and able to pull on the leash to the car.  She will get a dose of pain meds tonight and as needed.

As for care, its pretty much the same as after an amputation, confined to a small area for 2 weeks and only walks to do her "dooty".  

Anecdotal Story

I posted a condensed version of this on my other blog and got a tweet back from another woman who had a dog that underwent a similar procedure a few years ago. In her case, the dog's open wound healed completely in a month and lived about another year before the tumor started to grow back.  In full the dog lived about another 1.5yrs and the owner said she felt the surgery was entirely worth it.

Alright I'll give another update at the end of the weekend after she's been at home for a couple days! 

Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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21 February 2014 - 7:32 pm
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Aww Chloe glad to hear you're home and getting the lovin' you need for a great recovery! Stay strong, we're cheering you all over the planet! xoxo

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
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23 February 2014 - 7:07 pm
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2/23/14 Chloe Home Recovery Update

Chloe finally pooped today (yay!). Some of the meds related to the surgery slow the metabolism, so it can take a couple days...

Walking: Chloe stays her RuffWear harness, so that when she needs to pee (she whines), my mom can help her outside. She does have a little more trouble walking on her own, probably because it is still sore. She really wants to be on the couch and she has a hard time as it is with 3 working legs, so my mom helps her up when she whines to get up.

Diet: Chloe LOVES the K9 Immunity soft chews! She wants to eat those more than her regular food (even when chicken mixed in). A result of the surgery post meds.

Next Appt:  Tomorrow she goes back to VCA to get it rewrapped. If it is healing well, then she won't have to go back for 5 days. 

Funny Story: Asieke (the siamese cat) brought Chloe a moth last night, which proceeded to crawl all over her.  I think its cute that he makes an effort to show love to her, in the only way a cat knows how by bringing a flying treat.

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Chloe became a rear amp tripawd on 7-29-10. Another tumor was removed on front leg 2-20-14. Found 3rd tumor on neck 2-2015, but she's still kicking cancer's butt at age 14. Chloe's blog

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23 February 2014 - 10:04 pm
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Oh my goodness! I just caughtuponll of Magnificent Chloe's posts! What a special girl with a very special advocate in yoju! You also have very special Mom and Grandma!! Love and compassin run strong in your family!!

I just watched the beautiful tribute to Rocket (with co-star the lovey Chloe) and fo dit so very touching. Beautiful tribute to a beautiful sweet soul.

Sending a bundle of healng energy to gentle...yet very strong and determined...Chloe! Keep on keepingon! Lookng forward toyour next update AND pictures! She's so pretty!

Hugs t all...and the sweet gift giving kitty too!

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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