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Laser therapy for arthritis when OSA has metastasized
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Member Since:
25 March 2012
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13 February 2013 - 6:36 am
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Hi everyone. Has anyone used cold laser therapy for arthritis and / or sore muscles on a dog whose osteosarcoma has metastasized? My dog Charlie's holistic vet is Dr. Karen Becker who is very well-respected in the field of integrative medicine. She recommend laser therapy for Charlie's elbows and also to help him heal after a slip on the ice in January. But a well-respected practitioner of laser therapy says it can cause the cancer, which has already spread to Charlie's lungs and skin, to spread even more. Yet there are other doctors who are offering to perform laser therapy knowing he has cancer, without any cautions. Since there is even a hint that it can worsen his condition I do not think we will proceed. But I was hoping fellow Tripawd parents might also have some feedback.

As additional information, Charlie takes glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, ubiquinol, EFAC+, and probably other supplements as part of his daily protocol (many have multiple purposes) to help keep his joints healthy. He participates in swim therapy, has regular chiropractic adjustments and acupuncture during which arthritis is addressed. Charlie is a black lab who turns ten years old on March 2.

Columbia, MO
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10 December 2011
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13 February 2013 - 7:10 am
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My Daisy is a tripawd due to arthritis.  Daisy suffered a knee injury and one of my vets (she's a certified rehab practitioner) used cold laser therapy on her knee.  As we were talking about how the cold laser works she told me that cold laser should not be used if cancer is present because it will stimulate the cancer cells as well.

Marla and Daisy

My Two Tripawds...Biscuit and Spirit Daisy

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25 March 2012
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13 February 2013 - 8:19 am
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Thank you Marla and Daisy!!!! Is the laser therapy helping Daisy? I've heard great things. But I don't think putting Charlie at risk for more problems is worth it. As it is, the cancer is spreading too quickly without any help. Thank you so much for the feedback!!

Cathi & Charlie

Columbia, MO
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13 February 2013 - 9:30 am
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Yes.  I think it was worth it.  We did a total of 10 sessions back in October/November.  I'm lucky that my vets are pretty reasonable with their prices.  It was only $10 per treatment with the 1st one free.  Can't beat that for giving Daisy some relief.  Dr. Terry also lasered her other joints and hips while she was at it.  I am considering doing it periodically to help her joint inflammation.

If it was me and Daisy was dealing with cancer I would have not done it.  Don't think the benefit outweighs the possible risk.  Sounds like you are already doing good things to help Charlie's arthritis.

I have never tried the swimming therapy with Daisy because I don't think I could get her to do it.  She's quite the chicken little. Our vet school here offers that but she is not a swimmer (only likes to wade in the lake at the dog park) but I know it is really good for arthritis.

Daisy also gets glucosomine and chronditin w/MSM and and NSAID daily for inflammation and pain.

Hope Charlie's pulled muscle starts feeling better soon!

Marla and Daisy

My Two Tripawds...Biscuit and Spirit Daisy

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13 February 2013 - 10:32 am
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Great question! You've run into a common dilemma about cold laser in dogs. We have heard this subject debated before, and believe that with so many other therapies out there, like acupuncture, why take any chances? Go with your gut feeling.

 

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

New Haven, CT
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27 December 2012
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13 February 2013 - 1:25 pm
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Jackson's cousin gets cold laser therapy for her arthritis and it's helping.  They're very happy with it.

I think one of the (if not The) modality for cold laser therapy is that it increases metabolism at the site(s) - this is largely blood flow, including all the goodies that come with bloodflow.  For a normal, healthy (ie, non-cancer) patient, I think that's a great idea. 

BUT, for a cancer pet, do we want to increase metabolism at the site?  I bet there are vets who will be on both sides of this.  But, as per my rudimentary physiology/physics understanding, cold laser therapy to site where cancer is or may arrive could be detrimental.

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!

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13 February 2013 - 3:10 pm
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Marla and Daisy - Wow! $10 a session is a GREAT rate! Good for you! I am happy to hear that it was worth it.  I wonder if she might warm up to swim therapy once she tries it?  At the facility where we swim they have awesome floaty vests and even neck wraps to help the dogs who cant keep their heads and ears up.  The water is warm for therapeutic benefits, which Charlie isn' t too thrilled about, but dogs who aren't thrilled with cold water might think it is great! At first Charlie was not too thrilled about the "elevator" that lowers and raises him into the pool, but he has gotten used to it.  He thinks of it as a fun adventure, not therapy.  That makes it fun for everyone.  Of course it sounds like you have a great treatment plan going even without it.  Thank you for saying you wouldn't have done it if Daisy had cancer.  It helps to have other people affirm my decision.  Even though I am sure I am doing the right thing, it is still nice to hear.  So thank you!

 

Hi Jerry :)   I'm so sorry if this topic is redundant.  I searched forums, at least I thought I did, but I was not able to find anything regarding arthritis.  I have to admit I am not the greatest at navigating Tripawds.com sometimes, especially because I usually do it on my iPhone.  Thank you for encouraging me to go with my gut! You are right, with so many other therapies in Charlie's treatement plan, I think it is best to not risk even more cancer.

 

Hi fetchon3 - Wow! I read Jackon's story. What a shock to get the cancer diagnosis when you thought it was an ACL repair.  I am happy that he is doing so well.  Thank you for your comments about laser therapy.  From what I know, which of course is not everything, you are correct - increasing blood flow to the laser site is exactly the concern.  Since Charlie's cancer has metastasized in non-traditional sites already (several bumps on his skin have been diagnosed as osteocarcoma) I don't want to risk it.  Thank you for stating that there are probably good arguments on both sides, but in the end it seems like it might be detrimental.  I am so fortunate to have an excellent "cancer team" of incredible doctors for Charlie.  But with so many experts come so many different opinions.  I have to rememeber that I know him better than anyone, and I need to advocate for what I think will be the best for him.

New Haven, CT
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13 February 2013 - 6:15 pm
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If Charlie is getting such good care, even from so many vets, I guess go with what they recommend.  I'm happy to read he's got quite the team and is swimming!  Very cool.  Very Important Pet indeed!  Have you tried Adequan (I think that's how it's spelled) or the DogGonePain (DGP) medicine/supplement?  Folks here seem to love it.  I also have been looking into more MSM for Jackson and you can get MSM from Walgreens, GNC, etc.  So if Charlie is already on a joint supplement but without MSM, it can be cheaper to give another pill rather than buy a joint supplement with it - especially if you want/need larger doses.  Roughly for a 60lb dog, 400-500mg is good, but up to 1000mg is also OK.

Yes, when Jackson was scheduled for his ACL repair, the first phone call we got launched me into a series of hours that make up some of the worst hours of my life.  To hear in succession that the Xrays were abnormal...it may be cancer...consulting with a specialist...need to amputate...  I had no idea what the frick just happened.  I'm so thankful we decided to go through with the ACL surgery (we weren't convinced we were going to do it right away), as it might have been months longer before we all realized it was (also) cancer.  The thinking was that the cancer, growing there at his knee, was weakening the joint.  So lots of fetch and BAM, tore the ACL.  Damn cancer.  But like most pups here, now without the ACL tear and the tumor, he's doing really well and moving all over the place!  He's handling chemo like it's saline and no side effects at all.  We're as happy as we can be, minus a leg and with cancer....  Thanks for your sympathies.  It was an awful, awful day.

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!

On The Road


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13 February 2013 - 11:10 pm
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Labbies & Tabbies said
Hi Jerry :)   I'm so sorry if this topic is redundant.  I searched forums, at least I thought I did, but I was not able to find anything regarding arthritis.  I have to admit I am not the greatest at navigating

Oh my gosh no apologies necessary! We are all about sharing information and helping each other out. You're not being redundant.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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